Topic: The amp baffle???

I am totally intrigued by the plexi baffle Joe uses in front of his cabs.
Now, to me, the use of them would suggest that the sound out front would sound muffled, but clearly it is not. Would merely turning the cabs to face backward not have the same effect? How much volume do the baffles actually attenuate?
I ask really, because i would love to try it, over here in UK, certainly were I gig, volume is always an issue with the venues, bands always seem to be 'to loud' and turning down the volume on a valve guitar amp is not what we want, being able to do what Joe does, amp volume way up (as it should be (for tone) )and having the front of house volume at an acceptable level would be great. I have tried the 'turn the cab round' way of thinking, but it does not sound right to my ears. So, who among us has/does use this 'trick'

Jon

Crazy old Scottish person, still playing, still learning.

Re: The amp baffle???

Hi Jock,

it allows Joe to have amps cranked up(But mic'd into PA) ....so the volume is more controlled etc.....and not taking off audiences heads in the front row...they get the mic'd pa sound.....so does Joe through his guitar wedge monitors......it also allows for a more controlled onstage sound.....

Its a very clever system as it allows him to pretty much sort his tone and volume at any gig quickly....small or large...without altering his volume or tone.....as we all know once you start changing volumes on amps...you normally have to tweak Eq also..

He uses this sytem at small and big gigs...very clever I think...as his tone never suffers....

Cheers

Martin

Les Paul 95 Gibson standard, Marshall DSL 100, 4x12 straight faced B cab,Vox AC15TBXRI, Carl Martin Hot 'n' Drive boost, Deluxe Memoryman delay, Electric Mistress, Mango amps treble Booster(Dallas Rangemaster clone), Boss GE7

3 (edited by Nightfly 2008-03-16 09:39:48)

Re: The amp baffle???

I know Gary Moore had an off stage case at one point with his amps in, miked up and run at full volume to get his tone. He had no on-stage amps ... not sure if he's still doing that now but i imagine you have to be pretty confident your not going to need to change anything during the gig. I'm also quite interested to understand why Joe (and others who do this) don't just use a power soak instead, i'm mean the audience will be protected but the onstage sound must still be pretty loud from those amps even with the baffles. The band i'm in gets very loud and its all down to the drummer, we set the guitars level then do a sound check and have to ramp the guitars up to meet the (very loud)drummer. I've even started to wear in-ear protectors cos i'm worried about the damage. Heaven help our audience.

Besides all that ... I think Joe is blending 2 tones together to get what he wants so the PA sound is the end result, without the baffle you wouldn't be able to garantee the ballance from the PA being dominant.

Nightfly

Re: The amp baffle???

jockman wrote:

I am totally intrigued by the plexi baffle Joe uses in front of his cabs.
Now, to me, the use of them would suggest that the sound out front would sound muffled, but clearly it is not. Would merely turning the cabs to face backward not have the same effect? How much volume do the baffles actually attenuate?
I ask really, because i would love to try it, over here in UK, certainly were I gig, volume is always an issue with the venues, bands always seem to be 'to loud' and turning down the volume on a valve guitar amp is not what we want, being able to do what Joe does, amp volume way up (as it should be (for tone) )and having the front of house volume at an acceptable level would be great. I have tried the 'turn the cab round' way of thinking, but it does not sound right to my ears. So, who among us has/does use this 'trick'

Jon

Jon because Joe is standing ear level above the shield he hears what is coming out of the amps. There is nothing in his monitors but vocals. Turning the amps around dosen't really accomplish the same thing but it would be a start. If the back wall in the room reflects too much then it is still too loud for a small room.

Another way is to point the amp like a monitor in front of you facing you not the audience. Or side stage. This method just allows you to not have to turn up so loud to hear yourself. If you really want to keep the amp volume up you need to shield it and have some sound deadning surface behind it. Go to www.clearsonic.com for amp shields and sound deadning products.

Joe's shields are custom made sizes you can't get  from Clear Sonic.

Re: The amp baffle???

I had a major problem once with my drummer always wanting the amps turned up, and everyone in the bars thinking it was too loud.

Solution: put the amps behind the drummer (instead of on the sides of the drummer) so the sound has to go through him first.

