Topic: The impossible combination??

Hello !

I've a question, hope you can help.

I'm a strat lover but sometimes well, you also want the big sound of a humbucker, I think the sound is there on JB "Blues DeLuxe" (single from the Blues the luxe album).

What do I need to get a sound like that, is it possible to get this sound by replacing the bridge pickup of a standard strat by a staggered humbucker (so it looks like a single coil).?

And do you really need a Marshall amp (as a strat lover I have a Fender Twin Reverb but no way to get a distortion out of this amp  :-)  ....)

Can I get the sound with this Twin Reverb in combination with a pedal....(which...?)

Is there a possible combination for both kind of sounds into 1 guitar/amp

Thanks!

Re: The impossible combination??

I am quite fond of that tone myself

if memory serves me right, I thought I read somewhere, that sond was recorded
with a Princeton Reverb and Seymour Duncan Antiquity pickups

Re: The impossible combination??

The Blues Deluxe tone was a strat through a Marshall Silver Jubilee and another Vintage (I think 100 watts) Marshall... the strat was a plain old strat with all single coils- no guitar on that song is humbucker equipped (at least on the studio version) Joe did play Blues Deluxe on a Les Paul for some live shows when he switced to liking LP's more... you're best bet is to get a Marshall amp- I also have a Twin and I'm trading it in for some other amp (a Marshall probably- I just can't find anything that sounds that good to my ears smile ) I just cant get a good tone at all through the Twin with any distortion pedal (I was really into the whole SRV/KWS thing when I bought it)...

Hope this helps

Scott

"Interestingly, according to modern astronomers, space is finite. This is a very comforting thought-- particularly for people who can never remember where they have left things." - Woody Allen

http://www.last.fm/user/skynyrd128

Re: The impossible combination??

Yeah dude, your gonna need a marshall.  Joes strat tone is very full, and not too midrangy or honkey, he has single coils that arent as overwound as teh texas specials, i think they are original vintage strat pickups from the 50's or 60's.  I think he is usngn the silver jubilee and a plexi, I really dont know for sure, but that is one hell of a tone.  remember a substantial part of any tone is in the fingers, but with the right gear you can come close. Maybe Joe will enlighten us.
Peace,
Conner

Fender '62 reissue Stratocaster, 2001 Gibson Les Paul Studio(Stock), Marshall JCM900 100W Head, Original 1972 Carvin 4/12 Cabinet,Ibanez Ts9 Reissue, Keeley Compressor, Boss DD-3 Delay, Vox Wah

Re: The impossible combination??

Here is the reprint from Tonequest

I know I have another article somewhere........


Are there any guitars that were predominant on
Blues Deluxe?
I brought a lot of vintage Strats to that session, but the best
one for that record was a sunburst ‘65. I had the matching
pair of ‘63 Strats that were built one day apart that I brought,
but they were both a little darker and not as punchy as the
‘65. When I go into the control room  and listen back to the
guitar, I want everything to be really forward, like that
old Billy Gibbons Pearly Gates sound. Oddly enough, the
least valuable of all the vintage Strats I brought to the
session turned out to be the winner, which says something
about the whole vintage guitar thing… For the clangier
rhythm tracks, I used the Esquire.

TQR: Did you vary from your standard amplifier rig that
you use on the road?

I mixed and matched different things. On one track we used
one of the Silver Jubilees and a tweed Harvard, both cranked
up. We also used a ‘65 Princeton Reverb on a couple of
things like “You Upset Me,” and I used an obscure amp from
Canada that I really love called a Garnet… But primarily, my
standard amp rig is always in the mix.

Have you done anything else with gear that is
worth noting on your last three recordings?
Well, in the past I’ve often cut two guitar tracks and panned
them wide to create a thick wall of sound, and I was conscious
of not doing that for Blues Deluxe. I did use a 1969 100W
Marshall head with a Tube Screamer to drive it on the A New
Day Yesterday CD, along with the Jubilees for stereo. They had
a lot of vintage Marshall cabinets with Greenbacks in the studio
for that record and we used those, but I did use more Fender
amps than I ever have in the past on Blues Deluxe.

