• From: Norddeutschland
  • Registered: 2008-12-03
  • Posts: 1,458

Re: Gibson guitar at center of rock feud.....

Greenose wrote:
Tripod wrote:

i don't understand how you can't note the difference between a telecaster and a les paul...

Yes of course there is a difference and for what it's worth he did sound better with the Les Paul, but the volume and the pointless solos did not impress. It was clear Gary was playing only for himself, yet an experienced musician should be able to pick up on audience reaction.  I got the impression many of his long term fans will not go to see him next time. It's no exaggeration to say that Joe Bonamassa and others have raised the standard of what people feel they are entitled to expect.

Of course Gary has made some great music, I like some of his rock albums like Run For Cover and of course his work with Thin Lizzy. His early blues albums like SGTB and Blues for Greeny provided me with an entry to the blues. I have previously defended him on this forum in the past, but having seen him live that has all changed.  His attitude towards his paying public, and fellow professionals defies belief and it's losing him fans.  I could elaborate, but I feel I'd be wasting my time doing so. 

As for Ronnie Montrose, I'm not that familiar with his music, but I know his original band were highly influential on modern metal bands such as Iron Maiden who covered some of his songs. I hope there is a satisfactory resolution.


Greenose, I agree with your comments absolutely. He is one of the greats - no doubt in my mind. I have signed ticket stubs from his 'Midnight Blues Band' RAH gig and I have seen him on many, many other occasions. I consider myself as Germans would say an 'über fan' so I know I what I am talking about.

Even so, when I last saw him 6 months ago, I knew it would be the last time perhaps. His attitude and general approach was even more brusque than normal. The camera and video police were much in evidence and some viewing areas in the vicinity of the stage were blocked off.

I can understand if after 30 years of camera flashes in his face he doesn't want that anymore but then he could overcome that by just asking us not to. His fans would appreciate the interaction and he would have their respect. Even if he doesn't want to chat to the fans in person there are so many other ways to communicate these days ; blogs from the road, website, forums etc etc. Keeping us tuned in, stops fans turning off.

Tripod - I've listened to your clips and from your playing and sound has a similar 'edge' to Gary's sometimes so you are a fan too and I am sure you can understand that being the great virtuoso isn't enough if you can't display similar grace towards your paying public.

I think I also have a good ear and I can differentiate between different types of guitar. Let me tell you, the ONLY difference between his beautiful Tele and the Les Paul was that the Tele was set to "Permanent Ear Damage" level. Any other aural subtleties were unidentifiable.

As far as the Ronnie Montrose thing is concerned, if he says it was his and was stolen then it probably was. As a travelling musician, Gary of all people should appreciate what it must be like to lose your favourite guitar. He could emerge the bigger man by giving it back - no questions asked. It casts no reflection on how Gary acquired it.

It saddens me that I find myself writing  and reading about Gary in a negative light. It doesn't alter the fact that he has written recorded and performed magnificent music and that he may continue to do so. I just hope he can find a way to present not just his spectacular talent but also a more fan friendly personality. IT IS IMPORTANT

No Hits, No Hype.......................Classic Rock Jan 2012
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Re: Gibson guitar at center of rock feud.....

Tripod,
don't take this as a 'bash GM'thread. It is just a disapointmnet that Gary does not deliver what we all know he can. He is without doubt a phenomenal guitarist, but I have yet to see it in his live shows. It really is a shame.

Martin
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  • Registered: 2009-03-12
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Re: Gibson guitar at center of rock feud.....

There's something i still don't understand... why does a musician has to interact with his fans during a show? I've seen plenty of jazz, blues and rock performers who don't speak a word during their shows...and they where incredible. Music is what matters and nothing else. His treatment toward the band is questionable, but not his relation to public. Not everyone has to be like Joe Bonamassa.
I've seen gary's videos, and a song like "Thirty Days" sounds totally different to "Don't Believe A Word"...why? because he switched guitars. He needs to do that. Each song demands a specific sound. And his performance is brilliant in most of the videos from recent shows. Each video i watch is fantastic.
Perhaps you people want to hear more 80's metal stuff. But he's a rock-blues artist now. If that's the case, stick to that or don't listen to his music anymore.

Gary has always been a difficult man. He has always played for himself and wanted to be the first and the best in everything. I'm just concerned in what he offers in every new album.

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Re: Gibson guitar at center of rock feud.....

