Topic: Black Beauty auction controversy, JB chimes in

Article here!
Quotes from rick neilsen and Joe bonamassa!
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/sty … is-guitar/

- Nic from Detroit... posting on JB's Forum since 6-2-2006
Ask me about my handwound Great Lakes Guitar Pickups
Since 2010, Bonamassa fans have taken advantage of my JB friend discount = my cost + shipping. cool

2 (edited by RoadcaseBoy 2015-02-17 22:49:48)

Re: Black Beauty auction controversy, JB chimes in

Another interesting read as the auction draws near.  Thanks for the link.

Any potential bidder who happens to read this has to take notice of Joe's assessment.  (I would assume most in the high end market do their homework.)

PS: ... I like how out of the 100+ LPs Nielsen has ... he brings his Studio to the Iridium jam with Les. big_smile (Works for me!!)

"I was in Space for less than 2 weeks … and suddenly Jeaniene’s back … half the Band is off the gd wagon … we have comedians opening for us … and the nice kid that ran our website is now a kleptof’nmaniac.  Boy ... did you guys miss me!!"  Phil Valentine - Road Manager - Staton House Band

JBLP#251 (unaged) ... thank you Ron.

Re: Black Beauty auction controversy, JB chimes in

Why pick up 6 bursts when you can get that.........thing

Les Paul Geek, nut, obsessed etc. etc.

Re: Black Beauty auction controversy, JB chimes in

Interesting, presale estimate of two million, and Joe says he wouldn't pay ten grand for it. It will be interesting to see what the final price actually is. I predict it wont even come close to the estimate, but who knows.

Play some cards & drink black coffee,
How I’d love to see you smile....
JBLP Std Goldtop
2015 R9 LP

5 (edited by Rocket 2015-02-18 10:33:39)

Re: Black Beauty auction controversy, JB chimes in

A chump is hoodwinked and hornswoggled every day.  A sucker sucks up to appear sophisticated.  A fool is foolishly frauded for fun and profit fairly often...

If any part of the "story" is possibly proven provenance, it should come out in verified full detail, and only go to the Smithsonian Museum, not the auction blocks...


Rock ON & Keep The Fiduciary Faith,
Rocket

"He still doesn't charge for mistakes! wink"
http://jbonamassa.com/tour-dates/
"Everybody wants ta get inta the act!"
“Now, this isn’t your ordinary party crowd, here.  I mean, there are professionals in here.”

Re: Black Beauty auction controversy, JB chimes in

Thanks for the link, good read.

Re: Black Beauty auction controversy, JB chimes in

This article has a YouTube video about the guitar...

http://www.engadget.com/2015/02/11/1954 … e-auction/

Play some cards & drink black coffee,
How I’d love to see you smile....
JBLP Std Goldtop
2015 R9 LP

8 (edited by RoadcaseBoy 2015-02-19 23:19:05)

Re: Black Beauty auction controversy, JB chimes in

Colts owner Jim Irsay swoops in at $335,500 ...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/sty … ul-guitar/

"I was in Space for less than 2 weeks … and suddenly Jeaniene’s back … half the Band is off the gd wagon … we have comedians opening for us … and the nice kid that ran our website is now a kleptof’nmaniac.  Boy ... did you guys miss me!!"  Phil Valentine - Road Manager - Staton House Band

JBLP#251 (unaged) ... thank you Ron.

Re: Black Beauty auction controversy, JB chimes in

As I expected, the final price was well below the presale estimate. Commenter in the Washington Post article complained that it should have gone higher, stating "It's sad that the Washington Post sought to discredit its historical value quoting people who would know nothing of its importance. Why are Nielsen, Bonamassa, Gruhn, Braunstein. and even Russ quotes important?"

I found this comment laughable, the people mentioned know what they are talking about, in my opinion.

Play some cards & drink black coffee,
How I’d love to see you smile....
JBLP Std Goldtop
2015 R9 LP

10 (edited by macg1 2015-02-20 10:05:14)

Re: Black Beauty auction controversy, JB chimes in

Rusty wrote:

As I expected, the final price was well below the presale estimate. Commenter in the Washington Post article complained that it should have gone higher, stating "It's sad that the Washington Post sought to discredit its historical value quoting people who would know nothing of its importance. Why are Nielsen, Bonamassa, Gruhn, Braunstein. and even Russ quotes important?"

I found this comment laughable, the people mentioned know what they are talking about, in my opinion.

I haven't read that comment on the Post, but if it is verbatim as you quoted, that is a VERY ignorant statement. sheesh, having dealt with Gruhn in the past, he CAN (and WAS in my case) be wrong about the origins and value of something he appraised for me. Something that ended up selling for 10K when he said it was nothing. Nobody is perfect. HOWEVER, this Black Beauty case is sort of a no-brainer even for the likes of me. I think the guitar fetched what it is worth. I actually had guessed a few hundred thousand.

