Topic: Tone really is in the hands of the player.

Check out this live show by the great Jack Pearson:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BM41sMAr … ure=relmfu

Fender Squier that cost him 91 bucks, stock, played through a blues jr.

Amp: Firebird Musical Amplifiers
Guitars:62 LP SG , 02 FB VII, JB FB I, 76 Electra Omega, 64 Firebird V, 73 LPC, 61 Custom Tele, 59 and 60 Melody Maker
Effects: Mythos Chupacabra, Strymon Deco/Flint

Re: Tone really is in the hands of the player.

I know that's some fine playing, but people are all set to shoot down guitars like this...I have my first Squier still...it sounds great. I've played some 80s Squiers that I would choose over the USA Standards. Most guitars today are a total and utter rip. There's no two ways about it. Get a good solid guitar you're happy with and get gigging...have fun. There are millions of guitars out there...and most now...are very good. Improve the playing before buying that PRS.

Re: Tone really is in the hands of the player.

Totally agree!  I've bought some cheaper guitars like this before and love them.  My old Squire I bought from a yard sale (remember I'm from the south we sale crap we don't want in our yard) for $50 and it was an 80's squire.  The neck was like a baseball bat and the pickups were crap or so I thought.  Cleaned the pots and the switch and it sound very good.  I kept this guitar around for alternate tunings mostly but it was as good as any Fender Standard Mexico model and better in a lot of ways.

4 (edited by macg1 2012-08-27 16:12:09)

Re: Tone really is in the hands of the player.

Yeah I still have my 1995 Squier (MIM model with the Squier Series word printed in tiny letters are the end of the headstock).  I replaced the PUP's with Lace Sensors in 96.  Still gets  a lot of play.

Amp: Firebird Musical Amplifiers
Guitars:62 LP SG , 02 FB VII, JB FB I, 76 Electra Omega, 64 Firebird V, 73 LPC, 61 Custom Tele, 59 and 60 Melody Maker
Effects: Mythos Chupacabra, Strymon Deco/Flint

Re: Tone really is in the hands of the player.

I'm also a firm believer that "Made in USA" stamps don't seem to always mean the guitar is a gem.. Have played some Indonesian made Ibanezs that sucked as far as feel but the Korean ones felt fine and played rather nice. Same thing with, and especially with the Squiers. Have picked up a few and thought they seemed fine to me as far as overall feel.

And DAVE is exactly correct! Sometimes when I get the itch to want another guitar, I remind myself that I already have a closet full of ones that I need to learn to play much more efficiently first!

Re: Tone really is in the hands of the player.

usa doesn't always mean the best , my jb gold aged custom shop top was not the best gibson iv ever owned , (now sold)!! sorry joe!

Re: Tone really is in the hands of the player.

Now that's fantastic playing, but in whole honesty the tone simply doesn't hold, sorry. I agree there are a number of excellent low cost guitars and amps, but you get what you pay for.

Re: Tone really is in the hands of the player.

synchu wrote:

Now that's fantastic playing, but in whole honesty the tone simply doesn't hold, sorry. I agree there are a number of excellent low cost guitars and amps, but you get what you pay for.

There is some truth to this, because the elements of tone are a complex thing.  First there is the player and how he/she "hears" the music.  Then there is attack, and how a player feels that day, and about the music, as related to the way the note choices take place and how hard the strings are hit.  Of course, the choice of picks and/or playing finger-style.  By the time we get to this part of the equation of tone, well, I think 85-90% of it is covered.  The rest of it certainly influences the tone as well; I play LP style guitars much differently than Strat/Tele guitars; this may be because of bias in terms of historical sounds, but things like fret height and fretboard radius (not so much material), and neck shape make a giant difference in how i play the instrument.  Then there is amp choice, and whether or not pedals are used, which could take and has taken a giant amount of time in this forum alone.  We love that discussion!!  I think that the recording in the video is not the best and that if you were out on the crowd, watching and listening with your eyes closed, meaning, without a brand bias, you would be floored and not question the choice of gear for that day.  I happen to know Jack owns several nice Gibsons and G&L's, and also owns/plays through nice boutique stuff.  Did he sound his best that day?  Maybe, maybe not, but nobody with open ears can sit here and say "his tone was bad".  I think in the general case scenario, a great expensive guitar, and a great expensive amp, become altogether a great expensive banner of how good a player is.  Put a great player behind great gear, you get greatness; put a mediocre player behind great gear, he/she will still sound mediocre, but just more "loudly". 

