Clapton discussion (Page 1 of 6)

This is my argument, excuse the copy and paste:

Here's a question for all you Clapton fans: when do you ever hear a blues band, or rock band say here's a song written by Eric Clapton?
The truth is you don't. Whilst there is no doubt that Clapton recording some of the earliest British blues rock with the Yardbirds and did a superb blues album with John Mayall (his best output) and was innovative with Cream, he really has not left a huge impression on the blues rock scene at all. He has actually written so few blues rock songs of note himself, er maybe Layla (the best part of which was recorded by Allman) and Sunshine of Your Love (a cowrite). His contemporaries like Hendrix, Peter Green, Page and Rory Gallagher left us with classic song after classic song, Clapton did not. He was great as a guitar for hire, but as a solo artist he has done very little at all.  Even when he returned to the blues for From The Cradle, the songs he chose where well worn blues standards rather than producing anything creative. Clapton lost his fire nearly 40 years ago, and is not worthy of the praise that so many (admittedly Americans) seem to give him. Never has one with such god given talent provided so little, its a crime.

In respect of my comparison with Peter Green further to Deezer's comment, I said the following:

First point I’d like to address through is about Peter Green, much of the work that he did even with Fleetwood Mac was not strictly blues. While the first two albums were superb blues rock which had has been highly influential and covered by artists as diverse as Santana, Aerosmith and Gary Moore, his latter work covered a far greater range. Albatross was a superb instrumental which impressed even classical music fans. Need Your Love So Bad was blues with string before BB King recorded The Thrill Has Gone. While Clapton was recording Layla, Green was recording Oh Well, both of which go beyond blues rock. Whilst Layla features nice piano and slide, Oh Well part two is classical acoustic guitar.  Green was recording tracks as mournful as Tears In Heaven back in 1969 with Man Of The World. Green Manalishi was prototype heavy metal. Peter Green’s solo career was blighted by mental illness, yet he still managed to dabble with African and Asian influences, Clapton simply went for a pop rock angle which while more successful, was not particularly distinctive. Wasn't it BB King himself who told Clapton and George Harrison that Peter Green was a better player?

My own view is that whilst his work with Yardbirds, Mayall and Cream in particular was influential and I love most of it, there's little merit to be found in Clapton's solo career which has not been innovative to my ears (maybe he works best with a Mayall or Bruce along side).  I suspect Clapton’s solo career has been a disappointment to even him.  Take a look at the setlist he plays these days, full of blues standards, if he wrote so many timeless songs, why doesn't he play them?

I personally find even Clapton’s blues covers to be disappointing. When he has gone back to the blues he has chosen the well trodden blues standards that you can find on any blues compilation, Hoochie Coochie Man, Reconsider Baby, Five Long Years, Double Trouble.  While back in Cream he recording bang up to date versions of songs such as Crossroads and Spoonful, his recent version of Travelling Riverside Blues from his Robert Johnson album (a well covered artist if there ever was one) takes it forward no further than Muddy Water’s Louisiana Blues.  As Joe himself has said, the covers you record help define you as an artist, Clapton however has chosen to record blues covers easily found elsewhere. Compare that to say Rory Gallagher and you will see a difference, Gallagher was prepared to find obscure tracks by the likes of Blind Boy Fuller, Bo Carter and Tony Joe White and put his own style on them, he would also play celtic and country tunes, even jazz.  Much in the same way a casual blues rock fan may only listen to Clapton and Stevie Ray Vaughan, Clapton has not studied hard when it comes to the blues.  My closing statement would probably be that I’d urge those of you who listen regularly to artists such as Clapton and Vaughan to expand your listening tastes to less heralded guys like Green, Gallagher, Kossoff, Beck etc, Joe has and the benefit can be heard in his music.

To elaborate a little further, this is not about whether Clapton should play the blues or not, rather his solo career has not reached the heights of his earlier band work and that when he does play blues as a solo artist he has lacked the creative spirit to offer something new to the genre.  I feel the title of best well known living bluesman is unfounded and unworthy.

Would love to hear others points of view!

So why is he so popular?

