1 (edited by LJHog 2014-04-06 20:44:12)

Topic: San Antonio show

Great group of musicians ruined by the worst produced concert I've ever seen of the 100's I've attended.  Volume was beyond too loud.  Most of time the band was playing over the vocals.  That is a NO NO!  It was as if there wasn't a sound check for the show.  It was stadium volume in a theater setting.   The distortion and reverberation at times made even the guitar runs inaudible.  The light show was more of a distraction than an addition to the experience.  Lights shinning in the eyes of the audience is not cool.  All that was required was some back lighting and a spotlight and let the talent shine.
As my wife said, "It's like the lights and sound were done by high school kids".   Sometimes more is less.

Re: San Antonio show

LJHog wrote:

Great group of musicians ruined by the worst produced concert I've ever seen of the 100's I've attended.  Volume was beyond too loud.  Most of time the band was playing over the vocals.  That is a NO NO!  It was as if there wasn't a sound check for the show.  It was stadium volume in a theater setting.   The distortion and reverberation at times made even the guitar runs inaudible.  The light show was more of a distraction than an addition to the experience.  Lights shinning in the eyes of the audience is not cool.  All that was required was some back lighting and a spotlight and let the talent shine.
As my wife said, "It's like the lights and sound were done by high school kids".   Sometimes more is less.

I agree sir, I posted a similar post, the vocals were totally drowned out and also the inaudible solos.
I like how you described the stadium volume in a theater setting. It was way over bearing......

Re: San Antonio show

scottydunn54 wrote:
LJHog wrote:

Great group of musicians ruined by the worst produced concert I've ever seen of the 100's I've attended.  Volume was beyond too loud.  Most of time the band was playing over the vocals.  That is a NO NO!  It was as if there wasn't a sound check for the show.  It was stadium volume in a theater setting.   The distortion and reverberation at times made even the guitar runs inaudible.  The light show was more of a distraction than an addition to the experience.  Lights shinning in the eyes of the audience is not cool.  All that was required was some back lighting and a spotlight and let the talent shine.
As my wife said, "It's like the lights and sound were done by high school kids".   Sometimes more is less.

I agree sir, I posted a similar post, the vocals were totally drowned out and also the inaudible solos.
I like how you described the stadium volume in a theater setting. It was way over bearing......


I forgot to mention the blaring glaring lights also was a distraction. There are a lot of older people coming to his shows.
Please dim those bright lights, thank you

4 (edited by Rocket 2014-04-07 04:07:52)

Re: San Antonio show

Oh my!, and Eww, don't hurt the old people! lol roll Nobody but me wants to leave a show deaf, dumb, and blind???!! tongue

I'm shocked, Joe, I tell you, shocked, that you don't care well for your elders and apparently hire children to run sound and lights... yikes mad lol big_smile


Shocked MON, and Keep the Faith,
Rocket

"He still doesn't charge for mistakes! wink"
http://jbonamassa.com/tour-dates/
"Everybody wants ta get inta the act!"
“Now, this isn’t your ordinary party crowd, here.  I mean, there are professionals in here.”

5 (edited by nmagcorn 2014-04-07 11:48:17)

Re: San Antonio show

Seems like some people really enjoyed the show at the Majestic. One of Phil's clients runs the Majestic as well as the Saenger in New Orleans and he sent Phil an email with a press release the Majestic put out regarding Joe's show that was written up in the San Antonio Express - News:

http://blog.mysanantonio.com/weekender/ … -majestic/

Joe Bonamassa filled the Majestic Theatre on Saturday for a display of acoustic and electric guitar wizardry.

SAN ANTONIO — Guitar hero Joe Bonamassa attracted more than 2,100 fans Saturday at the Majestic Theatre, a virtually sold-out house. That’s one more  indicator of the venue’s spot-on booking and another example of how it will thread the needle once it’s no longer the home of the San Antonio Symphony in five months.That’s when the Tobin Center for the Performing Arts opens.Bonamassa, who served as his own opening act by dividing the show into an unplugged opening set and an electrified second half, is a telling case study.  He is a cult star in a genre — the blues — that is not usually high profile.

But he stays current with a handful of ongoing, often ambitious, DVD and CD projects. With a recent No. 1 blues albums, he’s a rare guitar hero in the age of electronic dance music.

By contrast, Robert Cray and Los Lobos arrive at Aztec Theatre on April 13. If that show pulls half of Bonamassa’s tally, that will be considered a win at a new venue trying to establish an identity.

