BigJeffJones (Page 1 of 4)

Now this is one of those moments when I would like to have one of those little smiley faces that opens a can of worms, like I see on some other forums!

Is this the right topic area, Al?  No matter brother.

The fact that I'm almost psychotic about music is probably no surprise.  It's a great big world.  Some of the  problems I have with guitar players are of my own making.  All too often we don't want the same thing.

I'll try to explain myself a little at a time.  Just a point of view, if you will, since you asked.  I love rhythm.  I love the groove.  I do NOT dislike the instrument.  I love blues.  The only instruments that can play all the parts (if done well) are guitar and piano.  I could not work (gig) without the guitar.

Playing wise I grow weary of egocentric wanking that doesn't tell a story other than look at me.  The playing is the manifestation of the soul of the player.  When one instrument becomes more important than the song, (one band, one sound) it is no longer a collaboration or a conversation or even a narrative, I get bored...then grumpy.

Laziness is another of my pet peeves.  Lately I must be in need of some sort of lesson.  It seems that I have found myself surrounded by guitarists who are egomaniacs with no reason to be.  My brother assures me it's a local phenomenon.  My new bandmates all confirm that.

Hard work beats talent when talent does not work hard.  I don't mind a long jam if everyone is on the same page.  Strictly a matter of taste.  I like appropriate licks.  Playing a Steve Vai shred in the middle of a jazz swing blues is not appropriate to me and proves only that one is not in sync with ones bandmates...IMO.

I have walked out of rooms where the guitarist has told me he plays SRV perfectly and once we start it becomes obvious that he/she is playing what they think ought to be there, instead of what is.  When I say that's not right, I get insulted and abused.  "What do you know?  You're just a bass player."

I love players with big ears and humble hearts.  I wish I was more like that.  I love music.  A guitar doesn't have to lock in with the drummer, the bass player does.  The guitar certainly can or he can take off...just change when we do.  COMMUNICATE.

To me tight is RIGHT!  Accents in the right place, all together...3 part harmony, spot on.  Know when to play and when to back off.  A full frontal assault at volume 10 with full on distortion is not even music.

When I played with my brother Bob in Boston last year, we started of letting all the jammers play and shred and have fun and Bob & Jeff & Mike (drums) just hummed along putting down that greasy soul blues backbeat.  No competition, just full support.  When it came Bob's turn, he stepped on his pedal, looked at me with that look in his eye, and ripped the head off of every player in the place for 24 bars, dialed it down and sang the last verse and quit.  Goose bump material!

Long extended jam but structured.  The song Killing Floor is a harder gut punch as a 3 minute song than a 6 minute one, just like Born Under a Bad Sign...IMO.

I'll talk about bands if you want to, but that's fairly simple.  In younger days I drank, drugged or got caught with the singer who belonged to somebody else, my way out of them.

Nowadays in my sober dotage it's just we don't want the same thing.

I probably should proofread this but I'm tore down.  Thanks for asking, I guess

MuchLove
FDOL

I agree somewhat with what you have to say Jeff. I was fortunate to see AC/DC earlier this year, and while the concert was friggin mindblowing, I felt that a 15 minute Angus guitar solo just before the encore kind of lost the crowd. It was just a twiddly solo tacked on the end of Let There Be Rock, not in the middle of the song, but at the end. Angus was left on stage while the rest of the band disappeared and left him to it. This imo is ego stroking, and while we all know Angus can play a guitar, the guitar solo was pointless. A case in point would be the live version of Pink Floyd's comfortably numb, which isn't just David Gilmour having a wank, it's a structured extension to one of the greatest guitar solos ever, but the whole band join in, it wouldn't sound anywhere near as good without all of the musicians working in harmony. I'm hoping I'm thinking along the same lines as you here. I appreciate great musicians, and sometimes a great musician isn't measured by what they play, it's measured by what they don't play, that's what makes them special

I'm not a musician, I don't play anything, but I do listen, a lot, and this is just my opinion.

Jon

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I have to tell you, there is no room for attitude or ego really when all parts are geared, and firing on all cylinders.  It should not be a struggle.  It is almost effortless.  It's magic in whatever genre.  Even the drummer contributes to the arrangements. 

I think (dangerous, I know) that a good dose of reality is healthy.  Here's a scenario:  Started a long slow Blues with a single guitar intro and I just botched the intro till hell wouldn't have it. Guitarist looked at me, "What happened?"

"I missed the one..." said I.  "I thought it was my fault," said my deaf drummer.  Organist looked up and said "Lost me completely"  Guitarist said, "Hmmm, maybe I was the one lost.  Somebody give me a count."  Done!  No struggle.

And his tone is so thick & creamy it's a pleasure.  I think Derek Trucks and Joe Bonamassa are fabulous guitarists and love them both dearly.  Smart Alec "Can of Worms"  Ken is a good guitarist.  Kane is a good guitarist.  My brother Bob is a good guitarist.   They want to collaborate.

Any musician who can't or won't play with other players is missing out on an entire world.  Bedroom wonders say come on let's jam.  What they really mean is I'll play and you try to keep up.  Give them a song pattern or put up a metronome and all you get is excuses.

I want music, not posture.  I'm grown now...I think...

MuchLove
BigJeff

"Even the drummer contributes to the arrangements." 

    Whoa! Don't go talkin' all crazy now......... 

    (Okay, I just had to sneak a Drummer joke in! )

    BJJ,

    Thanks for all your thoughts on this. It confirms a lot of what I have thought. And I agree with all of it. Some of the same things bug me, and/or inspire me.

    I have to go to work right now. But, I will try to post some thoughts to add to the discussion, tonight or tomorrow morning.

    It's cool to hear from others here, also. And looks like a good discussion so far.

I agree with Jeff.
Its about working together.  I see blues jams all the time where bedroom phenoms show up with their Ibanez guitars and Line 6 amps and they can play every note of the latest avenge sevenfold, but you put them in a four piece band and they get overwelmed.

Its about communication and preparation. Bands that last a long time generally have players that all work together. The Black Crowes, Tom Petty, Bruce Springsteen, The rolling Stones. 

Bass players are the most over looked part of a band. A good bass player is the foundation of a rock trio or quartet. I think of Stevie Ray Vaughn, Tommy Shannon is by far one of the best player ever.  Not because he can play like Flea, but because he knew exactly what was needed when.
Good guitar players do exactly the same thing... Play whats needed.

Do believe Jeff Beck once said "Whats the F____ing point of a 20 minute guitar solo?"