Re: New F1 season kicks off this weekend

Hope Sergios ok, that was a big impact. Had a horrible feeling when those sheets came out and there was no movement from the onboard camera.  sad

I can say from personal experience that those plastic crash cells hurt, never been able to tell why they dont have tyres there instead.

shame it put an end to Lewis' challenge to Vettel, would have been nice to have a change  wink

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Re: New F1 season kicks off this weekend

Monaco.

Against the backdrop it is a shame the race is such a folly. It was marginally better this year of course with, Overtaking! Although that said most it of seemed to incur a penalty or accident of some kind.

Hamilton.
He's upset and frustrated but trying to overtake at Station Hairpin won't help. I'm surprised how many tried it when it really isn't an accepted overtaking spot. He's made at Massa, maybe with some justification, but he needs to understand Massa is fighting for his career as he probably won't be at Ferrari next year. Massa's driving has the same edge of desperation at times.

The win.
Bit of a joke starting the race again. But an even bigger joke was letting them change tyres before the restart. Whaaat? It was Vettel's decision to not stop again. A red flag means the race is halted, but no work other than safety related can be carried. No way was a tyre change safety related. It handed the victory to Vettel as his tyres were about to drop off big time and he would have been 4-5 seconds slower than Alonso. Alonso was robbed today of a victory.

Vettel and Red Bull don't need this kind of help and I think it was an extremely poor decision. The better decision was NOT to restart. Then I would have accepted Vettel's victory without question ad give a well done.

Officialdom. It really does have its head up its backside at times.

The driver of the day? all of the top 5 really. So glad to see Sauber get something out of the weekend after the crash yesterday and losing Perez for the race.

Canada next. Hardest race on brakes of the year. Lets hope it isn't another RedBull/Vettel benefit.

MikeH

No Hits, No Hype.......................Classic Rock Jan 2012

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Re: New F1 season kicks off this weekend

I was dumbfounded at the tire change in the red. The fix was in!
Rick

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202 (edited by LynB 2011-05-31 02:46:48)

Re: New F1 season kicks off this weekend

hansamike wrote:

The win.
Bit of a joke starting the race again. But an even bigger joke was letting them change tyres before the restart. Whaaat? It was Vettel's decision to not stop again. A red flag means the race is halted, but no work other than safety related can be carried. No way was a tyre change safety related. It handed the victory to Vettel as his tyres were about to drop off big time and he would have been 4-5 seconds slower than Alonso. Alonso was robbed today of a victory.

Vettel and Red Bull don't need this kind of help and I think it was an extremely poor decision. The better decision was NOT to restart. Then I would have accepted Vettel's victory without question ad give a well done.

Starting with the positive: I thoroughly enjoyed this race for a change.  There was actually some overtaking without the use of DRS and the glorious sight of three world champions fighting it out for the top spot on the podium over the last 10 laps or so with both Vettel and Alonso's tyres getting close to the point of no return. 

I too was surprised about the tyre changes going on when the race was under the red flag.  It meant that Vettel all but had the race in the bag and denied us viewers the chance of a really thrilling race to the flag.  I would have loved to have seen what was left in those original Pirellis after the 60 odd laps he'd already done.  I did have to smile though.  Having spent the best part of several thousand £££ changing Lewis's nose and wing combo McLaren then had the indignity of seeing him bend it all up again a few laps later!   yikes

Bad taste in the mouth moment - Lewis Hamilton's petulant tv interview.  There's no way he had the racing line when he sidelined Massa off the track.  I always thought that if you had your nose cone in front of the other guy when turning into a corner then by default it's yours.  Obviously Lewis thought otherwise and quite rightly, in my opinion, he incurred the wrath of the stewards and got not just a drive through but a 20 second penalty added to his race time.  His attitude about the two incidents he caused (and yes, I do apportion the blame to him) and his criticisms about his team over the weekend made for uncomfortable viewing.

Re: New F1 season kicks off this weekend

interesting take on things guys.

I watched start and finish and some of the in-between "racing" this weekend, - and thought it relatively entertaining obviously in part because it was Monaco, - I have ridden a motorbike around the street circuit and it is awesome!

Have to say that I thought Hamilton's attitude and attempts at racing were spot on for what the "sport" needs to liven it up! F1 has become way to sanitised with too many people accepting it as a business tool with the PR side of things taking priority over and above racing. To "cage" an out and out racer like Hamilton only detracts from the appeal of F1, - sorry to be so opposed to your opinions Lynn but long may he be able to speak out about team mistakes, - again the sport is way too sanitised already, - if a driver makes a mistake it is public, as happened here with the docking of 20 seconds so if a team screw up the entire racing weekend for Hamilton as they did here why not say it? Hamilton was on for a win here and having been around racers albeit motorcyclists they do not tend to deal with other peoples incompetencies very well; they are perfectionists and expect the same from others.