The difference is that the Majestic can deals with nostalgia or smaller shows, such as Tuesday’s Booker T. Jones concert, by booking them  into the 890-seat Charline McCombs Empire Theatre.

On Saturday, Bonamassa showed off his prowess on acoustic guitar and on (mostly) his Gibson Les Paul electric guitars. Vocally, he revealed an affinity for Southern rockers like the Allman Brothers and the Marshall Tucker Band.

His higher vocal range, like his song structures, is well-matched for that branch of American blues rock.

For example, “Black Lung Heartache” is a shot-glass blues that’s propelled as much by mandola played by Gerry O’Connor (who also plays violin and banjo) and Mats Wester’s unusual, droning  nyckelharpa as Bonamassa’s acoustic guitar.

Lenny Castro’s extraordinary percussion fills on a variety of drums and shakers anchored the opening set, as did pianist Derek Sherinian on upright piano on Tom Waits’ “Jockey Full of Bourbon,” a New Orleans-style vamp. Once the electricity was added, bassist Carmine Riojas and drummer Tal Bergman were brought into the mix, and O’Connor and Wester left the stage until the encore numbers.

Bonamassa is a masterful player, unafraid of bombast, but in total control of a style that can shift from Carlos Santana-like sustain to Jimmy Page riffing and B.B. King and Eric Clapton slow-hand blues. There are jazzier moments, too.

“Oh Beautiful” was the night’s most haunting song, its verse delivered in hushed tones. Howlin’ Wolf’s “Who’s Been Talking,” on the other hand, got the Led Zeppelin treatment. “Sloe Gin” reveled in Southern rock obsession, down to its “Free Bird” ending; “The Ballad of John Henry,” so steeped in distorted Hammond B-3 organ, recalled Deep Purple.

It was difficult to hush Saturday’s rowdy crowd, but Bonamassa nearly did it with his quiet “Django/Mountain Time.” which demonstrated his volume control mastery and coaxed violin-like runs from his electric guitar.

But there was a subtle difference between Bonamassa’s noisy fans and many other audiences: Few on Saturday seemed to be casual fans of the artist. They hung on his every word, lyric and guitar riff and called out for favorites.

The Majestic connected those fans to the cult artist. That’s a win all the way around

Re: San Antonio show

Rocket wrote:

Oh my!, and Eww, don't hurt the old people! lol roll Nobody but me wants to leave a show deaf, dumb, and blind???!! tongue

I'm shocked, Joe, I tell you, shocked, that you don't care well for your elders and apparently hire children to run sound and lights... yikes mad lol big_smile


Shocked MON, and Keep the Faith,
Rocket

What's age got to do with it?  I saw the Stones in Moody Colosseum which is comparable to the Majestic.
I have been to 6 Metallica concerts.  They are loud.  But, in each case I could hear the vocals.  Heck, I've even seen Jimi Hendrix and he was loud.
Fact still remains this concert was poorly produced, period.

Re: San Antonio show

LJHog wrote:

What's age got to do with it?

Nothing. That's just Rocket's sense of humor...

LJHog wrote:

Fact still remains this concert was poorly produced, period.

You're entitled to your opinion, of course. You're not entitled to claim that anyone who disagrees with you (which apparently includes the vast majority of folks attending that show) is mistaken. And you have to admit it is a bit odd to go to the trouble of signing up for this forum and having your first posts be bashing on the production at a concert...

Terrance Shuman
Kansas City, MO

Re: San Antonio show

Coach305 wrote:
LJHog wrote:

What's age got to do with it?

Nothing. That's just Rocket's sense of humor...

LJHog wrote:

Fact still remains this concert was poorly produced, period.

You're entitled to your opinion, of course. You're not entitled to claim that anyone who disagrees with you (which apparently includes the vast majority of folks attending that show) is mistaken. And you have to admit it is a bit odd to go to the trouble of signing up for this forum and having your first posts be bashing on the production at a concert...

How else would suggest I communicate with the production crew?

9 (edited by Rocket 2014-04-07 20:55:47)

Re: San Antonio show

LJHog wrote:
Coach305 wrote:
LJHog wrote:

What's age got to do with it?

Nothing. That's just Rocket's sense of humor...

LJHog wrote:

Fact still remains this concert was poorly produced, period.

