• Registered: 2006-12-28
  • Posts: 3,742

Topic: Hall of Fame vs Hall of Shame

I just wanted to throw down a quick post before heading to bed.....Let me first congratulte Rich "Goose" Gossage for making the baseball hall of fame....did you catch the video of him when he got the call on his being selected to the hall?....I actually had a lump in my throat...you want to talk about being humble and grateful....the man showed tremendous class and gratitude...he played for 9 teams in his career, but was always a "New York Yankee" since childhood....thanks "Goose" for picking the Yanks as the team you will represent in the hall.

Now the dark side of baseball has raised it's ugly head once again....Roger Clemens!...were you on vacation in March of 2005 when some of the biggest names in the game got torched in front of Congress...my god!...now congress is asking for more time to investigate you, your trainer, and your good friend Andy Pettitt...you talk about opening up a can of worms...I've never been a fan of yours...I dont care that you "helped" the yanks to a world championship, make that "gravytrained"....my advice to you is help your family...the're the ones who have to live with your decisions....and the're crying themselves to sleep...fix it now...you have a very short window of opportunity!

Yankee fan for life...goodnight "Goose" and sleep tight

Dave

  • From: Heading west on 80....
  • Registered: 2006-04-21
  • Posts: 864

Re: Hall of Fame vs Hall of Shame

Kinda hard for me to form such a harsh opinion when all the facts aren't in, and when/if they are we'll probably never know them.

Even in some more obvious cases, like Barry Bonds.....we still don't KNOW.

My biggest problem with the whole deal is that it is a subject that needs to be left alone. There was no rule against it (so its not cheating). At the very least, a ton of people were doing it. And there was no testing.  It WAS against the law, but no one is looking into this for the illegalities of it. Baseball itself (MLB and MLBPA) drug its feet on outlawing it, and on testing. They drug their feet on it, because performance enhancing drugs are what likely saved baseball. Baseball attendance and ratings were at an all time low, post strike. When they realized that 40 year old pitchers throwing 100 mph fastballs and guys hitting 70 500' home runs would fill up the ball park and keep ratings up, they allowed it to happen.......on purpose.

Now to save face somewhat, and protect their anti-trust exemption, MLB has turned hypocrit and is on a wild goose chase.

This whole thing stinks. They need to realize that they are NEVER going to be able to find out everyone that used PED's, and if they did they can't re-write the record books. They just need to institute the proper rules and measures now and clean up the game going forward. No useful purpose in damaging a few high profile individuals. The few that were actually a working piece of the puzzle that helped save baseball are the ones paying the highest price.

Barry Bonds isn't in any trouble whatsoever for allegedly using steroids; he is indicted for lying to congress under oath.

It stinks. Nothing to be gained by the witch hunt. Along the way innocent people are being trampled by the machine. All the facts will never come out, and nothing positive is going to be gained.

Lets just clean it up and move on.

PS - have you noticed the deafening silence regarding the use of performance enhancing drugs in other sports? Don't be naive enough to think that steroid use was not rampant in the NFL & NCAA football ranks prior to it being against the rules, and being tested for. And if hundreds/thousands of them used it before it was against the rules, how come no witch hunt there?  Might be because all that took place before the general public took on this "your guilty", now prove your innocence mentality.

“A friend is someone that will help you move............a TRUE friend will help you move the bodies." -- anon
  • Registered: 2006-12-28
  • Posts: 3,742

Re: Hall of Fame vs Hall of Shame

Geez...guess all the forum members are burned out on the "juice"...pun intended....

Seriously...yeah... i wish the whole thing would disappear too!!....I just wunder how Mitchell and his federal henchman got McNamee to cough...Mitchell had no subpeana power!...I listened to the entire 17 minute conversation that Clemens recorded without his trainers knowledge.....I would have straight up asked McNamee "why did you lie about injecting me with steroids...what did they say to you to have do that"...this whole situation is going to end very ugly....the latest thing I'm hearing is a report on a 2001 possible rape case where McNamee was the suspect and refused to give a saliva sample for DNA test....guess you got to squash the mans credibility if your Clemens...sorry...damage done!...

Anways I agree with you Phil...MLB is to blame for alot if not all this PED garbage...them turnstiles were burning out bearings trying to keep up with the crowds that came to the ballparks on the Big Mac and Sammy home run chase....Bud Selig...PLEASE!!!...talk about a conflict of interest....lets clean up the game and move on....

Dave

P.S....hey Roger Clemens!...how about saying to McNamee..."hey Mac... tell Brian Jr. I'm coming to see him in the hospital...after all this is not about me and you"....hmm...guess that never crossed your mind...too busy making sure you didnt run out of tape!