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Re: New F1 season kicks off this weekend

I have to agree with Ian. The wheel to wheel racing was just what was needed. Actual overtaking at Monaco! Too bad the stewards saw differently. Mangled machinery is part of racing. My experience with lower class open wheel is that the young drivers have to pay for a ride and if they break it, they must pay to fix it! That enforces a bit of caution.  wink  Maybe they should instigate this in F1.  lol
Rick

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Re: New F1 season kicks off this weekend

Ian916 wrote:

interesting take on things guys.

I watched start and finish and some of the in-between "racing" this weekend, - and thought it relatively entertaining obviously in part because it was Monaco, - I have ridden a motorbike around the street circuit and it is awesome!

Have to say that I thought Hamilton's attitude and attempts at racing were spot on for what the "sport" needs to liven it up! F1 has become way to sanitised with too many people accepting it as a business tool with the PR side of things taking priority over and above racing. To "cage" an out and out racer like Hamilton only detracts from the appeal of F1, - sorry to be so opposed to your opinions Lynn but long may he be able to speak out about team mistakes, - again the sport is way too sanitised already, - if a driver makes a mistake it is public, as happened here with the docking of 20 seconds so if a team screw up the entire racing weekend for Hamilton as they did here why not say it? Hamilton was on for a win here and having been around racers albeit motorcyclists they do not tend to deal with other peoples incompetencies very well; they are perfectionists and expect the same from others.

Don't disagree with the sentiment but the question is whether Hamilton would like to be publicly criticised by his team in this way? I suspect not ,as his temperament at the moment is a little too brittle.

Hamilton has had a rough deal in the past from stewards when overtaking. Getting penalise for putting a wheel off the circuit last year when overtaking Massa, whilst Vettel escapes with nothing for the same offence.

That said, on Sunday, the attempted passes at the Station Hairpin were just plain daft. Di Resta did it early on and lost his nose. It may be there is a gap left by the car in front, but at about 40mph you are never gonna fill it sufficiently before the aforementioned car in front starts to fill it. Simple bloody physics. There are very few places at Monaco to pass and the hairpin isn't one of them! Schumacher only managed it as Rosberg, his teamate, backed out of turning into him at the last minute

Hamiltons attempt there was plain clumsy and desperate and he should be penalised for it 'cos it was bad driving. Massa had a huge accident moments later in the tunnel and at the time of writing I don't know if that might have been as a result of the contact. He (massa) clearly got off line in the tunnel as a result of Hamilton getting another run on him on the approach.

I've no problem with his (Hamiltons) attitude. The sport DOES need it, but there are places to pass and then again places to pass.

Hamiltons problem stemmed from his failure in Q3 to set an early lap that would have given him a higher grid position. He blames the team but he is also part of the equation. Who makes the final decision? If he follows the teams experts advice and it goes wrong, he blames them? Fair enough but I see a breakdown of trust forming at McLaren. No chance for him at Ferrari for the next years. Swap Webber with Red Bull? I think he is going to be on his way somehow at the end of his current deal if not before.

No Hits, No Hype.......................Classic Rock Jan 2012

Re: New F1 season kicks off this weekend

Canadian Fi: At last some racing! What a superb race with drivers actually trying to overtake each other, or take each other out under braking! Great to see the actual "racers", Schumacher, Webber, Button and Hamilton in a situation where the podium could have been decided by actual racing as opposed to crew tactics. Vetel, - blew it and for in his own words being too cautious.... we don't want to see cautious, we want racing!

Best race I have seen in as long as I can remember. If only they could bottle this situation up and reproduce it every time!

At the same time MotoGP (bikes) falls apart through poor weather, poor track design, sanitised racing (Simoncelli penalised) and Honda's spending induced domination. zzzzzz. Long live the TT!

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207 (edited by Brack 2011-06-14 03:02:35)

Re: New F1 season kicks off this weekend

After what felt like a marathon race, 5 hrs i think ? ..... glad i stayed with it. Funny what a heavy downpour will do for a race.
Congratulations to JB, rode the race of his life! Sebastian is human after all !

Superb race!

Now, lets see if Andy M can win his final at Queens! smile  edit: Well, yes he did! congrats Andy! Now for the biggie !

