Re: Tone really is in the hands of the player.

AD3THREE wrote:

Blues jr is working for me.  I'm pretty sure even if I had enough money to buy a Custom Shop instrument I'd still sound about the same.  Sure instruments will inspire you differently but I've never played an instrument that I truly felt was better then a like wise model in a standard model.  The jump from squire to American Standard these days its huge but American Standard to custom shop?  Its not that much of an upgrade imho.  Tone is in the hands and if you have it and decent guitar (which Squire is plenty decent) then you have all the tools you need.

Agreed the tone , feel and approach is all in the hands. The gear helps also but you need the hands to make the gear work.
Cheers Ron

"Joe B saved my soul, forever grateful Ron"
"Some people dream of worthy accomplishments while others stay awake and do them"
Skinner #1,JBLP 145(aged),252, (unaged),#285HM, Bburst #026, Joes 052 BCC black LP, Strat> RT,EC Gilmour,Beck,Lenny LP> PK 83,CC#2,3,4,9,Amps>Carol Ann RAH JB-100 SN 001,JB100 Red SN02,OD2, OD3,Tucana 2&3 Triptix,Twinkle land, Plexi ,JB Jub, Jubs,Plexi,Satch,Two Rock>others

Re: Tone really is in the hands of the player.

ok heres my take.

the tone in the video i think is actually very good.....and sort has that robben ford vibe going on.  so no issues there.

as for some of the other comments made about waiting to buy that PRS until you practice more etc i just dont agree with......people collect cars but arent race car drivers, they collect guns but arent in an industry that requires them and on and on and on.

it does make sense to be able to play at a high level to have high level gear but as long as someone has the money to collect and thats what they want to do then i'm fine with it.

my experiences over the years is that most of the entry level guitars i have picked up are not very good instruments......they feel cheap and they require extreme setup manipulations to get them to a comfortable playing position.  however, from time to time you may find one that came off the line better than some of the others and plays pretty nice....just like you may find a PRS that came off a little better than another PRS....it just happens.

but overall, i still believe you get what you pay for.....but regardless of name or price i play all guitars extensively before buying it so that i know it feels right for my hands.  and once it does then i buy it.

Re: Tone really is in the hands of the player.

The question is, then, why every get anything more than one guitar if this is true? Why have more than one amp? Why have pedals at all? People are blowing a lot of money on this stuff if it doesn't matter. Of course, the best hammer in the world is no good if the buyer has no idea how to use it.

I'm convinced "tone" is really in the ears of the listener. Guy playing the Squier sounded good to us. We heard the tone. The player him/herself hears the tone - and the listeners hear it too. If the tone sucks, the player has two options... get more lessons, and/or buy different gear.

- Nic from Detroit... posting on JB's Forum since 6-2-2006
Ask me about my handwound Great Lakes Guitar Pickups
Since 2010, Bonamassa fans have taken advantage of my JB friend discount = my cost + shipping. cool

Re: Tone really is in the hands of the player.

NPB_EST.1979 wrote:

The question is, then, why every get anything more than one guitar if this is true? Why have more than one amp? Why have pedals at all? People are blowing a lot of money on this stuff if it doesn't matter. Of course, the best hammer in the world is no good if the buyer has no idea how to use it.

I'm convinced "tone" is really in the ears of the listener. Guy playing the Squier sounded good to us. We heard the tone. The player him/herself hears the tone - and the listeners hear it too. If the tone sucks, the player has two options... get more lessons, and/or buy different gear.

It's called sales driven marketing. Otherwise buy that shite squire and a cheap modeling amp and your there.

Re: Tone really is in the hands of the player.

I guesss great tone has its price.

Re: Tone really is in the hands of the player.

masque wrote:

as for some of the other comments made about waiting to buy that PRS until you practice more etc i just dont agree with......people collect cars but arent race car drivers, they collect guns but arent in an industry that requires them and on and on and on.
it does make sense to be able to play at a high level to have high level gear but as long as someone has the money to collect and thats what they want to do then i'm fine with it.
my experiences over the years is that most of the entry level guitars i have picked up are not very good instruments......they feel cheap and they require extreme setup manipulations to get them to a comfortable playing position.  however, from time to time you may find one that came off the line better than some of the others and plays pretty nice....just like you may find a PRS that came off a little better than another PRS....it just happens.