i think we also have a visual bias.  a lot of us, not all of us, but a good majority (you know out there in the world and not necessarily here) we see great gear and we think "that sounds great".  I am blessed that through the years I have owned a lot of great stuff, that has come and gone and nowadays i only have what i need and use.  I remember in the 90's I used to go see bands, and if they had great gear I would not even listen, because it meant they were not playing hard enough (you know, at local club shows).  I was wrong then, and constantly learn. 

I plugged my old Fender Squier in just yesterday for some pedal reviews I am doing, and granted over the years i "improved" it.  Lace Sensors went it, then vintage style locking tuners, and a vintage bridge and large trem block, upgraded.  But ultimately, beside the pickups, the improvements did change the tone (at least the sonic aspect of it), but not how it played and made me feel on the hands. 

whoa... I just ranted a bit.  not an angry rant though, but just wanted to share some of my points and things i have learned after playing guitar for over 25 years.

Amp: Firebird Musical Amplifiers
Guitars:62 LP SG , 02 FB VII, JB FB I, 76 Electra Omega, 64 Firebird V, 73 LPC, 61 Custom Tele, 59 and 60 Melody Maker
Effects: Mythos Chupacabra, Strymon Deco/Flint

Re: Tone really is in the hands of the player.

There's a lot to be said for a good fret dress, action, and overall setup too. If that Squier wasn't setup well, it would probably sound like butt.

Word is, Keith Urban got his record deal playing Squiers.

- Nic from Detroit... posting on JB's Forum since 6-2-2006
Ask me about my handwound Great Lakes Guitar Pickups
Since 2010, Bonamassa fans have taken advantage of my JB friend discount = my cost + shipping. cool

10 (edited by synchu 2012-08-31 15:11:12)

Re: Tone really is in the hands of the player.

I'll give you the exact formula and it's free:
The tone is 62.5% the player, 33.456% the amp, 3.88699% engineering skill and 2.48827789749% down to whether venus is in capricorn and a dwarven-goblin-fish-monster walks counter clockwise around a mandrake root at midnight... And that's for the really great players, cause it makes more than 100 wink
Now, joking aside, next year will be my 25 year since I started and I owned and still own cheap instruments, amps, effects that do sound great,but this particular clip doesn't sound good to me. Maybe it is me:) YMMV. Else, I do fully agree that tone is mostly in the players hands. Gear - Whatever makes you happy. At the end it's the music, not the tools.

11 (edited by cindyron 2012-08-31 15:14:20)

Re: Tone really is in the hands of the player.

macg1 wrote:

Check out this live show by the great Jack Pearson:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BM41sMAr … ure=relmfu

Fender Squier that cost him 91 bucks, stock, played through a blues jr.

Sorry but this is just my two cents I think the tone is not good. Perhaps in this case a good player is playing a not properly set up guitar. But hey what I think is good can be crap to others so ........

"Joe B saved my soul, forever grateful Ron"
"Some people dream of worthy accomplishments while others stay awake and do them"
Skinner #1,JBLP 145(aged),252, (unaged),#285HM, Bburst #026, Joes 052 BCC black LP, Strat> RT,EC Gilmour,Beck,Lenny LP> PK 83,CC#2,3,4,9,Amps>Carol Ann RAH JB-100 SN 001,JB100 Red SN02,OD2, OD3,Tucana 2&3 Triptix,Twinkle land, Plexi ,JB Jub, Jubs,Plexi,Satch,Two Rock>others

Re: Tone really is in the hands of the player.