6 (edited by Joppnl 2007-03-17 06:37:47)

Re: The impossible combination??

Well, thank you all for your replies, I'm wondered that JB uses mainly Strat's as I thought I needed a humbucker LP or something like that.

Next question, may-be you can help me here as well: what kind of Marshall would you suggest: I dislike very heavy (by weight) amps so may-be not a 100W as I like to use it cranked up at home and on stage I'll use amp miked with the P.A.

Oh...and may-be a pair of fingers from JB as well :-)

Mmm, and may-be I'll trade-in my Fender Twin Reverd as well but on the other hand, you can never have too many amps can you ???

By the way: listen to "Mocha" from Scott Henderson............wow, what a sound that is as well....

Re: The impossible combination??

I've gone down the Marshall route too- I have an old 100watt plexi (which I've since retired as it's just too loud for the places I play) These days I use a Marshall Bluesbreaker re-issue.  I think I saw Joe using one on the Rockpalast DVD, and it really gives you that 'thick' tone once I get it up to around 4-5.  It's only 35 watts or so- but plenty loud enough for small clubs etc- I use an Eric Johnson strat (amazing guitar- highly recommend it) and an amber top Les Paul similar to Joe's with Duncan antiquities installed.  In fact I have almost the opposite problem with the Les Paul- it's almost too thick and powerful.  I use an old Fuzz face & tubescreamer/budda wah as effects- hey- it works for me...

This don't look like no express way to me...

Re: The impossible combination??

One more thought to go along with all this good advice. I remember reading that Joe uses a clean boost to give his single coils a little more gain which drives the amp harder (like good humbuckers) and creates more of that sweet overdrive tone (as opposed to distortion). He was using a Carl Martin Hot Drive'N Boost as of last November. The key to Joe's tone, other than his phenomenal technique, is running the master gain or power amp gain high, which creates that huge, harmonic-laden overdrive sound, as oppose to a buzzy pre-amp gain distortion that looses definition. He also runs the mids up fairly high which gives great clarity even in the midst of the storm.

Blessings,
Larry

"...play skillfully and shout for joy." Psalm 33:3b (honest, it really says that)

Re: The impossible combination??

I have a Hotrails in my Strat and love it.  Its hot though but you can clean it up by rolling the volume back.

Re: The impossible combination??

I was recently Shopping for a marshall myself, I ended up settling for a JCM900 head, and i love it!  for whatever reason DO NOT settle for any solid state Marshall, the point of the marshall is the tubes.  If your worried about weight, like larryt says a bluesbreaker reissue.  Or if your looking for a little more gain, like a jcm900 combo, which you can only get used now i believe.  Honestly your not gonna get THAT exact sound unless you can find a silver jubilee, which last time i checked ebay had a few combo versions of them, but there $$$.  But if yoiu grab a nice marshall and keep your twin and run them stereo, thats a pretty sweet setup right there!
Peace,
Conner

Fender '62 reissue Stratocaster, 2001 Gibson Les Paul Studio(Stock), Marshall JCM900 100W Head, Original 1972 Carvin 4/12 Cabinet,Ibanez Ts9 Reissue, Keeley Compressor, Boss DD-3 Delay, Vox Wah

Re: The impossible combination??

well, lot's of advice, gonna need to go to the music store to hear all of the advice myself...

what do you think of the jcm800 (combo) series? (as I think the 900 is a little to loud and big...)

Yes, I'll stay away from the valveseries, it's not the real thing. An optimum would be a EJ strat AND an Marshall.....but small steps first. So what about these amps. are they good (enough) for htat typical Marshall sound?

Thanks again!

12 (edited by gsj 2007-03-17 18:31:09)

Re: The impossible combination??

Check out the new Marshall Vintage/Modern series heads and combo.....awsome! We had the Marshall demo guy in our store this week and he made it sing!!! The 900 series are too high gain to my ears....DSL is cool, typical Marshall EL34 tone...think Kossof et al and prepare to get goose bumps smile

never give up, never slow down
never grow old, never ever die young

Re: The impossible combination??