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Re: New F1 season kicks off this weekend

What an absolute corker of a race!  The thrills kept on a coming right up until the very last lap when Vettel decided to go off piste which allowed Jenson to sneak his way through to a brilliant, brilliant first place.  Who'd have foreseen that after being in 21st place at one stage.  Michael Schumacher seems to have had a fire lit underneath him and it was a shame that he just couldn't hold off the charging Button and Webber and take a spot on the podium.  And what a thrilling finish it was for sixth place with Massa just holding off Kobayashi at the chequered flag.

Yes, this is what we want!!!  This is a race that will be talked about for a long time.  F1 - welcome back!

209 (edited by hansamike 2011-06-14 02:12:32)

Re: New F1 season kicks off this weekend

The rain, as ever, did the trick.

Always intersting in these conditions to see who can really shine. Some of it luck of course, but a huge amount of skill. When it is very wet it is just for the crazy and brave but on a slippery track when lack of grip must be overcome by skill, that is when the men and boys get sorted.

Schumacher skill in such conditions was always supreme and he hasn't lost it. Button and Webber are also top drawer, Vettel too as his Monza win from 09 proved.

Button though was a true 'Meister'on Sunday. How Hamilton must have rued not being out there. Their's was a racing incident and Button has even apologised, but in all fairness he couldn't have seen Lewis. F1 mirrors are rubbish at the best of times but with a ball of spray as well - no chance. Sorry but I can't help feeling Lewis was extremely dim on Sunday. In those conditions to finish first you must first finish. There was always going to be safety cars where leads built up would be lost. Webber got it right in saying Lewis was trying to win the 2 Lap Canadian Grand Prix.

Jenson proved even with 2 clashes, Drive through penalty and 5 pit stops it was possible to win. Yes Vettel threw it away, but he was under intense pressure at the time.

There were great drives throughout. Kobayashi, Sutil - until he spanked it, Schumi, the Torro Rosso's.

Yes, it was 4.5 hours, but my was it worth it in the end. So glad the stewards saw Jensons driving the way the rest of us did. Fair racing. The move he was trying on Alonso was on and it was just unfortunate Fernandon got beached. If he hadn't he could have also been the winner. By comparison Lewis's lunge on the first lap on Webber was more than optimistic. He needs to go away and have a bit of a think about wet weather races.

Great race, deserved victor. Thats what we like!

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Re: New F1 season kicks off this weekend

Thanks for the reports. BCC and guests meant I missed the best race of the year. Sigh, this time I wish it were at 4 am.
Rick

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211 (edited by pit_s_xroad 2011-06-15 03:09:07)

Re: New F1 season kicks off this weekend

Jensen deserved the win... he was working all his way through the whole gang... He is a cool and humble person...  :-)

Sebastian lost the race because of all the Safety Car phases, partly because some others wanted to win a 2 lap race, as already mentioned... they "stole" him 20-30 seconds all together... he made everything right. It's sad but no tragedy that he made this little booboo at the end... he almost pointed double because two of his three main competitors eliminated themself...  :-)

and Michael was shining in his old day's glory... I am sad for him that he lost his deserved 3rd place because of the unfair DRS-crap-thingy... I enjoyed it some much seeing him driving... :-)

I hope this DRS-sh*t disappears as fast as it showed up... It's bulls**t... What smallmind did came up with this idea...? I don't get it since I have heard of it the first time...  :-(

these are 2,5 cents

Greetings
PIT... :-)

212 (edited by hansamike 2011-06-15 03:51:41)

Re: New F1 season kicks off this weekend

I understand your feelings PIT, about DRS, but I think you are missing the point a bit.

Michael didn't lose his 3rd place because of DRS. He lost it because on a drying track the Mercedes isn't a match for the Red Bull or a McLaren, at the moment.

Schumacher was at his best in the race in the slippery conditions. But at this time the cars were lapping 10 seconds slower than when it eventually dried. Michael could use his talent while the disparity in the car performances was made neutral by the conditions. As it dried he was also 'left otu to dry' by the quicker cars.

As to DRS it enables a car to gain an advantage in speed over a car on the straight, enabling it to overtake. But if the overtaken car has a comparable speed HE will be in a position to re-overtake on the next lap.

We have spent many years watching slower cars resist overtaking because of the following car loses areodynamic effciency when following closely in the wake of the car in front. Racing became predictable and F1 was ultimately....boring.

DRS is, I think, an interim solution to resolving this problem. It is a mechanical aid to overcome aerodynamic 'over' efficiency.

There was a time when F1 was all about mechanical grip, big tyres and massive traction. The Lotus 78 and 79 changed all that forever.

Since then F1 fans have become prisoners of the wind tunnel. DRS at least allows drivers to fight for position. If their car is worthy of the position they will be able to retain it. The quickest will always be the quickest, DRS won't honestly change that.