You're entitled to your opinion, of course. You're not entitled to claim that anyone who disagrees with you (which apparently includes the vast majority of folks attending that show) is mistaken. And you have to admit it is a bit odd to go to the trouble of signing up for this forum and having your first posts be bashing on the production at a concert...

How else would suggest I communicate with the production crew?

UG! Caveman produce good tool, no need rock to tap out message.  Called communication by word of mouth.  tongue

Crew has to break it all down.  While they are breaking it all down you could be breaking down all the horrors of the evening's displeasures.  Want impact?!  (ya might 'ave to brace for it)  Not saying it would go over well, but you wouldn't have a false sense of trying that telling the tale of the rape here encompasses.  Rest assured, there is no way a guaranty that your message gets delivered to the right address (person) that comes from putting it out on the forum.  Not suggesting it isn't possible to BE transmitted to the pertinent person(s) here, either.  But my way is, if you address it immediately AFTERWARDS, if you are THERE, a virtual guaranty of delivery.  Then come on here and announce you did it.  That is effective as you can get.  That and face-to-face with Joe Bonamassa himself.  Ask yourselves, would you say the same thing(s) to Joe in that case, and in the same way, in that, and ALL the other methods of addressing your concerns?  I can see suggesting sometimes more is less.  Would you like your wife to say that directly to the man, in person?  Just a thought.  I certainly detected dissatisfaction with your experience, you made it obvious.  Whether somebody that actually matters even actually reads all of this or ANY review issssss debatable.

But how can an opinion be fact?...yours, mine, ours, theirs?! I need that one...


Rock ON & Keep the Lamps and the Flashy Fringes of Faith Trimmed,
Rocket

"He still doesn't charge for mistakes! wink"
http://jbonamassa.com/tour-dates/
"Everybody wants ta get inta the act!"
“Now, this isn’t your ordinary party crowd, here.  I mean, there are professionals in here.”

Re: San Antonio show

I don't think it's fair to bash someone for making a first post that is a bit negative. It doesn't mean they are not big fans. But sometimes a big disappointment is what it takes to motivate someone to come on here. Whether the sound was bad or not is a moot point, but LJHog was obviously upset and disappointed and shouldn't be treated as a pariah for saying so.
I really believe this forum should be about more than just "Oooh Joe, you're so awesome!!!". We all think he's awesome, otherwise we wouldn't be on here, but we should be able to say other things too! (As long as it's done in a constructive and non-insulting way of course).
That's my opinion - feel free to disagree with me wink


Coach305 wrote:
LJHog wrote:

What's age got to do with it?

Nothing. That's just Rocket's sense of humor...

LJHog wrote:

Fact still remains this concert was poorly produced, period.

You're entitled to your opinion, of course. You're not entitled to claim that anyone who disagrees with you (which apparently includes the vast majority of folks attending that show) is mistaken. And you have to admit it is a bit odd to go to the trouble of signing up for this forum and having your first posts be bashing on the production at a concert...

Re: San Antonio show

I wasn't there. I wanted to be but got busy and had to cancel plans to travel. I love San Antonio and wanted to see that historic theater. I was at the last show in the Rodeo Arena/Barn. The sound in there was surprisingly good because I thought that room couldn't be tamed.

What is too loud is subjective there absolutely be a too loud for a certain room and old theaters were designed to project sound from the stage and use the ceilings to reflect sound like a megaphone. So a rock band can overwhelm a room with stage volume alone. That is hard for any sound engineer to overcome.

I have seen many shows and thought some too loud and some too quiet. Some the guitar not up and some the guitar too loud but that is what I want. The other thing on my want list is the vocals to be on top of it all no matter the volume of the band. I'm not an engineer but I do think it would be possible to gas the vocals when the band dynamics rise to a level washing out the vocals or holding the band back on the board and leave the vocals alone. That would only work if the stage volume isn't overwhelming the room and in a big room that may be only half or the entire room in a small room. The Majestic i believe is about 2k capacity and that isn't that big.

One of the best concerts I ever saw and I thought so at the time was SRV in 1990 at our Civic Center. I was on the 9th row left. Right in front of Stevie's Dumble stack. He had a plexi shield first time I ever saw one. It was 6 ft high and between him and his mic to keep the guitar from bleeding onto it. The angle of that shield beamed Stevie guitar into my left ear. Still rings to this day. I had to get out of my seat and walk to the back of the orchestra section to even hear the rest of the band. I however went back to my seat and soaked in Stevie's guitar and vocals and wondered why I took so long to see this cat live.