80s metal stuff lol you need to see the 'other artists' section to see what folks are generally into. Gary is about as metal as it gets. Its not about interaction with fans during the show. An acknoeledgemnt that we were there would have been nice. I think we got 4 or 5 f words, but that was about it. I agree he plays for himself. 
You really need to see him live to see what we are on about. we paid to see something that just did not happen.

Tripod wrote:

There's something i still don't understand... why does a musician has to interact with his fans during a show? I've seen plenty of jazz, blues and rock performers who don't speak a word during their shows...and they where incredible. Music is what matters and nothing else. His treatment toward the band is questionable, but not his relation to public. Not everyone has to be like Joe Bonamassa.
I've seen gary's videos, and a song like "Thirty Days" sounds totally different to "Don't Believe A Word"...why? because he switched guitars. He needs to do that. Each song demands a specific sound. And his performance is brilliant in most of the videos from recent shows. Each video i watch is fantastic.
Perhaps you people want to hear more 80's metal stuff. But he's a rock-blues artist now. If that's the case, stick to that or don't listen to his music anymore.
Gary has always been a difficult man. He has always played for himself and wanted to be the first and the best in everything. I'm just concerned in what he offers in every new album.

Martin
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  • From: Norddeutschland
  • Registered: 2008-12-03
  • Posts: 1,458

Re: Gibson guitar at center of rock feud.....

Er Tripod, 80's metal stuff - absolutely not. I watched him live through this period and the blues career that followed has been and is far superior. He did all the millions notes per second stuff back then so we knew he could.

It was that ability that made him such a stunning blues player when he shifted genre. I'm very glad that he did because he has produced his very best (IMO) in the last 20 years.

As for changing guitars of course he must, and should if the need arises and the mood takes him. This, even as just a fan I understand and welcome as it brings a visual variety as well musical. He could even use the oportunity to let us in on what he is trying to achieve with the change.

You say its about the music and only the music. Fair enough. But Gary is also in the entertainment business and he wants us to shell out our hard earned money to watch him indulge himself. Is it for our pleasure or for his? Fact is if the audience don't think you are doing it for them to at least some degree then you lose them. Maybe not the muso's who would pay to see him tuning up but that audience isn't so big and won't buy him new strings for long.

JoeB has cut back on the stage chatter for a more slick performance. But he is still building his audience and he makes up for it in general accessability. Newer artists have to do that to just get and keep their name out there.

That doesn't mean established artists can afford to sit back and take it easy. You are only interested in what is going to be on the new CD. Who's going to pay for that new work when the audience starts to dwindle away.

I've seen so far this year Richie Kotzen, David Gogo, Aynsley Lister, Ian Parker, JoeB amongst others. They could all stand and trade a few licks with Gary. They are not as established as GM but I've met them all and had the chance to chat. I've followed Garys career through Skid Row, Lizzy, G-Force, Colosseum II, Lizzy again, and his long solo blues career. Never met the guy in person. Even the autograph on the RAH ticket was got through a mate doing the trucking.

I'll be interested in his next album too. I hope its Moore and not less.

No Hits, No Hype.......................Classic Rock Jan 2012
  • Registered: 2009-03-12
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Re: Gibson guitar at center of rock feud.....

I see...

well, i think that the only way i could fully understand you is by going to one of gazza's shows. Unfortunatly, i live in South America and don't have a chance to travel to that beautiful and magic continent called Europe. The important thing is that i do respect your opinion.

  • Registered: 2008-02-14
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Re: Gibson guitar at center of rock feud.....

The other factor with Gary Moore is that he is very critical of other artists, we know what he's said about Joe and he's also criticised artists such as Brad Paisley and Matt Schofield. Many of his fans also liek these artists, so he hear him speak about them in this way can be very offputting. Fair enough a younger artist full of bravado could get away with some of these comments, but when you have Gary's age and experience you should be able to recognise that you should hesistate before speaking your mind. He's also well known for his excessive demands in a live situation, demanding a different colour backdrop at a UK festival a couple of years ago, no cameras etc. On his UK tour, he had only signed copies of Bad For You Baby for sale, but the price of £20 in my view was a little excessive. Ok, these things don't matter to the music, but they do form a negative perception of Gary even from his traditional supporters.

"The recently formed Edinburgh Blues Club has identified an appetite for the personal communication between musicians and audience that the blues long ago perfected." The Herald Newspaper (Scotland)
http://www.edinburgh-blues.uk
  • Registered: 2009-05-30
  • Posts: 25

Re: Gibson guitar at center of rock feud.....