4 Reply by dknight16 (edited by dknight16 2008-01-10 18:42:29)

  • Registered: 2006-05-08
  • Posts: 1,996

Re: Hall of Fame vs Hall of Shame

Good for Goose, he deserves to be there.  Gossage, Sutter, and other role players (closers, designated hitters, etc) deserve to be finally recognized.

But the HOF voting system needs to be seriously overhauled.  How can you justify taking 10-15 years to vote a guy in?  If each voting member has 10 votes per year, why is the average submitted only like 4?  Why hasn't the veteran's committee ever voted in a player? (they have voted in only administrative type guys - managers, commissioners, etc).  Why does hitting a magic number such as 3000 hits or 500 home runs, count more than a demonstrated period of dominance?

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  • From: Heading west on 80....
  • Registered: 2006-04-21
  • Posts: 864

Re: Hall of Fame vs Hall of Shame

Shredit wrote:

.I listened to the entire 17 minute conversation that Clemens recorded without his trainers knowledge.....I would have straight up asked McNamee "why did you lie about injecting me with steroids...what did they say to you to have do that"..

Roger was very controlled in what he could and couldn't say -- if he asked the very question posed above it could have been considered witness tampering. Same thing with why Roger didn't answer McNamee when he said "Tell me what you want me to do, Roger".. Roger couldn't say "I want YOU to come down here and set the record straight"........witness tampering.

It doesn't look very good for Roger. All I'm saying is that there is no reason to make an un informed judgment about the deal. We will never know all the facts. There is no gain in being so quick to condemn. Just a sign of the times.

“A friend is someone that will help you move............a TRUE friend will help you move the bodies." -- anon
  • From: Detroit
  • Registered: 2006-06-02
  • Posts: 5,807

Re: Hall of Fame vs Hall of Shame

I love that cell phone commercial when Roger Clemens is golfing and he asks his wife if he can go back to playing baseball....then the phone cuts out. "She's so happy - she's speachless - GUYS -I'M BACK!..."

- Nic from Detroit... posting on JB's Forum since 6-2-2006
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  • suhl
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  • From: Springfield, IL
  • Registered: 2007-01-27
  • Posts: 936

Re: Hall of Fame vs Hall of Shame

i really don't care whether it was legal in baseball or not, or whether it is actually safe if not abused or not.  the fact of the matter when it was legal it gave those with no integrity or sportsmanship a leg up on those few that actually kept it.  you cannot compare their records to guys who didnt have it.  and yes, actually with barry bonds we do "know."  he admitted to doing it "unknowingly"(don't believe me, type in barr, bonds, cream, clear on google).  let's just forget the fact that the guy is a total health nut who is fanatical about what goes into his body.  people seem to have this weird illusioin that steroids are a substitute for hard work.  the two go hand in hand im not saying any of them don't work really hard.  however, someone who works really hard without steroids probably isn't going to get the results barry bonds did in such a short time frame.  and clemens seems a lot more convincing in his denial than bonds, so im not ready to make a decision on him, although i havent read the report.  here are three things i find fishy.  1.  as a pitcher, a starter in particular, your arm is going to have some signs of wear after 20 years in the game.  clemens appeared to get stronger.  are you telling me he is the only pitcher who has worked out hard late into their career in the history of the game?  2.  andy petitte coming forward and saying the guy was telling the truth about him does clemens no favors.  3.  common sense, along with the facts as they come out, tells you that their are certain trainers that are into the whol steroid human growth hormone game and they have that rep throughout the league, it is very hard to believe that someone who has known them for so long was totally blind to that part of them when other players around the league are not.

i don't really give anything any creedence when one person knows they are being recorded and the other doesnt.  manipulation is way too easy, and mcnamee never admitted to lying in the phone call.

however, like i said, i haven't made up my mind on clemens because he really does seem sincere in his denial and adamant about actually digging up all the facts and testifying in court.  if he does all that and turns out to be guilty still it will be a stiffer penalty for lying under oath amnd i don't know why he'd do that.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=fCdNsm7gvu8

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  • From: Edgewater, FL
  • Registered: 2007-12-08
  • Posts: 5,046

Re: Hall of Fame vs Hall of Shame

Phil:

I have made my mind up about a few things. One is that this entire debacle is POLITICAL.  Let's seduce the players with big money and the public into spending their money while we rape the planet.

Let's distract all of the human race because the ends justifies the means and then let's act shocked when we get caught.

Honor & integrity are a personal issue and between you and whatever power you believe in. 

I would definitely go for any advantage.  I would not cheat.  Do I always know where that line is crossed?  Always, no...usually, yes.  It's always gut check time for this old player.

There will always be charlatans and a willing crowd to follow them.  Always!

All that being said I will still watch the games on my TV and suffer through commercials because I love sports.  I will jump up and down in great excitement and when the game is over I'll turn that idiot box off and move on.

IMHO
Jeff

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