• From: Massachusetts
  • Registered: 2008-10-27
  • Posts: 577

Topic: Les Paul question

Ok all of you Lespaul owners and experts I have a question for you that might have been covered already but I just gotta know....


In reissues like any of the 1950's LP's the Custom Shop uses CTS pots and Bumble Bee caps.  I own a wonderful 08 Les Paul Traditional Goldtop.  I am drawn heavily towards the classic PAF sounds of the vintage LP's.  I know a big part of it is the pickups.  The reissues use Burstbuckers 1 and 2 (Joe's Goldtop has 2 and 3) to capture the PAF sound.  My Traditional has Gibson '57 in the neck and '57 classic in the bridge.

So finally here comes the question that is bugging me...Does the CTS pots and Bumble Bee caps effect the sound as well?  Capturing the classic PAF sounds?  Is it worth changing the stock pots and caps? 

This is a huge decision for me cuz either I change them to really bring the Traditional as close to a '59 (the Traditional has just about all of the same features as the '59 reissue without the price tag) if the pots and cpas effect it or I end up spending a ton of $$$ on a '59?

On another question, is Joe's Goldtop LP considered a '59 with his mods?


HELP!!!!!!!


Barry

2009 Gibson Les Paul 1958 VOS (with black plastic)
2008 Gibson Les Paul Traditional Goldtop (with the cream plastic from the 58RI)
> Marshall Bluesbreaker 2 pedal >Boss sd-1> DD3 > Vox Ac15cc1
  • From: North Carolina
  • Registered: 2008-10-26
  • Posts: 2,926

Re: Les Paul question

No Joes guitar is not considered a 59' Les Paul.   As you said the 59' has burstbuckers 1 and 2.  If Im not mistaken the JB Les Paul has a similar neck shape of a 59' but is modeled more around a 57' Les Paul reissue which is around $3200 bucks.  I think if you'd like to get a good Les Paul sound from your stock guitar look into the RS Guitar works kit.  I have a set on a les Paul Classic and that really sounds great.  BTW I think your 57' Classics sound better then the Burstbuckers do.  Just my opinion, but both are vintage spec PAF pickups.  I'd also warn you that if you mess around with the wiring your going to hurt resale value on that guitar.

AD3THREE's Website

  • Registered: 2008-11-01
  • Posts: 103

Re: Les Paul question

I 2nd the RS guitar works kit, except I just replaced the pots and changed the caps to vitamin Q pio's which I like better than the Jensens they sell.
The regular CTS pots you have in there now won't actually sound different but the sweep isn't nearly as smooth as the RS pots are. The standard CTs pots tend to jump in volume up and down instead of the smooth transition that the super pots have.
You'll really notice it as you turn your volume and tone up and down.
As far as the bumble bee caps that come with the guitars, I think they're terrible.
There's a real difference with good poi (paper in oil) caps.
In my case I prefer the burstbuckers over the 57 classics.
I find them more pronounced and open sounding but that's just the way I hear it.

You described your guitar as wonderful so I'm assuming you're basically very happy with it.
Changing to RS pots and pio caps won't make it sound like a different guitar, they'll just make it more usable and the caps will give it nicer tone when you roll down the pots.
Your guitar isn't collectable and I can't see it hurting the resale value when you're actually upgrading the electronics.
If you're on the fence about keeping it then maybe changing the pots and caps isn't what you want but even if you go for a 59( I'm assuming you mean a 59 historic), one of the first things a lot of owners do is switch out the electronics for RS super pots and pio caps.

  • Registered: 2007-09-30
  • Posts: 556

Re: Les Paul question

Honestly I find the pots and caps in the Gibsons stock are fine.  If they aren't smooth they need to be broken in.  No lie.  Also I'd dump the 57's and go for some BB's, either 1,2,3, or the pros.  The 57's are too shrill.

Ben

5 Reply by Slidewinder (edited by Slidewinder 2009-01-23 01:38:29)

  • Registered: 2008-11-01
  • Posts: 103

Re: Les Paul question

GoT MuLe 31788 wrote:

If they aren't smooth they need to be broken in.