Greenose wrote:

The other factor with Gary Moore is that he is very critical of other artists, we know what he's said about Joe and he's also criticised artists such as Brad Paisley and Matt Schofield. Many of his fans also liek these artists, so he hear him speak about them in this way can be very offputting. Fair enough a younger artist full of bravado could get away with some of these comments, but when you have Gary's age and experience you should be able to recognise that you should hesistate before speaking your mind. He's also well known for his excessive demands in a live situation, demanding a different colour backdrop at a UK festival a couple of years ago, no cameras etc. On his UK tour, he had only signed copies of Bad For You Baby for sale, but the price of £20 in my view was a little excessive. Ok, these things don't matter to the music, but they do form a negative perception of Gary even from his traditional supporters.

I had no idea he'd bad-mouthed other artists...seems very childish....and if that is the case then on a JB forum there's going to be sour grapes regarding it. If he has bad-mouthed Joe then that is gonna bite him on the **** seeing how Joe has built his following thru sheer hard work. I also haven't seen him for a good few years now but from 1982-89 I probably saw him 5 times through what most would consider his heavy metal period. I never thought of him as HM...more hard rock with a blues edge. The one criticism I can't deny is his volume. It worked better in those 80's line-ups but now I don't see how it can help. I see Sam Kelly (his drummer on the last batch of gigs in Europe) every so often. I'll have to ask him how it is to play with him.

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  • From: Detroit
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Re: Gibson guitar at center of rock feud.....

I'll say this:

When a 1959 Gibson Les Paul is at stake, that should be rightfully mine - I don't care WHO I have to sue to get it back. I don't care if your name is Gary Moore, or Les Paul himself! But that's just me.

One of the Skynrd bass/guitar players thats still alive got his '59 back that was stolen. and YEARS later. It's in some Gibson.com Lifestyle article I think. Wish I had the link.

- Nic from Detroit... posting on JB's Forum since 6-2-2006
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  • From: Stafford, England
  • Registered: 2009-02-03
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Re: Gibson guitar at center of rock feud.....

Tripod - I agree wholeheartedly with Hansamike’s comments and will support Martin in what he is saying – especially as I attended the same gig.

I really think Gary’s star is fading. I have been a Gary fan over the years – The Lizzy years were great, and Still got the Blues, which was his first real venture into the blues in 1990, was a great album, but I think those days were a little before your time. Trouble is, he’s rarely got near that standard since and has flitted between Blues and Rock for a time before deciding he is a bluesman.

Gary is a fine guitarist – no doubts there, but it takes more than that to be a great entertainer – isn’t that what the business is about? I went to the gig to be entertained – otherwise why not stay at home and listen to the CD’s? I didn’t go there to come away feeling the way I did.  I paid more to see GM than I did to see Joe the previous week at the same venue – I felt robbed.

Martin told it as it was. He and I have both attended a number of gigs by other artists recently where we felt the live performance was better than the CD’s. Sadly Gary’s was not one of them.

Gary went through several guitars on the night – I have no problem with that, but they all sounded awful – especially the Firebird  - so muddy (surprised no-one has mentioned that one).And  I don’t understand your comment  Tripod about us needing to hear more metal stuff – that is exactly what Gary is still finding hard to leave behind – there’s just too much of it still in his playing and tone for me to consider him the blues great he wants us to see him as.

You will have picked up from the other posts that Gary has been somewhat disrespectful of Joe in a recent interview, so you should understand why your opinion of Gary differs from a good many on this particular forum. Also, when guys like us pay good money to buy his CD’s and watch him play, I think we deserve a little more back than he cares to give.

As big a fan of Gary as you are, I truly hope that if you do ever get to see him live, you are not as disappointed as myself and the other guys. I know you play yourself, and it’s great to have influences such as Gary to learn from – I’ve done it myself, and who knows - if it hadn’t been for that album back in 1990, my interest in the blues may not have developed as it has.

As Martin suggested – take a look at the Other Artists section, and you’ll find plenty of other great guitarists to draw influences from, some of them younger than youself. Take a leaf out of Joe’s book and spread your net wide – you’ll end up a better player for it.

Please be in no doubt that this is the REAL ME! Beware imposters........................

29 Reply by InspiredbyJB (edited by InspiredbyJB 2009-06-05 12:05:16)

  • From: Scotland
  • Registered: 2009-05-14
  • Posts: 196

Re: Gibson guitar at center of rock feud.....

NPB_EST.1979 wrote:

I'll say this:

When a 1959 Gibson Les Paul is at stake, that should be rightfully mine - I don't care WHO I have to sue to get it back. I don't care if your name is Gary Moore, or Les Paul himself! But that's just me.