I play a BUDDA TWINMASTER 210 Combo. You may want to check one out. 18 watts. Plenty loud for most small/medium sized clubs. And, you can find a used one for under $1,000.00 if you look. Here's a reprint of the Guitar Player Magazine review:

    http://www.indoorstorm.com/newsdesk_inf … desk_id=36

    It's not the best representation of a Twinmaster. But, here's a clip of mine, on the low gain input:

    http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemus … dID=614301

    It's the bottom clip. The amp can do a lot more. This is just me jamming to a backing track, with a Shure SM 57 stuck in front of the amp.

Early 80's 1957 U.S. Vintage Reissue Stratocaster (Surf Green)-Warmouth Soloist  Pearly Gates Neck, Pearly Gates Bridge- Larrivee D-03 (Mahogany/ Spruce)
Carmen Ghia Head- Marshall 112 Cab W/G12H 30  or  Custom 4 X 6v6 Head  or  Budda Twinmaster Plus Head-Traynor 212 Cab w/Eminence Texas Heats. 
Mo'D-Eternity-Blues Pro- Timmy-BYOC Chorus/Vibrato- TC SCF- Korg DT 10 Pedal Tuner

Re: The impossible combination??

Buying Marshalls is a very tricky business- none of them are "light weight"- and all are very loud, and the sound is often not even close to what you hear on a recording or live.
If you have seen JB live he runs his rig very loud- thats the way all the greats have done it. Get those power tubes hot and sucking air like a marathon runner. That's what he says he did when recording as well. Joe uses some type of glass baffle in front of his cabs so not to damage the structural integrity of the venues he plays in. My ears still rang for two days...
The JMP 45- the 30 watt Marshall at 2 1/2 is almost crystal clean, and is so loud that makes the shop owner glare in your direction. Where is that massive Marshall distorsion?
I own a JMP 50 1987- a Brit 50 watt- which I have been told equates to 80 watts RMS- the US measurement. I have never had it above 1. And my panty wearing bandmates complain about that. It is all crunch- God bless the little bitch- and eye squinting treble. I set the bass at 8, the middle at 6 and the treble at 1. And I wanted to take it back to the shop- for that kind of jing, I expected tonal Nirvana.
Not.
Enter Analogman SD-1 and Boss DS-1 (combined $170), DD-20 ($179), and Analogman Clone Chorus ($187 on ebay). With some level adjustments I get the volume down so the guys I jam with stop making weepy noises. And then it gets tone like everybody absoultely dreams of. My singer, a jaded old rocker just smiles and shakes his head during Red House- LP or Strat.
The JCM 800 and 900 are master volumes, with the 800 having a tube preamp stage. I had one of those (50w) and it breaks up well at lower volume without the loudness of the JMP for some reason, but not like the plexi. Those plexi reissues are insanely loud. I have never played a Silver Jubilee or a 30 aniversary ('what has 29 knobs and sounds like God?' the ad said)
If you walk into a store or go on line be prepared to begin the tonal quest- you will likely not be happy with what comes "out of the box". And believe it or not, even with the head selling for around $950 on ebay, it is still a deal compared to all the boutique stuff. I just saw an eighteen watt something or other- the head was $4300!
And, God bless you if you made it this far- I was just curious Joe, what did that Dutch handwired number run?
Jim

15 (edited by Budda 2007-03-18 13:03:34)

Re: The impossible combination??

Great advice, Corpse.
    A lot of my students want to get a "Half Stack", when they get into a band. Then, they are depressed that it doesn't sound like they've always thought it would. It's because they try to run the amp with the volume at 2 or 3 (On a 1 to 10 scale).
    A tube amp won't usually start growling until the volume is at 5. It won't start crunching and singing until about 7. With a tube amp, 5 watts can be too loud for a living room. I play an 18 watter at small clubs, and a 30 watter at medium sized clubs. Because I like to have the amp's volume at least at 5, to put some hair on the notes.
    So, make sure you're honest with yourself about what type of setting you're going to be playing in most of the time.
    You can buy an attenuator, which will let you crank the amp and lower the overall volume. But, it still doesn't sound exactly right.
    You can get an amp between 15 and 30 watts in a head version, if you want. Then, you can set it on a 112, 110, 121, 210, or 412 cab. It will still be a half stack. Just not insanely loud.