90% (or a high percentage) of the tone is in the hands and yes he is a fine player. He could be much better sounding with better gear.

Where the hell does one get a black-backed gold top anyway?

Re: Tone really is in the hands of the player.

I wish my tone was that bad!! LOL

Re: Tone really is in the hands of the player.

stefanhauk wrote:

I wish my tone was that bad!! LOL


yep! funny thing is that I bet if it was JB doing the same thing that everyone here would say "OMG no matter what JB plugs into it sounds amazing and just like his tone and blah blah blah"... sigh.  my level of annoyance with this kind of behavior really has reduced my visits to this forum from a daily basis, to a weekly basis.  doesn't matter really in the grand scheme of things.  turning into TGP this is.

Amp: Firebird Musical Amplifiers
Guitars:62 LP SG , 02 FB VII, JB FB I, 76 Electra Omega, 64 Firebird V, 73 LPC, 61 Custom Tele, 59 and 60 Melody Maker
Effects: Mythos Chupacabra, Strymon Deco/Flint

Re: Tone really is in the hands of the player.

macg1 wrote:
stefanhauk wrote:

I wish my tone was that bad!! LOL


yep! funny thing is that I bet if it was JB doing the same thing that everyone here would say "OMG no matter what JB plugs into it sounds amazing and just like his tone and blah blah blah"... sigh.  my level of annoyance with this kind of behavior really has reduced my visits to this forum from a daily basis, to a weekly basis.  doesn't matter really in the grand scheme of things.  turning into TGP this is.

That is very true.

Re: Tone really is in the hands of the player.

macg1 wrote:
stefanhauk wrote:

I wish my tone was that bad!! LOL


yep! funny thing is that I bet if it was JB doing the same thing that everyone here would say "OMG no matter what JB plugs into it sounds amazing and just like his tone and blah blah blah"... sigh.  my level of annoyance with this kind of behavior really has reduced my visits to this forum from a daily basis, to a weekly basis.  doesn't matter really in the grand scheme of things.  turning into TGP this is.

Not sure I get your point? Doing the same thing?

"Joe B saved my soul, forever grateful Ron"
"Some people dream of worthy accomplishments while others stay awake and do them"
Skinner #1,JBLP 145(aged),252, (unaged),#285HM, Bburst #026, Joes 052 BCC black LP, Strat> RT,EC Gilmour,Beck,Lenny LP> PK 83,CC#2,3,4,9,Amps>Carol Ann RAH JB-100 SN 001,JB100 Red SN02,OD2, OD3,Tucana 2&3 Triptix,Twinkle land, Plexi ,JB Jub, Jubs,Plexi,Satch,Two Rock>others

Re: Tone really is in the hands of the player.

macg1 wrote:

turning into TGP this is.

Over-generalizing you are...   wink

Seriously, even a fictional character like Yoda would be able to tell this place is NOT like TGP.  Just because a couple of posters didn't think the player's tone was all that doesn't mean anything.  And there's a reason (several, in fact) most of the best players don't play Squier guitars through Blues Jr. amps.  Doesn't mean Jack's not a fine player (he obviously is)...

Terrance Shuman
New Castle, DE

Re: Tone really is in the hands of the player.

Blues jr is working for me.  I'm pretty sure even if I had enough money to buy a Custom Shop instrument I'd still sound about the same.  Sure instruments will inspire you differently but I've never played an instrument that I truly felt was better then a like wise model in a standard model.  The jump from squire to American Standard these days its huge but American Standard to custom shop?  Its not that much of an upgrade imho.  Tone is in the hands and if you have it and decent guitar (which Squire is plenty decent) then you have all the tools you need.