- Nic from Detroit... posting on JB's Forum since 6-2-2006
Ask me about my handwound Great Lakes Guitar Pickups
Since 2010, Bonamassa fans have taken advantage of my JB friend discount = my cost + shipping. cool

Re: The amp baffle???

Thanks for the replies.
I, like all guitarists, just want the amp to sound good, and, again, as we all know, a 50/100 watt amp NEEDS to be turned up to a decent level, that unfortunatley results in complaints. To me, turning the amp away from me just makes me more 'paranoid' that the sound is not right.
I am on my way to have a look at the screens via the link above (thanks for that). I reckon it could be the answer.

Jon

Crazy old Scottish person, still playing, still learning.

Re: The amp baffle???

Great, there is a UK distributor... http://www.ashdownav.com/home.php
Only 15 minute drive from my home. Hoorah!!

I have mailed them, and will post the reply for pricing etc.

Crazy old Scottish person, still playing, still learning.

Re: The amp baffle???

This is a great post. I asked Joe about this the second time I saw him at Pacific Road. His answer was simple, it helps protect him and the front lines of the audience from serious damage. LOL. If you also take a close look at the way Dave sets up the mics in front of Joe's speakers, they are not directly in front of the centre of the speaker cones but at the edge. This was pointed out to me by Michael Parker, lead guitarist of Stone Soul River, who supported Joe on his last tour of the UK - gives a much crisper, clearer sound!! These sound screens are also used around drummers - Walter Trout's drummer Joey Parfumi uses a huge one - allowing the drummer's sound to be attenuated and mixed through the PA too I suspect!

http://www.flickr.com/photos/12559573@N … 470510312/

Regards

Geoff O

Visit my Casino Images website http://www.casino-images.com/

Re: The amp baffle???

Actually, Joe explains here quite well here

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bL8VaOg70F8

regards

Geoff

Geoff O

Visit my Casino Images website http://www.casino-images.com/

Re: The amp baffle???

jockman wrote:

Thanks for the replies.
I, like all guitarists, just want the amp to sound good, and, again, as we all know, a 50/100 watt amp NEEDS to be turned up to a decent level, that unfortunatley results in complaints. To me, turning the amp away from me just makes me more 'paranoid' that the sound is not right.
I am on my way to have a look at the screens via the link above (thanks for that). I reckon it could be the answer.

Jon

C'mon - you're tossing out a gold mine!
Make a dime out of it and sell earplugs at your t-shirt/cd booth!

just kidding...but not really. Earplugs are a necessity.

- Nic from Detroit... posting on JB's Forum since 6-2-2006
Ask me about my handwound Great Lakes Guitar Pickups
Since 2010, Bonamassa fans have taken advantage of my JB friend discount = my cost + shipping. cool

Re: The amp baffle???

:x < hasnt needed to get that loud yet :s been at alot small gigs where ppl are just far too loud though competing for volume I always put it at specially lead guitarists :x

12

Re: The amp baffle???

I still wanna know why there's an Om sticker on the baffle?????

never give up, never slow down
never grow old, never ever die young

Re: The amp baffle???

Ok, they cost a whopping £95, US price $120. £95 = $193, bit of a difference. BUT, how much would i be willing to spend on a quality OD pedal, or any pedal really to get 'that' sound. Getting the baffles seems to me to be reasonable value, as we all know, whacking up that volume control on your amp results in a stunning tone, use your guitar volume knob, yes, just like Joe, and you have a whole knew pallete of tones, so, yes, I would say they are worth it, I will have to dig into my "wife knows nothing about it" stash on paypal, there purely to satisfy my GAS, and as I said, the seller is only a short drive away...
When I get them, I will let you know the result.

Jon

Crazy old Scottish person, still playing, still learning.

Re: The amp baffle???

I should point out, that my amp is an old '70's Carlsbro 50top combo, modded to use KT88's and with an EV12L, it is a single channel, non master volume, no fx loops, reverb and as simple a build as you can get, this setup gives me MY sound, when the volume is whacked way up, I have to use 2 od pedals, low gain ones, a RC booster and an MI-Audio tubezone, both set up to as close to unity as I can get, I use the guitar volume to control the 'dirt', I also have a Yamaha Magicstomp at the end, purely for reverb and delay, (only 2 patches set up) The master volume on the magicstomp acts as a type of 'master' volume, great for home use and small room gigs.

