[ Closed ] The Elephant in the room (Page 2 of 5)

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"He still doesn't charge for mistakes! "
http://jbonamassa.com/tour-dates/
"Everybody wants ta get inta the act!"
“Now, this isn’t your ordinary party crowd, here.  I mean, there are professionals in here.”

Any questions??!!

"He still doesn't charge for mistakes! "
http://jbonamassa.com/tour-dates/
"Everybody wants ta get inta the act!"
“Now, this isn’t your ordinary party crowd, here.  I mean, there are professionals in here.”

A couple of points I'd like to add:

Firearms were an absolute necessity 200 years ago. The founding fathers wanted the citizenry to own firearms as they were unsure whether the British might invade our young nation to restore their colonial rule (e.g. the War of 1812). Afterward with westward expansion the white settlers needed to protect themselves from Native Americans who weren't exactly happy about sharing their lands with invaders (let's not open up that can of worms...). Also during the "Wild West" days, lawmen were few in number and days away from homesteaders who needed to protect themselves and their families from bandits. During the World Wars and afterward our enemies were absolutely terrified at the aspect of facing American sharpshooters in battle. Men from Texas, Pennsylvania and elsewhere who could knock off a squirrel-sized target from hundreds of meters away. And who were these men? Decendants from European immigrants with their long history of hunting culture.

Now after the horrific bloodshed of the World Wars, europeans understandably were eager to rid themselves of firearms. Posters such as Frazer may have never even held a firearm let alone shoot one. So they speak from a somewhat jaded podium.

Murder statistics here in the states are inflated by inner city and gang related violence. In rural areas such as where I live, gun ownership is high and incidence of crime is much lower than in inner cities. It's a cultural & political thing. Big city politicians enact laws to disarm the populace and as a result, criminals and police are the only ones with guns. Criminals prey on an unarmed populace (and on each other). American prisons are filled with gun-crime felons. If you come from nothing, have nothing and have no prospects what you get you take from somebody else. Like I said, it's a cultural thing. I have no answer.

Mass murderers are something else. Always young males, described as "loners". Who knows what drives their insane desire to murder innocents? We do know that the Columbine killers were on a payback mission. Bullied and ridiculed because they were different and didn't fit in, that was a case of "don't get mad, just get even". Firearms aren't the cause of their crimes, only tools to accomplish the deed. Now you take some schizo kid, park him in front of an X-Box or PlayStation for 12 hours a day carrying out umpteen thousands of virtual kills - when does he lose his sense of reality?

The national media is predominantly prohibitioninst and they will offer their opinion to the world. Congress will debate the issue (again) and likely pass laws to further restrict sales to lawful owners - maybe even some kind of registration scheme. But nothing will ever keep guns away from diabolical killers.

Brave post Frazer.  An interesting observation from one from the outside and I applaud it.  I had a few guns in my house, but decided to get rid of them cause I was battling serious depression and didn't want to become another statistic.  That all said, the right to own and bear guns, is deeply ingrained in American culture and isn't disappearing any time soon.

A good question after this latest episode is how outraged the public will become.  Will they demand something be done, or will it be back to their own selfish lives and pretend this'll never happen to me?

That teacher in the room next door is, I think, from my area and her quick reaction saved another 20+ children.  Obama should give her the freakin' Medal of Honor.

I'll try my best to make this concise, but I have to admit to having a myriad of thoughts on this topic. I'll start by saying that I am a fisherman, but not a hunter. However, I understand on some level, people who hunt in a responsible way (i.e. not just for sport, but to also put food on their table).
Although simplistic, I would loosely group guns into 3 categories:

1. Guns used for hunting/sport (non handguns)
2. Handguns
3. Crazy Stuff (assault weapons, etc)

I personally have no issue with group #1.

I have never owned any gun, handgun or otherwise, and never will. Perhaps it's my lack of experience with guns, but personally, I would not feel any safer with a gun in my home. I understand the thought process of people who want to protect their homes and families. I do believe we need to clamp down on the process for purchasing guns, especially the straw buyers: http://www.federalobserver.com/archive.php?aid=319
It is way too easy for the wrong people to obtain guns. There is no use stating my other opinions on group #2, because as a nation, we can't even address group #3.

As far as I'm concerned, there should be no way that a US citizen should be able to get their hands on any type of assault weapon: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_As … eapons_Ban
I fail to see how, in our present day and in light of all these heinous events, anyone can defend these weapons or consider it their constitutional right to own such a weapon.
What has not been discussed on this issue is the role of the NRA and the gun lobbyists in all of this. The NRA has taken the stance that giving up any ground, even on assault weapons, erodes their position and opens the door for future measures, in effect chipping away until all guns are eventually banned (my words, but I believe that is the crux of their defense of assault weapons).

I believe that money is a huge part of this equation. In the US alone, firearms and ammunition generates $11 billion in revenue annually and pays $123 million dollars per year in taxes.
They carry immense weight behind them, as does the NRA.

Changes to gun laws in this country will be very difficult to implement.
Somewhere I saw a statement someone made about people not needing guns in our current world. There are a myriad of thing in our lives that we don't need, but we want them anyway. The fact is, there is a fairly even percentage of US society that want guns...for a variety of reasons, as those that are opposed to them.

This is part of what makes this such a volatile issue.

Absolutely no one needs a gun.

THIS is the problem in this debate. This is what clouds judgement of politicians. These 2 facts assuming that they are correct are why a solution will not be found.

It took irrefutable evidence for congress to act on smoking. All the while opinions and issues such a sporting guns and "right to bare arms" cloud the debate nothing will change.

The trouble is that "assault weapons" (fully automatic weapons) are notoriously difficult to obtain. One requires a special Federal Firearms License to have them. And most states prohibit them anyhow, regardless if you do have the proper license.

What the media deems as "assault weapons" are semi-automatic rifles that are based on fully automatic designs. They look scary so therefore they are "bad". There are semi-automatic hunting rifles that operate the same and are capable of the same rate of fire that aren't on the gun banners radar (because they don't look scary).

I can't comment on the availability of handguns in other states. Where I live, to obtain a handgun permit you need to have a background check done, provide proof of handgun safety training, provide references and get fingerprinted. Obviously a criminal wouldn't get through this process. Even to buy handgun caliber ammunition, one needs to present their permit to the retailer.

The government can legislate what types of firearms and ammunition and accessories (like extended magazines) that can be legally obtained but none of it will keep guns away from criminals and psychos who can get them on the black market, or in the case of the Newtown killer, got them from his parent.

It's a scary world out there. Firearm ownership in America is fortunately a personal decision. I'm glad that we all have a choice in the matter.

My heart goes out to the victims and their families of the Sandy Hook massacre. But at what point do we sack the Bill of Rights?