    If you're playing really big clubs, then yeah, a 50 watt Marshall is an option. A 100 watter would really be a LOT of amp, if you want to crank it up! WHEW! I mean, how often do you crank your Twin past 7? It's the same type of deal, with any tube amp. A "Master Volume" only helps a little. Too much, and your tone disappears.

    Be careful, buddy! I heard that Jeff Beck was going to tour with Guns And Roses, and got tinnitus from Slash's amps. And this was at the practices. So, the tour got called off.

     Seriously though, an 18 watt Twinmaster is more than most people would think. I've played side by side with players who were using 50 watt Marshalls. They could get louder. But, not too much louder than me. Their amps threw the sound farther into the crowd. That was the main difference. Oh, and the soundman would always tell them to "turn down some" (neutering their amps' tone). So, they would "try" to get the tones with pedals. Besides, I can carry my combo with 1 hand, and the El-84 tubes are plentiful, and cheap to replace. Also, I carry a Shure Beta 57, and a quality Mic cable. If I need more volume, I run a mic to the P.A.


    I hope this post is not too long-winded. Good luck on your "Tone Quest". It's going to be a fun time!

Early 80's 1957 U.S. Vintage Reissue Stratocaster (Surf Green)-Warmouth Soloist  Pearly Gates Neck, Pearly Gates Bridge- Larrivee D-03 (Mahogany/ Spruce)
Carmen Ghia Head- Marshall 112 Cab W/G12H 30  or  Custom 4 X 6v6 Head  or  Budda Twinmaster Plus Head-Traynor 212 Cab w/Eminence Texas Heats. 
Mo'D-Eternity-Blues Pro- Timmy-BYOC Chorus/Vibrato- TC SCF- Korg DT 10 Pedal Tuner

Re: The impossible combination??

mitch wrote:

I've gone down the Marshall route too- I have an old 100watt plexi (which I've since retired as it's just too loud for the places I play) These days I use a Marshall Bluesbreaker re-issue.  I think I saw Joe using one on the Rockpalast DVD, and it really gives you that 'thick' tone once I get it up to around 4-5.  It's only 35 watts or so- but plenty loud enough for small clubs etc- I use an Eric Johnson strat (amazing guitar- highly recommend it) and an amber top Les Paul similar to Joe's with Duncan antiquities installed.  In fact I have almost the opposite problem with the Les Paul- it's almost too thick and powerful.  I use an old Fuzz face & tubescreamer/budda wah as effects- hey- it works for me...

What amps did JOE use on the DVD? Borrowed for the gigs?  I did see the Bluesbreaker up there also.

Re: The impossible combination??

I dont know if anyones noticed, but in ANDY live(the dvd) He hasnt started using the plexi sheild infront od the amps yet.  And I REALLY dig is andy live tone, more than any other live or studio tone that joe has put out.  Theres really something about those jubilee's.  I dont get how he smooths out the marshalls so well.  I run a JCM900 and the thing is beastly, but i find it hard to get out of that AC/DC kind of gain setting.  My setting that im kind of happy with right now is Bass 10, mid 8, trebel 2. gain 9.  I also use a tube screamer for some umph. 
I still say you should go with some kind of marshall combo!  Marshall is the cats ****!
Peace,
Conner

Fender '62 reissue Stratocaster, 2001 Gibson Les Paul Studio(Stock), Marshall JCM900 100W Head, Original 1972 Carvin 4/12 Cabinet,Ibanez Ts9 Reissue, Keeley Compressor, Boss DD-3 Delay, Vox Wah

18 (edited by corpse 2007-03-19 07:30:01)

Re: The impossible combination??

The wailing distortion JB gets is really something- standing close to a flat out Marshall has got to be 100db ANYWAY, but there is alot more to it. The distortion itself is really saturated- like a musical chainsaw. Not the insane metal sort- but a hard rock tone. I would attribute that to a Silver Jubilee- which I thought was a JCM 900-ish beast. Definitely more of that than plexi. I don't think you could get there with a JMP without a pedal of some sort, which seems missing from JB's board. The CM boost, but thats not getting to the dist I heard live.
Jim