Maybe it's because his life has been published like a tabloid. "Clapton is God" is a hell of a claim to live down and he was embarrased beyond belief by that. We all (I'm 60) grew up with him and saw him evolve through the Yardbirds, Cream et al. We also saw his life unfold, through drugs and relationships and the sad loss of his son. My feeling is that we shared these events, they became personal to us and we latched on to them. He is a great player, of that there is no doubt. His style is instantly recognisable, now THAT is the mark of a great musician.

He is an ENTERTAINER. He knows what works, he knows what people want at a concert and gives them that. Maybe it's not what the purists want to hear, but hey, how many purists can sell out the Royal Albert Hall six nights on the trot!

My guess is that Joe will be following the same footpath, but hopefully without the bad times that Eric endured!

We were talking about influence, not how diverse someone is. As you said, how many bands today say, today we're going to play a Peter Green song? Green can record whatever he wanted to, but the point of the matter is, these "bands" are probably going to play two songs: "Oh Well" and "Black Magic Woman," and one of them they're probably going to think is by Santana. I love Peter Green quite a bit, but come on, if we're talking influence over the electric guitar, over music in general, it's not even a question. And I believe it is really overgeneralizing to say Clapton just went the pop angle. That's just utter bullcrap. I'm sorry, but how are songs like Let It Grow and Lay Down Sally and Promises pop? Heck, two of them are old-school country!

And I will say that most of your points about Clapton doing blues covers reference two albums: From The Cradle and Me & Mr. Johnson. Two albums where he said explicitly he wanted to pay tribute.

Clapton hasn't studied the blues very hard? My "friend," you know nothing about Eric Clapton. Clapton has forgotten more about the blues than most of us here will ever know. I disagree vehemently with everything you say about Clapton. There is a distinct reason why he's Eric Clapton, and we're sitting here talking about Eric Clapton. In the end, let the haters hate, because he's still THE Eric Clapton, the most influential guitar player right there with Hendrix, Page, Vaughan, Beck, and Van Halen.

Just a couple of random thoughts, that touch on some of the comments here...To get deep into this Clapton discussion, I don't have the time right now to put it all into words... Mr. Eric Clapton himself often wondered why so many thought he was a god...he escaped to Delaney and Bonnie when he wanted to be a guitar playing band member and not a band leader and to get out of the limelight. Delaney Bramlett just passed away...think Let It Rain, as a co-write. Eric never thinks of himself as a great songwriter either. He is his own worse critic and always has been.

Eric Clapton is the ultimate chameleon...a man of many moods, for sure, and his music reflects that 100%.  If he stayed 100% focused on the Blues, we may or may not be having this discussion!  So, It's Like That in a short synopsis!

When my older brother turned me on to Cream and Blind Faith back in the day, I never gave a second thought to what was the blues or who wrote what.  Many things about Clapton at that time caught on to a large number of folks and the snowball started to roll and get bigger and bigger.  Clapton's lifestyle added to his aura and he was always experimenting with new musical sounds, tone, gear...in essence he was like the perfect storm!!! Like a Monday morning quarterback, its always easier to go back and pick the game apart, but while its happening, sometimes its hard to get the game under control.  Lots of factors go into the Clapton mix, including other musicians connection to him...paraphrasing Joe...Clapton is the one that impressed him guitarwise, made him want to play an electric guitar! Musicians at the time related to Clapton as well, he continues to influence guitarists.

I often have wondered WHY Americans are hooked on reality TV (I think its dreadful) and why Americans jump on a politician's bandwagon while wearing blinders to the facts at hand, (maybe its like the fairy tale of the Emperor's new clothes) simply said, Majority rules!  I for one cut Clapton slack on some of his poppy stuff, his catalog is large enough that there is lots of other music to listen to.  Like a lot of people I love, I take the good with the bad.

Clapton's soul is comfortable in the blues.  Whether Clapton is offering up something new or not, I've never deeply analyzed it...I just know it speaks to me when I hear him sing the blues and that's good enough for me...:) Also, when you can really relate to the lyrics on the most personal of levels, being hooked on the music digs a little deeper...  Dug this up on youtube last night...And the bottom line of ALL the bottom lines...its subjective, different strokes for different folks...vanilla vs. chocolate ice cream favorite...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yBilW9cPfDA

No, I said Fleetwood Mac became more famous after Peter Green left. Big difference.