Jon

Crazy old Scottish person, still playing, still learning.

15 (edited by JohnTB 2008-03-18 08:25:10)

Re: The amp baffle???

Jockman i dont really know alot about these, but from what I can see its acrylic and the same sort of cloth backing used on cheap office chairs... why dont u try and make a simple baffle? acrylic is fairly cheap u only need to devise a way to make it stand up and not fall over due to the sound etc.. I dunno just a thought whilst im bored at work smile


Quick edit Im that bored smile   ok from what I can tell  15mm Thick x 450mm Width x 600mm Height which i think is about 18" x 2' (roughly used my head :x) and the thickness should be slightly thicker then the 1/4" clearsonic do..

Anyhow 1 sheet of that dimension is £38
http://www.theplasticshop.co.uk

Obviously you need more then 1 sheet. Its a shame you cant create the enclosure just infront of the speaker 2 sheets connected to the actual amp with enough gap to mic it.

Id really like to know what the rest of the money is spent on for these panels :x perspex is priced on clarity so cheaper grades might not be so see through but they do the same job. That was good grade perspex btw

Re: The amp baffle???

I have found Clear Sonics prices to be really reasonable. They do not make custom panels the size that Joe prefers. To buy the materials and fabricate the 1/4 inch plexi or acrylic panels it costs more than a stock panel here in the US. I have shipped to Joe in Europe before and it was held up in customs for a few weeks. Joe doesn't use any absorbtion materials behind the amp which I don't feel is needed with a closed back cabinet.
You can adjust the shield so there is only bleed towards the ceiling. Also bigger stages with curtains drawn across the back will absorb much of the sound reflecting towards the back.

Clear Sonic has a four panel 24" high model good for Fender size cabinets. They also have a 36" high two panel for single Marshall style cabinets. You might want to enquire about buying factory direct and having them ship overseas.

The first panel Joe used that was large enough to cover both cabinets was made out of acrylic and piano style hinges. It couldn't handle the abuse of the road. It has been retired. It certainly would of held up to a weekend gig schedule. I would use 1/4" material at least.

17 (edited by Fallon 2008-03-18 14:48:05)

Re: The amp baffle???

Geoff wrote:

This is a great post. I asked Joe about this the second time I saw him at Pacific Road. His answer was simple, it helps protect him and the front lines of the audience from serious damage. LOL. If you also take a close look at the way Dave sets up the mics in front of Joe's speakers, they are not directly in front of the centre of the speaker cones but at the edge. This was pointed out to me by Michael Parker, lead guitarist of Stone Soul River, who supported Joe on his last tour of the UK - gives a much crisper, clearer sound!! These sound screens are also used around drummers - Walter Trout's drummer Joey Parfumi uses a huge one - allowing the drummer's sound to be attenuated and mixed through the PA too I suspect!

http://www.flickr.com/photos/12559573@N … 470510312/

Regards

Yeap thats it man......so he would need some guitar signal thru his wedges....as all guitarists do.....its a great system he has going on..as his tone never suffers.....also thats the best way to Mic....cabs....or speakers edge of cone is best.....

Joes live tone is one of the best..

Cheers

Martin

Les Paul 95 Gibson standard, Marshall DSL 100, 4x12 straight faced B cab,Vox AC15TBXRI, Carl Martin Hot 'n' Drive boost, Deluxe Memoryman delay, Electric Mistress, Mango amps treble Booster(Dallas Rangemaster clone), Boss GE7

Re: The amp baffle???

dang it. I thought that was bullet proof glass! didn't you ever see the Blues Brothers?  RAWHIDE!

I heard a beer bottle smashed Joan Jett in the face once.

CRAZY

- Nic from Detroit... posting on JB's Forum since 6-2-2006
Ask me about my handwound Great Lakes Guitar Pickups
Since 2010, Bonamassa fans have taken advantage of my JB friend discount = my cost + shipping. cool