I want every show to sound perfect none do. AC/DC was the loudest overall concert I have seen but Angus's guitar was too low for me. Maybe is was panned right and I was on the left who knows. It was still awesome. I'm seeing Joe tonight. I will be able to give my honest opinion of the mix in the room he is playing. I can live with a lot of imperfection as long as the guitar sounds big and fat and the vocals are on top of the band at any volume.

Joe reads this and although I don't like the tone of the complaint and the proclamation that his opinion is the sole arbiter of the concert sound and light experience but this forum is here for a reason. If it gets argumentative or personal then it will go. The guy came on here feeling compelled to do so to voice his gripe first post or not. Most on here temper our opinions expressed because we know Joe and don't want to insult his band or crew. They are a family out there and all working hard to try to bring the best quality show for everyone.

I know from experience you can't please everyone. Lighting is part of the show too. It isn't for everybody. I am a minimalist and would be happy with a spot and scene changes. but there are some pretty cool lights out there now and Joe let's his designer do his thing. There are some moments that are awesome and moments that might be over the top. Again if somebody gets that ticky tacky about the lighting I wonder if the original poster doesn't have some other ax to grind on everything else. You must consider the source and a first time poster has no credibility to those of us that have developed our own forum personalities like Rocket and others.

Re: San Antonio show

GMac wrote:

I don't think it's fair to bash someone for making a first post that is a bit negative. It doesn't mean they are not big fans. But sometimes a big disappointment is what it takes to motivate someone to come on here. Whether the sound was bad or not is a moot point, but LJHog was obviously upset and disappointed and shouldn't be treated as a pariah for saying so.
I really believe this forum should be about more than just "Oooh Joe, you're so awesome!!!". We all think he's awesome, otherwise we wouldn't be on here, but we should be able to say other things too! (As long as it's done in a constructive and non-insulting way of course).
That's my opinion - feel free to disagree with me wink

1+, totally agree.

Re: San Antonio show

Agree with what Jim said. I've been to several of Joe's shows that were not as good as I wished and several that exceeded my expectations. I just chalk it up to venue or seat and eagerly await the next, taking the lesson of selecting a better seat the next time that venue crops up. Life isn't perfect and neither is concert sound. LJHog had a point and expressed it and I'm certainly not questioning his judgement. I hope his next gig is better. Joe and his crew do the best they can with what there is to work with. As they move up to bigger venues due to demand, I'm sure there is a learning curve to get over. He's preferred the classic old Audion type halls for the great acoustics and now has moved on since they sell out so fast.
Rick

Free download from Vienna! http://mbsy.co/bNLR
Lots of unique videos of Joe http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwd5vL8fXTw
Buy Joe's merchandise here. http://www.jbonamassa.com/affiliates/id … hp?id=1381

Re: San Antonio show

GMac wrote:

I don't think it's fair to bash someone for making a first post that is a bit negative.

"...the worst produced concert I've ever seen..." strikes me as somewhat more than "a bit negative"...

GMac wrote:

LJHog was obviously upset and disappointed and shouldn't be treated as a pariah for saying so.

Not sure to whom this comment is addressed. Haven't seen anyone suggesting any such thing...

GMac wrote:

we should be able to say other things too! (As long as it's done in a constructive and non-insulting way of course).

Everyone is free to say whatever she/he wishes. But "the worst produced concert I've ever seen" and "It's like the lights and sound were done by high school kids" don't strike me as either constructive OR non-insulting. Quite the opposite. And I still find it odd content for a first post here...

Terrance Shuman
Kansas City, MO

Re: San Antonio show

Coach305 wrote:
GMac wrote:

I don't think it's fair to bash someone for making a first post that is a bit negative.

"...the worst produced concert I've ever seen..." strikes me as somewhat more than "a bit negative"...

GMac wrote:

LJHog was obviously upset and disappointed and shouldn't be treated as a pariah for saying so.

Not sure to whom this comment is addressed. Haven't seen anyone suggesting any such thing...

GMac wrote:

we should be able to say other things too! (As long as it's done in a constructive and non-insulting way of course).

Everyone is free to say whatever she/he wishes. But "the worst produced concert I've ever seen" and "It's like the lights and sound were done by high school kids" don't strike me as either constructive OR non-insulting. Quite the opposite. And I still find it odd content for a first post here...