Okay, since you must push the point, songs I have heard by other bands I've seen live that Clapton's done:

Old Love
Pretending
Cocaine
Let It Rain
Layla
Wonderful Tonight
Bad Love
My Father's Eyes
River Of Tears
Running On Faith
I Shot The Sheriff
After Midnight
Signe
Tell The Truth
Why Does Love Got To Be So Sad

Of course, some aren't of his writing, but honestly, that doesn't mean a tinker's damn. These are from local bands I've heard the most. Bar bands, if you will. But to be honest, the only Peter Green song I've ever heard was when I saw KWS and he did Oh Well. But then again, I haven't been to a Santana show to hear Black Magic Woman.

And I'm sorry, Lay Down Sally is not a pop song. Big difference between country music and pop, especially back then.

And while Mayall was quite influential on getting Clapton to woodshed and exposing him to different blues artists, even before that point he knew more than any of us.

You can say all you want about him, but the point is he's Eric Clapton, and you and I are two goofs on a message board talking about him.

Here's your two quotes Deezer. You implied that the work of Peter Green's was all in the blues/rock genre, unlike Mac's later work, my explanation was to show that was not the case. 

I'm not going to get to listing songs, assuming you've seen Joe live within the last two years you've heard at least two more covers of songs Green performed on than you've mentioned: Another Kind Of Love and So Many Roads. Again I supect a British born guitarist would be more likely to cover Green than an American due to a higher profile in his homeland than the USA, so that may partly explain our differing perceptions. Likewise Tony Ionni would be seen as more influential in the UK than Van Halen.

I was not keen to make this a comparison between the two guitarists as I love Clapton's work with Cream, Yardbirds and with Mayall almost as much as I do early Fleetwood Mac and Green with Mayall. Therefore I am not a Clapton hater, I just think that his solo work has fallen beneath the high standards to which he used to perform and he is given too much significance when he was but one in a generation of very fine and talented guitarists.

Deezer, we have pretty entrenched positions on this, therefore I'm keen to hear the opinions of others also on the subject.

I've said this before.  We are entitled to our opinions, right or wrong is not really the issue.

Without denying the genius of Peter Green, he's not the factor in todays music that Eric Clapton is.  Who is qualified to say that one is more or less deserving of how much significance is attached (to one or the other).  The public has decided.

I do not argue with success.  If you are making money in the music business and you can assemble the finest musicians in the world by picking up your phone, you are a success.  You can be miserable and unlucky in love, but musically you are a success.

What I don't understand is the lack of originality stand.  There is NOTHING original in music...No there isn't.  Not really.  Here's an old cover or two for the old heads that don't care about originality:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3wX1wn-0go

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOVzgija … re=related

And one original:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7Ek2uSd … re=related

My opinion?  He's still got it.  Poor Peter (May God LOVE him...I do) no longer does.

The Funky Dr's opinion.

"Its a sad state of affairs where people only know the Clapton version's of these songs rather than for example the magic of Muddy's original version of Hoochie Coochie Man"

lol so odd Ive had the essential Muddy album on in my car today someone bought it me for xmas brilliant cd the guy plays such simple stuff yet has you hooked it really is a joy to listen to...

I think Greenose that Clapton atleast opens peoples ears to the likes of Muddy, Clapton and Hendrix after all got me into blues and look at that can of worms they opened im practically obsessed with it

Since getting into Peter Green I really can say I cant get enough the guy certainly had soul, in his singing, his lyrics and most of all his guitar playing but at the end of the day if it wasnt for Clapton and Hendrix I wouldnt be listening to it at all or even playing guitar.... heh because of Peter Green my les paul is my main guitar now and my 2 very fine strats are in the cases all the time....

I think Angelas right though its like Vanilla vs Chocolate ice cream you either love it or hate it there is no winners here, it is nice to see how people have been influenced though and how they got into who they listen to..