Delay without loop??? (Page 1 of 2)

You answered your question by yourself. As soon the amp gets pushed hard, then the effects go crazy.
Means they get distorted. I played a Valvetech Hayseed 30 for some years and it has a fantastic PPIMV Master volume.
So you can push the preamp while the poweramp run relatively clean. So a delay is no problem here though
you have to be careful with the delay level knob. If you crank the amp full up then there is no real chance to have clean delay.

What to do? I once had 2 amp setup. An old AC-30 full up (with Weber mass attenuator) for a dry basic sound
and a second new AC-30 CC2 for the effects. I took the signal from the Line out of the Weber mass and fed it into
the modulation pedals. From there to the FX Return of the AC-30 CC2. Voila! I had the sound of the blasted AC-30 and
all effects in superb quality. Of course you always have 2 amps to haul but this was a good sounding setup for years.

Otherwise you need a good overdrive pedal to keep the amp volume down.
Then all the effects wil work fine but any overdrive ped I heard would never beat
a cranked tube amp.

Good luck
Alex

(edit=typo)

It all depends on the types of delay and how you set it up in your rig.  Effects loops are preferrable, but not always neccessary.  In my recent Metro Superlead demo I ran both a reverb and delay before the amp ala Eric Johnson and it seemed to work just fine.  You have to be careful with feedback/level controls for sure.  I'm actually warming up to the "ducking" sound that you get when you run a delay in front of a cranked tube amp.  Tape-style echos seem to work particularly well in front of amps in my experience...

The key to using a delay BEFORE an amp seems to rely on 2 things...

1) not using OD pedals, because whatever you have the delay mix set for, as soon as you kick on an OD pedal it goes out of wack.

2) finding a delay who's initial repeat isn't too loud, too loud initial repeat makes it difficult to blend the delay into the base tone when running before an amp. The only delay I've found that works great like this is the Maxon AD-999...  actually, just about ANY ANALOG delay should work fine, they have "quieter" initial repeats. Digital delays are hard to use before an amp, especially an overdriving one.

I didn't say an overdrive pedal won't work well with a delay, I said if you have the delay set for a sound WITHOUT an overdrive pedal, then you kick on the overdrive pedal, the delay will get out of control, the mix will need to be lowered for the same effect.  The OD raises the level of the guitar signal into the delay, which makes the entire delay louder.

Ah that's of course something different.
Sure a delay will alter in level with an OD ped
if its set to the basic sound of the amp.
I talked about using an OD ped INSTEAD of cranking the amp
for amp distortion with the OD ped permanent on.
So we are both right.

OK,
I run my guitar into a wah, Fulltone Fulldrive set for a mild overdrive, Texas Deuce for a boost, then my Ocean EFX Vintage Echo for delay, right into a AC30. 

The delay is on 100% of the time.  If my sound is clean or mild overdrive or screaming leads with both overdrives on and the boosts on.  I have never had this problem with the delay going crazy. I have NO idea what you all are talking about. I just have a hint of delay its by no means cranked but you'll hear it in the background.

It sounds wonderful. Maybe its Ocean EFX magic or maybe I just dont understand your all's problem.

And for the record I've compared the sound of cranked amps to pedals and by far the Fulltone Fulldrive into a clean fender or Vox sounds far better than any cranked amp I've tried. This of course is a matter of taste and preference. So to each his own. I guess thats why there really is no such thing as good tone. Everyones taste is different and a song will dictate what tone compliments it right.

I love Carr amps cranked and 65 amps are some of the best amps out there.  But I would still run them clean and put a fulltone fulldrive in front of them. Its a sound that I think is fantastic. The Ocean EFX Texas Deuce is a fantastic pedal into a clean amp also.

I think what I love about runing pedals into a clean amp is you are not by amy means loosing tone... also you can achieve your tone at any volume. I dont need to worry about having to crank my amp in a little club to feel comfortable playing or happy with my sound. I can adjust my volume as needed and always have the same basic sound.  Pedals are great. You just got to try to keep it simple or it can get crazy.

You haven't tried the right amps then.  And this is coming from someone who's #1 favorite OD is a Fulldrive. NOTHING like the sound of a FD2 boosting an already-overdriving amp.

As for the delay, it sounds like the reason it's working for you is because you're going into a CLEAN or CLEAN-ish amp.  If you were to get most of your drive from the AMP (like JB does), that's where you'll run into problems running an OD & delay in front of the amp.  Which is why the whole "JB delay IN THE LOOP" thing.  Try turning the amp up & getting most of the drive from your amp, then turn on the delay.  Adjust it to taste. NOW turn the fulldrive on.  You'll see what we're talking about. But the amp has to be COOKING.

I have never loved the effect loop on my Jub. I know Joe says there great but when I run my DL4 in there the volume of the pedal is about half than it is in the front, if I put my MXR Phaser (Yea I know Phasers shouldn't go in the loop) when I put it in there Way to Loud! I don't get it. I use a lot of delay on a few tunes at it was such a problem that I ditched the DL4 for my Vox Tonelab and just run all the effect in front of the Jub. I wish there was a better way, I wish the tone lab had more routing opitions like the Boss GT 8 or I could get the loop to sound good. But so it goes.

E