1 Topic by JohnTB (edited by JohnTB 2008-04-03 10:42:46)

  • From: Lancashire
  • Registered: 2008-02-26
  • Posts: 700

Topic: Cutting through the mix...

Need a spot of help :x

We recently lost a bassist, we managed to get on with out and it was going great we had a good sound going on Drums and 2 Guitars...

Now the problem sad we aquired a new bassist (absolutely brilliant bassist) however my guitar just isnt making a sound now (well it is but its getting lost you know what I mean smile)

I tried messing with my EQ which always has been around 9 treble 3 bass and 9 mid (blues deluxe is very bassy) I just cudnt cut through with out using the bridge pick up which I rarely use and it just sounded really harsh trying to play rhythm on it (fine when its getting driven but I much prefer the neck for cleans)..

as soon as the bassist stopped my guitar filled out so much such a sweet sound too sad not quite sure where to start though... they simply said to turn up which I know isnt the answer I dont want a volume war its clear my guitar is clashing with the basses frequencies.. We only get to practise properly once a week atm due to work etc so I dont wanna be messing with my amp all night uno? btw low volume is great you can hear everything..

The other guitarist has a Blues deville (basically same amp) his EQ is 0 Bass 0 Mid 12 Treb 12 Presence. Sounds suprisingly good with his es-335.

Ive never run into this problem before so anyhelp would be appreciated smile

  • From: East Tennessee
  • Registered: 2006-04-25
  • Posts: 240

Re: Cutting through the mix...

Maybe the new bassist is running a lot of midrange in his tone which could really fight with your tone. Maybe he could roll off a little midrange and see what happens. Hopefully you'll find a place you can both live in. Otherwise, crank it up!

Blessings,
Larry

"...play skillfully and shout for joy." Psalm 33:3b (honest, it really says that)
  • jim m
  • jim m
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  • From: Okie City, OK
  • Registered: 2006-04-24
  • Posts: 3,429

Re: Cutting through the mix...

Running sound in a club for a year helped form my opinion that many bass players play too loud. It is one thing FOH can't do anything with because the stage volume overwhelms everything.

The offending bass player just doesn't comprehend how loud it is out front. They stand close to the cab and it blows right by them. Tell him to turn it down and if he can't hear it give him a monitor with it in his mix or have him tilt his amp towards him or stand farther away. If he has a stack and it is ear level and he still can't hear then you're in trouble.

Carmine uses a shield like Joe's now and he has gotten used to it. Helps to not muddy the mix coming from the FOH.

jim m's Website

4 Reply by kwsjb1238 (edited by kwsjb1238 2008-04-03 18:36:47)

  • From: Tampa, Fl.
  • Registered: 2006-04-22
  • Posts: 870

Re: Cutting through the mix...

jim m wrote:

Running sound in a club for a year helped form my opinion that many bass players play too loud. It is one thing FOH can't do anything with because the stage volume overwhelms everything.

The offending bass player just doesn't comprehend how loud it is out front. They stand close to the cab and it blows right by them. Tell him to turn it down and if he can't hear it give him a monitor with it in his mix or have him tilt his amp towards him or stand farther away. If he has a stack and it is ear level and he still can't hear then you're in trouble.

Carmine uses a shield like Joe's now and he has gotten used to it. Helps to not muddy the mix coming from the FOH.

I've had the same problem a lot - I just ran sound for an event here on campus and the bass player had his amp turned all the way up - extremely loud for a venue that is not that large (it was our smaller theater) - all you could hear was the bass... the entire building was shaking from it and it wasn't even mic'd!!!  Completely ruined the sound for the entire event!  (Luckily it wasn't a huge event so it wasn't as bad as it could've been)... plus during that I realized just how s**** a guitar sounds through a PA with no amp (only a multi-effects pedal) - NOT GOOD!!!  I always knew it sounded bad but not THAT bad... anyways, thats for a different time... back on subject:

But yeah, as Jim said, make sure the bass doesn't have too much mid in there - it seems like you should have enough, but I'd maybe suggest putting bringing the treble down a bit and the bass up a hair and depending on how much distortion you have on it, maybe turn that down a bit - you'd be suprised how much better a clean guitar cuts through compared to a distorted guitar

Also, if you have a non-master vol amp that you don't have all the way up (or a master vol. amp with an effects loop), you should try a boost of some sort... the trick with these is that you need it AFTER the gain stage (for example if you have a Fender Twin and a distortion pedal in front of it (my setup for a while) you need to run it after the pedal, or if there's an effects loop, run it in that)... if you run it before the gain stage, all you're doing is boosting the gain (which gets you more lost in the mix because of the loss of definition of individual notes) and that's not good... This also doesnt' work too well if the tubes are already pushing as much as they can ([master] vol. on 10) cause then you'll just be adding power tube distortion (not necessarily a bad thing - thats actually the best sounding distortion - extremely harmonically rich etc. smile )...

Hope some of that helps (and makes sense - i'm not really into re-reading my posts smile )

Good luck!

Scott

P.S. if all else fails, get a non-master volume 100-watt stack (Marshall or some other) and CRANK IT!!!!  That'll do the trick!

"Interestingly, according to modern astronomers, space is finite. This is a very comforting thought-- particularly for people who can never remember where they have left things." - Woody Allen

http://www.last.fm/user/skynyrd128

5 Reply by JohnTB (edited by JohnTB 2008-04-03 18:44:19)

  • From: Lancashire
  • Registered: 2008-02-26
  • Posts: 700

Re: Cutting through the mix...

kwsjb1238 wrote:

P.S. if all else fails, get a non-master volume 100-watt stack (Marshall or some other) and CRANK IT!!!!  That'll do the trick!

I wish smile

Ill check his mid range etc, he wasnt playing particularly loud my guitar just seemed to lose all definition when he was playing sad the treble is only so high because for some reason it doesnt seem to do anything until you hit 9 :x

Cheers again guys

  • Registered: 2007-11-25
  • Posts: 143

Re: Cutting through the mix...

crank your mids.  Everyone just needs to stop playing/jamming at the beginning of practice and tell them what's up without sounding like an ****.  Just tell the drummer to lay down a simple beat and then have the bass come in at a level to match the drums so the mix is good.  Let them groove for a bit until it sounds really nice...and then have the guitar jump on board.  This way you'll all be happy with your levels, sound, tone, mix, etc etc.  Should help.  Make sure you are all positioned correctly and experiment until it works.  What good is a practice if you can't hear yourself.  I think alot of times people/bandmates want to hear themselves and they want their bandmates to hear them as well.  After a long practice, volumes seems to climb and often times things get muddy, loud, and eventually unproductive.   Give these things a try and be honest with your bassist without sounding like a big 'ole jerk.

  • SRVTWO
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  • Registered: 2007-12-03
  • Posts: 59

Re: Cutting through the mix...

Here is a couple few things to try.
1.  Set up away from the bass player.  If possible you setup on the other side of the stage.  At least get your amp as far from his amp as possible.
2.  Tilt back or get it up.  Pick up some of the kick back legs to point your amp at your head or an amp stand to get your amp closer to ear level.
3.  Run a monitor mix for yourself.

I know none of these things address tone settings but I have found playing in every shi$$y bar to very big stages that I need first and foremost to worry about me.  Being a flexible and easygoing musician has landed me far more gigs than telling others how to run their stuff.  I say this because most musicians do not take suggestions or criticism well at all (oddly this goes away the more professional and longer somebody has been in the business wink ).  If the bass player asks or is willing, tell him to take it down a notch but if this isn't possible find away to make it work.  I have done whole gigs were I could not hear my guitar and it SUCKED but I found my way through and fixed the problem next go round.  Whatever you do dont become the problem. Keep your volume where it should be and listen to whomever is running sound.  If the guy out front says it sounds good then figure away to make it work.  Good luck.
Mike