The story of this season though isn't about DRS, it is the tyres. Pirelli is the great unknown at every track. The massive speed differentials we are seeing at the moment is down to tyre performance on different cars and set ups and not DRS.

It was a great drive by Schumi on Sunday and so good to see. But he needed it at least damp for a few more laps. The Mercedes just isn't quick enough yet for a drying track IMHO.

But you are quite right. Vettel lost this race because of the safety cars. He was always able to build up a lead but lost it every time through no fault of his own. Button had no right to be anywhere near the front given all his dramas. But Seb has had he his fair share of luck this year already - think Monaco and the Red Flag, and being able to change tyres!

What goes around comes around, very much so in motor racing!

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Re: New F1 season kicks off this weekend

Hi...

I see what you're meaning... and understand the intention of the DRS... but I still consider it unfair... in regards to the situation of Michael, yeep you're of course right...

however imaging Seb hadn't done this mistake and Jenson would have got him on last straight in the last lap just because he has the DRS advantage... no more laps to go and re-overtake... so leading an entire race, making no mistakes and then get caught in the last minute just because of this technical advantage... that's got nothing to do with driving abilities at all... such a victory would taste bitter IMHO... very bitter...

Cheers
PIT... :-)

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Re: New F1 season kicks off this weekend

pit_s_xroad wrote:

Hi...
I see what you're meaning... and understand the intention of the DRS... but I still consider it unfair... in regards to the situation of Michael, yeep you're of course right...

however imaging Seb hadn't done this mistake and Jenson would have got him on last straight in the last lap just because he has the DRS advantage... no more laps to go and re-overtake... so leading an entire race, making no mistakes and then get caught in the last minute just because of this technical advantage... that's got nothing to do with driving abilities at all... such a victory would taste bitter IMHO... very bitter...

Cheers
PIT... :-)

You have a point too PIT.  However, in Montreal the first DRS activation point came just after the hairpin which means that the cars will be slow around there.  The car behind would get affected by drag and dirty air from the car in front so it would in theory still have been possible for Vettel to hold on, get the pedal down first out of the turn and pull away from Button to be more than 1 second in front so that Button couldn't operate the DRS.  Or am I looking at it too simplistically?  So many ifs and buts …

Hansamike –  you seem the right person to explain to me as a non-techie what the DRS detection point is and how it relates to the activation zone?  Interestingly, from Canada onwards there will be two DRS activation zones.

Re: New F1 season kicks off this weekend

Pit -Road,

I know what you are saying I really do, but that is the fascinating thing about F1. It is never quite as simple as it looks.

there are a couple of points here. Even Seb doesn't think he lost the race because of his 'booboo', he lost it in his own words for being 'too cautious' after the last safety car. Previously he had always built up a nice cushion of between 6-8 seconds, but this time he didn't. He thought he had in hand what he would need to fend off Michael, or Mark (who wouldn't have been allowed to pass anyway).

Of course Jenson did them both in short order because he was sooo fast and Seb did not have enoug of a lead in hand to make it to the line, although without the booboo, who knows?

The fact is DRS is only part of the story. OK Canada has long straights, and slow curves. It isn't a Red Bull circuit if you like. The Red Bull has fantastic downforce in fast curves, but its Renault isn't a match for the Merc on the straights and its KERS system doesn't work as well as the Mercedes/McLaren system and KERS gives you traction out of slow corners.

So Seb was always in danger in Canada if the McLaren was anywhere near because the circuit should have favoured them anyway.

DRS works when you are within a second of the car in front so first you have to get within a second. What got Jenson to that 1 second gap was his greater speed on the straights and traction out of the corners. Even then the Red Bull was quick enough. I think without the 'booboo' Seb would have made it and DRS would not have been the deciding factor.

I have no problem with great drivers defending their position, but I never liked seeing great drivers prevented from overtaking average ones because they couldn't follow the car closely enough. Don't write DRS off. It is early days. After 1 season of using it everyone will know how it works best and where it works best and we wonder how we got through F1 without it. Sometimes artificial rule changes are necessary.

Remember international football in the late 80's. Always passing back to the keeper, wasting time. Boring boring.

They changed the rule. No back passing, suddenly the defenders have to play the ball. Action, pressure, excitement.

Forget DRS. Lets all do a rain dance every sunday and make the GPs wet! Thats what we want!!!

No Hits, No Hype.......................Classic Rock Jan 2012

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Re: New F1 season kicks off this weekend

hansamike wrote:

Pit -Road,

Forget DRS. Lets all do a rain dance every sunday and make the GPs wet! Thats what we want!!!

There's every chance of that happening at the British GP!