One of the Skynrd bass/guitar players thats still alive got his '59 back that was stolen. and YEARS later. It's in some Gibson.com Lifestyle article I think. Wish I had the link.

Umm.....would that be this link?

http://www.gibson.com/en-us/Lifestyle/F … rdsEdKing/

cool

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  • From: Lancashire
  • Registered: 2008-02-26
  • Posts: 700

Re: Gibson guitar at center of rock feud.....

Interesting, its precisely this why I havent forked the money out to see Gary. Blues for Greeny is one of my favourite CD's and I'd hate to see my view of gary's playing spoilt. For me that was probably his best bit of work which is ironic as it wasnt his work smile. He imo really did credit to Peter green with that CD.

  • Registered: 2009-03-12
  • Posts: 410

Re: Gibson guitar at center of rock feud.....

JohnTB wrote:

Interesting, its precisely this why I havent forked the money out to see Gary. Blues for Greeny is one of my favourite CD's and I'd hate to see my view of gary's playing spoilt. For me that was probably his best bit of work which is ironic as it wasnt his work smile. He imo really did credit to Peter green with that CD.


Back To The Blues and Close As You Get are far better albums than the tribute for PG.

  • From: Norddeutschland
  • Registered: 2008-12-03
  • Posts: 1,458

Re: Gibson guitar at center of rock feud.....

Tripod wrote:
JohnTB wrote:

Interesting, its precisely this why I havent forked the money out to see Gary. Blues for Greeny is one of my favourite CD's and I'd hate to see my view of gary's playing spoilt. For me that was probably his best bit of work which is ironic as it wasnt his work smile. He imo really did credit to Peter green with that CD.


Back To The Blues and Close As You Get are far better albums than the tribute for PG.

As had been said by others, whilst 'Still Got the Blues' was a big influence for me to get into the blues again I find "Back to the Blues" is some of his finest work, so I definately agree with you there Tripod. Also his vocals on this album were very gutsy. "How Many Lies" is one of my all time favourite Gary tracks. That said, "Driftin" from Blues for Greeny features my favourite solo and is my favourite cover of his. I have the video featuring the live performance of the BFG album and its a fine tribute to his personal hero.

So you see, it's definately not all negative about Gary. His talent can't be denied. In fact, this very thread has encouraged me to load a personal faves set of Gary's on the new mp3.

Just a final point. The guitar he is pictured with on the cover of "Back to the Blues", or one very similar to it, he used on stage at the most recent concert I saw him. With this, he had the best sound, volume and tone on the night.

No Hits, No Hype.......................Classic Rock Jan 2012
  • Registered: 2008-02-14
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Re: Gibson guitar at center of rock feud.....

hansamike wrote:

Just a final point. The guitar he is pictured with on the cover of "Back to the Blues", or one very similar to it, he used on stage at the most recent concert I saw him. With this, he had the best sound, volume and tone on the night.

Wonder where he got it from? lol lol

"The recently formed Edinburgh Blues Club has identified an appetite for the personal communication between musicians and audience that the blues long ago perfected." The Herald Newspaper (Scotland)
http://www.edinburgh-blues.uk
  • From: Norddeutschland
  • Registered: 2008-12-03
  • Posts: 1,458

Re: Gibson guitar at center of rock feud.....

Greenose wrote:
hansamike wrote:

Just a final point. The guitar he is pictured with on the cover of "Back to the Blues", or one very similar to it, he used on stage at the most recent concert I saw him. With this, he had the best sound, volume and tone on the night.

Wonder where he got it from? lol lol

Ouch! Duncan. You know how to cut to the quick. I like your style...Haha;)

No Hits, No Hype.......................Classic Rock Jan 2012
  • Registered: 2009-03-12
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Re: Gibson guitar at center of rock feud.....

In 2002 Ronnie Montrose said that his '58 Les Paul was stolen...Gary's guitar from 1959. Gary bought HIS #9-2227 in November 1989, during the recording of "Still Got The Blues" album.

"...but there's a sad story about that part of the performance. We were playing in Dudley, Massachusetts one night; I was using a '58 Les Paul Sunburst that I'd gotten from J. Geils. When the time to "switch" came, I put it on a stand like I'd always do; I went over and played bass while Dan played a white Strat. When I came back over to get my Les Paul, it was gone; there was just a strap there. That was in the days of no security, and I never did get that guitar back."



montrose you're such a lier...