I agree with you. My first really really really good guitar was an 89 PRS actually. Still have it. And yes it did encourage me to play more furthered my musical journey. I'm just to the point now where I have several guitars and they're all what I would consider to be high-end guitars. Still on the hunt for a 333/35/45/55 and firebird but until then I try and stay away from the urge of buying something I basically already have. And therefore I have plenty to practice with and improve with until I buy another.

And believe me, I'm all for collecting cool stuff no matter if it gets used or not!

25 (edited by ZeyerGTR 2012-09-05 18:06:53)

Re: Tone really is in the hands of the player.

A great player is going to sound great through pretty much anything, but that doesn't mean all guitars are equivalent.  My ears can tell the difference between a swamp ash strat and a mahogany strat.  It doesn't make one good and one bad, and it doesn't mean I magically sound like a different player on one or the other, but they're different and the tone will be different.  If I'm good, I can make both sound good, not necessarily the same.  Hopefully when play I still sound like me on any guitars, but there's still a reason I pick up the Suhr versus a strat versus a Les Paul for a given part.  I guess in the end I'm saying "tone is in the hands" and "different guitars/amps have different tones" are not mutually exclusive.  Both are true.  I think the phrase should be "good tone is in the hands" (although I'd also argue it starts in your ears) is more accurate.

I've played some cheap Squires that I liked and thought were fine guitars, but I'm not going to trade my custom-built Suhr for one.  My ears can tell the difference, and my hands can feel the difference.  I've never played a guitar that sounded and played like my Suhr - it's night and day, even compared to guitars I really like, and even compared to other Suhrs.  Maybe to the listener the difference is negligible, but to my ears and my hands, it's a huge difference and that's what matters to me.  Does a nice gear make me a better musician?  No.

Re: Tone really is in the hands of the player.

I know that Joe has said in several interviews that while a lot of different amps might sound the same to us, the ones he prefers "feel" different to him when he's playing through them, and that in turn influences his playing.  Same with guitars.  That's the sort of thing that makes most of these conversations moot, isn't it?

I love my Baja Tele, but I'm sure Joe would spot all kinds of ways in which it is inferior to one of his vintage Teles, even if I can't.  He'd sound great on my Baja, because he's Joe (duh), but there are reasons he's on stage with that vintage '54, even if we can't quantify those differences...

Joe's hands are fabulous (I could watch his right hand alone for hours, learning stuff), but that isn't the end of the story...

Terrance Shuman
New Castle, DE

Re: Tone really is in the hands of the player.

Coach, I too own a Baja Tele and let me tele you (get it?) those are the best guitars coming out of the mexico factory right now as far as Telecasters are concerned.  I have played custom shop tele's before that don't play as good as my Baja, we are talking a $3000 instrument here... and it was crap, although it did sound nice and wasn't as 60 cycle hum noise as my Baja.  I guess there is lemons in every crowd!

Re: Tone really is in the hands of the player.

AD3THREE wrote:

Coach, I too own a Baja Tele and let me tele you (get it?) those are the best guitars coming out of the mexico factory right now as far as Telecasters are concerned.

Agreed!  The fat neck sealed the deal for me, but the pickup combo (Twisted Tele neck/Broadcaster bridge, for the uninitiated) was a close second.  And, as I'm sure you've noticed, our humble Baja's pickup combo has started showing up on some higher-end Fenders lately, too...   wink

Terrance Shuman
New Castle, DE

Re: Tone really is in the hands of the player.

Whatever floats your boat is still a valid statement smile When I decided after 20 something years that I finally need a Tele. I went through 15 something, including Squires, regardless the color, pricing, pickups, origin to find "my guitar" out of the bunch. An US made special did it for me, with a MIM being close second. Don't care whether it's made on the moon as long as it sounds, plays good to ME. Usually turns out that you get what you pay for, though (there might be exceptions smile ).

Re: Tone really is in the hands of the player.

true that.

but if feeling in fine art is (for example) in the hands, having only one paint brush, color, or canvas makes your options extremely limited.