"And I still find it odd content for a first post here..."  Yes, Teach, 'tis true.  Seems to be a rash of very similar creations in this category of late.  Something creeeeeaaks about...


Rock ON & Keep the Faith,
Rocket

"He still doesn't charge for mistakes! wink"
http://jbonamassa.com/tour-dates/
"Everybody wants ta get inta the act!"
“Now, this isn’t your ordinary party crowd, here.  I mean, there are professionals in here.”

16 (edited by GMac 2014-04-09 02:23:02)

Re: San Antonio show

Sure, Coach - "a bit negative" is probably classic British understatement! I understand your point and that you want to stick up for Joe here, which of course is fair enough. I'm perhaps reacting a little because I sometimes feel older forum members have an attitude towards new members of "your opinion is not credible until you are at least a titanium member". I think everyone is entitled to their opinion whether they are new, silver, platinum, or megabonametal. LJHog could have tempered his words a little more, but hey, it's easy to blurt out stuff on forums that you later regret! I've just done it myself by using the word 'pariah', which was way too strong! :fp


Coach305 wrote:
GMac wrote:

I don't think it's fair to bash someone for making a first post that is a bit negative.

"...the worst produced concert I've ever seen..." strikes me as somewhat more than "a bit negative"...

GMac wrote:

LJHog was obviously upset and disappointed and shouldn't be treated as a pariah for saying so.

Not sure to whom this comment is addressed. Haven't seen anyone suggesting any such thing...

GMac wrote:

we should be able to say other things too! (As long as it's done in a constructive and non-insulting way of course).

Everyone is free to say whatever she/he wishes. But "the worst produced concert I've ever seen" and "It's like the lights and sound were done by high school kids" don't strike me as either constructive OR non-insulting. Quite the opposite. And I still find it odd content for a first post here...

17 (edited by Bluemac 2014-04-09 07:33:35)

Re: San Antonio show

I think there are two different issues at play here:

1.    Sound problems
2.    How we react to people who complain in their first post

I believe both of these issues are about human nature.

If somebody is really looking forward to a concert, has spent a lot of money on tickets and possibly accommodation, maybe travelled a long way, and they feel the concert has been spoiled by poor sound, then it’s human nature to be disappointed. And sometimes when we are really disappointed we want to vent and express that disappointment somehow and the forum is the obvious place to go for all things related to Joe. Unfortunately, if we are in an emotional state when we express our disappointment it is easy to fall into the trap of not being very diplomatic in how we say things. I’m sure we’ve all unloaded on somebody in a not very polite way at some time in our lives. I’m not defending that, but it IS human nature.

It’s also human nature for Joe’s fans on the forum to want to defend their hero against criticism. The danger here is that we focus too much on the messenger and not the message. If the first instinct is to attack the messenger, it just makes them defensive and then the whole thing can become confrontational, which is a waste of everybody’s time and energy.

It is true that there have been a number of posts this season from first-timers complaining about poor sound. There have also been complaints by long-standing members too, so we have to assume that for some reason there have indeed been some sound issues that have genuinely spoiled people’s enjoyment and not that there is some kind of Joe-bashing conspiracy going on. Now we all know that Joe is totally focused on delivering the best possible experience for his fans, so we can also assume that the sound guys are doing everything possible to get the sound right.

I think the biggest frustration for fans who are confronted with sound problems at the beginning of the concert is if things don’t improve during the night. I went to a gig at the weekend and it was clear to everybody during the first song that the sound balance was wrong. The band members did some frantic signalling to the sound desk and they sorted out the problems immediately and the sound was fine after that. I think this is what people hope will happen. If changes are not made when there are obvious sound problems, then it’s human nature to question what the sound guys are up to and wonder why they haven’t done anything to improve things and lay the blame at their door. It may well be totally unfair as it’s possible that there isn’t anything that they can actually do, but once again, it IS human nature...

Even fools say something worthwhile now and again

18 (edited by Rocket 2014-04-09 03:13:18)

Re: San Antonio show

Wasting time here...

I've never been keen on kicking sand.  Sand does not make a good beverage.

Alfred E. Neumann doesn't worry about issues...or who's precedent... tongue


Rock Yawn On & Keep the Faith,
Rocket

"He still doesn't charge for mistakes! wink"
http://jbonamassa.com/tour-dates/
"Everybody wants ta get inta the act!"
“Now, this isn’t your ordinary party crowd, here.  I mean, there are professionals in here.”