Amp: Firebird Musical Amplifiers
Guitars:62 LP SG , 02 FB VII, JB FB I, 76 Electra Omega, 64 Firebird V, 73 LPC, 61 Custom Tele, 59 and 60 Melody Maker
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Re: Black Beauty auction controversy, JB chimes in

Kinda confused by the folks in the article saying it isn't worth the selling price.  Someone paid that amount so has to be worth that much yea?

12 (edited by Rusty 2015-02-21 08:24:01)

Re: Black Beauty auction controversy, JB chimes in

Hogsniper wrote:

Kinda confused by the folks in the article saying it isn't worth the selling price.  Someone paid that amount so has to be worth that much yea?

Correct. Value is determined by the price achieved at a well advertised auction. Of course, individual opinions of the worth will vary.

Play some cards & drink black coffee,
How I’d love to see you smile....
JBLP Std Goldtop
2015 R9 LP

Re: Black Beauty auction controversy, JB chimes in

The guitar is a not anything but a cobbled up Les Paul Custom that Les had laying around. I wasn't trying to discredit Tom or Max or even Guernseys but the amount of revisionist history those fellas were writing in the lead up to the auction deserved a bit of clarity and perspective. Besides what the hell do I know about the high end guitar market and in particular vintage Lester Proflus models?

Remember these two names. Ted McCarty and Seth Lover.  That's all you need to know about the holy grail electric guitar.  Les was a brilliant inventor of recording techniques and a master jazz musician. A guitar maker not so much.  Because the truth is that he rarely played stock versions of his own guitar and never a sunburst model.  That was all Ted and Seth. 
And the Sunburst model with Humbucking pickups is regarded as the Holy Grail.  Not the custom or even the gold top standard models. 
History is written by the ones who write it
Joe B

14 (edited by Rich85 2015-02-22 00:44:34)

Re: Black Beauty auction controversy, JB chimes in

So if there was shipping records to prove it, which there arnt, but could you regard the first ever 58 burst as the 'holy grail' if you had to choose one

Les Paul Geek, nut, obsessed etc. etc.

Re: Black Beauty auction controversy, JB chimes in

Rich85 wrote:

So if there was shipping records to prove it, which there arnt, but could you regard the first ever 58 burst as the 'holy grail' if you had to choose one

I would think that originality, condition, playability, tone and the grade of the top would trump "first ever", unless it had all those qualities too.

Play some cards & drink black coffee,
How I’d love to see you smile....
JBLP Std Goldtop
2015 R9 LP

Re: Black Beauty auction controversy, JB chimes in

Rusty wrote:
Rich85 wrote:

So if there was shipping records to prove it, which there arnt, but could you regard the first ever 58 burst as the 'holy grail' if you had to choose one

I would think that originality, condition, playability, tone and the grade of the top would trump "first ever", unless it had all those qualities too.

True, but if you had to narrow it down to one burst, which is the one guitar in theory that could be called that.

Most responses would be the artist played, Page #1 and Pearly I guess.

Remember just in theory, only because the term is being thrown around about that custom.

Les Paul Geek, nut, obsessed etc. etc.

17 (edited by NPB_EST.1979 2015-02-23 16:12:17)

Re: Black Beauty auction controversy, JB chimes in

Joe Bonamassa wrote:

Remember these two names. Ted McCarty and Seth Lover.  That's all you need to know about the holy grail electric guitar.
Joe B

As the story goes, Ted and Les argue over who "really" designed the Les Paul model.
From what I've heard, any guitar that Les actually played didn't have binding on the fretboard edges. He didn't like the plastic feeling. So it either didn't come with fret-binding or he ripped them off and replaced with strips of wood. crazy.

It's agreed that Seth Lover was the GUY who found a way to 'buck the hum, Les Paul claims the sound was never quite right cause of the muddy low end.

AND NOW FOR SOMETHING CRAZY
OW Appleton invented the single cut solidbody way back in 1943 and Gibson turned him away, only to send him a flier years later for the Les Paul saying "we should have listened to you back then"
http://www.owappleton.com/

- Nic from Detroit... posting on JB's Forum since 6-2-2006
Ask me about my handwound Great Lakes Guitar Pickups
Since 2010, Bonamassa fans have taken advantage of my JB friend discount = my cost + shipping. cool

Re: Black Beauty auction controversy, JB chimes in

And from what I have read the original PAF humbuckers were meant to capture the P90 sound.

Hence so many guitarists saying "has anybody noticed you can get PAF tones from P90's.........."

Interesting article though on the appleton!

Les Paul Geek, nut, obsessed etc. etc.