Playing different guitars or amps can be inspiring. enough to play something new or (if you're not that good) to pick it up and play more. If all I had was a Fender Squier, I probably would not be inspired to play guitar as frequently.

- Nic from Detroit... posting on JB's Forum since 6-2-2006
Ask me about my handwound Great Lakes Guitar Pickups
Since 2010, Bonamassa fans have taken advantage of my JB friend discount = my cost + shipping. cool

Re: Tone really is in the hands of the player.

ZeyerGTR wrote:

A great player is going to sound great through pretty much anything, but that doesn't mean all guitars are equivalent.  My ears can tell the difference between a swamp ash strat and a mahogany strat.  It doesn't make one good and one bad, and it doesn't mean I magically sound like a different player on one or the other, but they're different and the tone will be different.  If I'm good, I can make both sound good, not necessarily the same.  Hopefully when play I still sound like me on any guitars, but there's still a reason I pick up the Suhr versus a strat versus a Les Paul for a given part.  I guess in the end I'm saying "tone is in the hands" and "different guitars/amps have different tones" are not mutually exclusive.  Both are true.  I think the phrase should be "good tone is in the hands" (although I'd also argue it starts in your ears) is more accurate.

I've played some cheap Squires that I liked and thought were fine guitars, but I'm not going to trade my custom-built Suhr for one.  My ears can tell the difference, and my hands can feel the difference.  I've never played a guitar that sounded and played like my Suhr - it's night and day, even compared to guitars I really like, and even compared to other Suhrs.  Maybe to the listener the difference is negligible, but to my ears and my hands, it's a huge difference and that's what matters to me.  Does a nice gear make me a better musician?  No.

well said!

Re: Tone really is in the hands of the player.

actually this all comes down to money like in any hobby or profession that requires you to "buy" something to perform it.

pro golfers dont use "beginner" sets from kmart......they use topline stuff.

pro fishermen use gloomis poles not some crap $10 pole from the flea market.

pro tennis players use top of the line rackets not the $15 rackets from wal-mart.

pro guitar players use top of the line guitars that are either hand made or vintage.

there are exceptions to the rule in every case mentioned above. and those "pros" could use cheaper stuff and still play well at what they do.  but when you get to the point that you can have anything you like there's a reason these folks get the top line stuff......because 99% of the time it's better......it either sounds better or feels better or looks better or a combo of all those things.

does anybody here actually believe that Joe needed a 59 les paul?  he has a collection of stuff that is unbelievable but he got what he wanted and maybe to the average listener they wouldnt know if he's playing a 59 les paul or a 2012 epiphone on a recording but having the 59 does something for Joe and that's enough to make him pull the trigger.

and let em tell you if I had the money i would own a 59 les paul as well......my experience over the years is that the people that usually "trash" high end gear and proclaim the "awesomeness" of cheap gear are the people that really cant afford to own the nicer stuff.

i am in no way bad mouthing folks that cant afford high end stuff because there were many many years in my life I couldnt either and I was playing knock off guitars thru cheap amps.  but i always thought the high end stuff was great.......and I remember buying my first really nice guitar....a PRS custom 22 and i financed it thru a hole in the wall finance company at about 35% interest but I made every dang payment and to this day that guitar is still one of my prized possessions from a music standpoint.

at the end of the day what I'm saying is that i like the high end stuff because to me most of the time it feels, looks and sounds better.....but I am open to owning anything and if i run across something cheaper that "does it" for me I dont hesitate to own and use it.

Re: Tone really is in the hands of the player.

It's too bad you gearheads aren't passionate about the subject.  tongue

Play like you've worked at it, and don't worry about sounding like your influences.  You can't cheat on them, or your practice, anyway.  If you've worked hard at your skill, your audience will know it.

Re: Tone really is in the hands of the player.

lol

Re: Tone really is in the hands of the player.

JBFan4Life wrote:

It's too bad you gearheads aren't passionate about the subject.  tongue

Indeed...   wink

Terrance Shuman
New Castle, DE

Re: Tone really is in the hands of the player.

My 1997 Squier with Fender Custom Shop 62's does the trick just fine!! smile