Sorry but I have to disagree with you there. My historic was 4 years old when I bought it. Those pots were well broken in and I used it solid for about 2 months before deciding to change to the superpots.
I do a lot of volume changing throughout songs and the regular CTS pots just weren't cutting it. I was getting almost no change from 10-8, then a drop, then from 7-5 almost nothing, then another drop. From 4-3 no drop at all, then from 3-2 a drastic drop and then from 2 down no volume.
They have silkscreen wipers which can have a number of blank spots while the super pots are heavier carbon wipers.
I put those pots into 7 other guitars for other players since then and it was the same for each one. While the drops weren't at the same spot in each guitar it was a jerky kind of drop or rise in volume with the regular pots.
I hope I haven't opened up a can of worms here but there really is a difference.

  • From: North Carolina
  • Registered: 2008-10-26
  • Posts: 2,926

Re: Les Paul question

I cant help but disagree about resale value.  Collectors are not looking for 2008 Les Pauls now but if you go back to any Les Paul 5 to 10 years old on Ebay or whatever as soon as you tell them that the original electronics have been replaced that thorws up flags.  Believe me I know I have had to sale a lot of my guitars in the past 3 years and the ones I didn't touch I 90% return on them.  Guitars with mods even if you kept the original parts your looking at 70% return on them.  Why?  Because if you had the choice of a original prestin guitar with no mods no broken solder Joints and plenty of choices to choose from at a higher price or would you be looking for one that someone messed around with that might have the original parts to it but certainly isn't the original solder joints.  I'd go with the modded guitar because I know I could buy it cheaper then the stock guitar that more then likely isn't as good electronicly but is stock and you'll know what your getting. So yeah it being a year old it might not lose resale value but I had a 2001 SG Standard I paid $1200 for new.  I sold it last year for $800 on Ebay before the stock market crashed.  You could pick these guitars up for $600 now I bet.  But the reason it sold for what it did and not for the price I wanted, I did mods to it.  RS Guitar works kit, BURSTBUCKERS 1 & 2, Tone Pro's Bridge and all I got was $800 out of it.  If you do decide to mod it make sure you keep it.  You will not get a good return on your guitar and all those mods add up too.  At the very least keep all your parts so if you do sale you can go back to the original parts at the very least.  The Broken solder Joints will hurt you a little but it would be as close to original as you can get.  Bottom line is its a trade off.  Tone and Flexablility or Tone and Resale Value.  Whats more import to you.  I just know I sure do wish I had kept my SG stock.  Ok I'm done sorry that was long but I had to get that one out.

AD3THREE's Website

  • From: North Carolina
  • Registered: 2008-10-26
  • Posts: 2,926

Re: Les Paul question

Also wanted to add that the Traditional has the Gibson brand pots not CTS, CTS are only in Historic models.  The Super Pot is CTS but they spec it out for what they want so the tolerences are better.  You only needed to put these in the Volume position as the tone pot is just a plain old CTS pot and doesen't need to have that tight of a spec.  If you bought 4 super pots you'd waist your money on 2 of them. 


BTW I like the 57' classics because you get that creamy sound.  I think of Clapton when I hear them and if you like wax potting you might miss it on the Burstbucker at higher volumes.

AD3THREE's Website

  • Registered: 2007-11-04
  • Posts: 404

Re: Les Paul question

I like my 2007 R8 just as it is. 100% stock.  The tone controls are not bad enough that they make me a worse player. The volumes turn the guitar volume up and down. It sounds fantastic.  If you need to spend hundreds of dollars trying to turn a 2500 dollar guitar into a 59 reissue then look into the 58 reissue.  I bought my guitar for 2650. Brand new.

Rather than turn one guitar into another just go buy the one you want.  Some complain that the 58 neck is to big.  Whatever... I have the smallest hands in the world with short fat fingers and a 58 neck feels fine. 

Dont get trapped in the horrible world of changing pickups and tuners and tailpieces and tones and volumes and switches and then going thru and changing them again and again and again.  You'll never be happy.

I say buy a guitar you want.  Maybe switch a pickup if it really bothers you.  I doubt the Traditional you have is that bad of a guitar it warrents all the work some have suggested.

  • From: Massachusetts
  • Registered: 2008-10-27
  • Posts: 577

Re: Les Paul question

Thanks for all of your input.  I will definitely think about getting a '59 reissue.  I talked things over with a few friends too and they said, if I am happy with the Tradition's sound and it speaks to me (and I agree, I hear the Claptonish sound from the '57 pups), I shouldn't do anything to it.  So now I have to think about selling a few guitars to get the '59.  The '59 with the BB's definitely have a different voice.  Or I can spend a little less and get a new JB les Paul...an unaged one...I love the unaged ones....


Thanks again for all of your insights!!!

Barry

2009 Gibson Les Paul 1958 VOS (with black plastic)
2008 Gibson Les Paul Traditional Goldtop (with the cream plastic from the 58RI)
> Marshall Bluesbreaker 2 pedal >Boss sd-1> DD3 > Vox Ac15cc1
  • From: Was NY now FL/GA line
  • Registered: 2007-12-16
  • Posts: 2,855

Re: Les Paul question

I disagree if the mods are done professionally and are done correctly to enhance playability/tone, then it doesn't affect value. I sell to players not collectors. All of them are content with the modifications I've done. If you want to buy just to only put it away and never touch it, then don't touch it, don't modify it. Collectors like that. But why did you buy the guitar in the first place? To own say you have it or to play it???

  • From: North Carolina
  • Registered: 2008-10-26
  • Posts: 2,926

Re: Les Paul question

All of my guitars are modded now but I wasn't suggesting that you shouldn't mod one.  I am suggesting that if your putting it up on ebay a stock guitar will sale for a better price then the modded guitars ever will professional upgrades or not.  I love to mod guitars and the SG I was refering to was setup professionally by a qualifyed Gibson repair man.  Even with that it sold for $800 and one exactly like mine with no mods sold for $1000 that same week.  If you change it, you won't get all your money out of it later.  Plus look at all the extra money your sinking into it.  Thats all I'm saying.  Change it to keep it!

Spider wrote:

I disagree if the mods are done professionally and are done correctly to enhance playability/tone, then it doesn't affect value. I sell to players not collectors. All of them are content with the modifications I've done. If you want to buy just to only put it away and never touch it, then don't touch it, don't modify it. Collectors like that. But why did you buy the guitar in the first place? To own say you have it or to play it???

AD3THREE's Website

  • From: Detroit
  • Registered: 2006-06-02
  • Posts: 5,807

Re: Les Paul question

AD3THREE wrote:

I cant help but disagree about resale value.  Collectors are not looking for 2008 Les Pauls now but if you go back to any Les Paul 5 to 10 years old on Ebay or whatever as soon as you tell them that the original electronics have been replaced that throws up flags.

C'mon, its not like they're plugging holes in their 1963 SG Bigsby body to convert it to a tune o matic with stopbar. Those things were nasty! I think as long as you keep the original electronics, and can offer them when the guitar is being sold... no harm no foul.

- Nic from Detroit... posting on JB's Forum since 6-2-2006
Ask me about my handwound Great Lakes Guitar Pickups
Since 2010, Bonamassa fans have taken advantage of my JB friend discount = my cost + shipping. cool
  • Registered: 2006-05-12
  • Posts: 74

Re: Les Paul question

I bought an '08 LP Classic which had a 496 and a 500 in it. Dumped them ... installed an RS kit and a set of of '57 classics and I would stand it up for tone , playablity and versatility of sound against most anyone's. RS kits are a great upgrade. BTW: I've got a friend who bought a vintage pair of PAF's (verified)  for $4000 and it's hard to justify that kind of money when you A/B it against any good LP with Classic 57's or some BB's.

14 Reply by Bailz (edited by Bailz 2009-01-28 06:35:44)

  • Bailz
  • Bailz
  • Silver Member
  • Offline
  • From: Aberdeen, Scotland
  • Registered: 2009-01-05
  • Posts: 60

Re: Les Paul question

I recently pulled the trigger on '08 Les Paul Custom with CTS pots and Bumblebee caps. I A/B'd it with a Custom with standard electronics and it blew it out the water. Thick and creamy tone that dirties up really nicely too.

It's fitted with a 490R in the neck and 498T.