1 (edited by Curby 2012-10-18 08:49:00)

Topic: Recycled Music: When is it time to salvage your reputation?

I've been thinking about this subject for a long time and have to begun to think far too many bands/artists of my generation are starting to embarrass themselves with shameful recordings, lame concerts, etc.  Before The Who shouted "I hope I die before I get old", I took it they were talking about someone over thirty.  Back then I thought someone over sixty was freaking ancient.  Nowadays we've got rockers with walkers thinking they can still get high and pick up a Fender, or God forbid, step in front of a microphone.  I compare this situation to a good friend suffering a terminal illness and you don't want your last image of them so sick.

I don't know why this bothers me, but I've grown tired of my heroes doing yet another variation of a forty year-old hit song.  It doesn't seem right.  The Beatles stopped making music together in 1969 at the height of their popularity and I think John, Paul and George did the right thing.  Now don't get me wrong, not everyone runs out of writing ability or has an expiration date to singing and playing.  In the Blues genre we've got a bunch that actually have gotten better over the years and some rock artists that have successfully reinvented their careers.  In my opinion those lucky ones are the exception rather the rule.  One thing you will never hear me say is I saw so and so to add on my bucket list.  At my age I'm not trying to impress anyone anymore.

Re: Recycled Music: When is it time to salvage your reputation?

With few exceptions I agree Curby. Very few of the tours excite my interest unless it is a group I think might still get it on. A recent one was John Hiatt. He played some of his newly released songs mixed in with old favorites and his new songs were relevant. His playing was good and he celebrated his age, stating that he never thought he'd be doing this at 60. "60 is the new 16." More than a few should have put the git in the stand and rested on their laurels and residuals. I am guilty of hitting a few acts I missed while in the family mode years when the entertainment budget was dedicated to other things, but not before checking out some vids of recent performances on Youtube. I'll never go see an act just for the name.
Rick

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Re: Recycled Music: When is it time to salvage your reputation?

With the number of 50th Anniversary Tours coming round, I think this is an appropriately times thread. I wonder though, if it's always a good idea for some bands; Curby quoted the famous line from The Who, but there's a one from Marillion that always sticks in my mind as to the fate of some bands - "just another toupee on the caberet scene" - how many have fallen into that trap?

Mike

When life gives you lemons; don't make lemonade.
Give back the lemons.  Why were the lemons free?  What's wrong with the lemons?
Do Not trust the lemons...

Re: Recycled Music: When is it time to salvage your reputation?

Well Paul Rodgers has said, when it is no longer fun for him, that is when he will give it up.
He's fortunate right now that he had his career and actually enjoys semi-retirement.

I've seen a number of young acts that are high and put on a terrible show.

I know what you mean about them getting older.  But I don't expect as much, cause it is harder when you get older.  This is there means of living, so this is what they know and their bread and butter.

I will not pay high prices, but I want to see them before something happens.  I just saw Eddie Van Halen and he was ON FIRE!  Glad he made his comeback.  Although he just had surgery and hope he will be alright.  Brian Lee was on an oxygen tank during breaks, bless his heart, but gave it everything he had and it's always a party when he is playing.  Such a sweet man. Had a great time at the Paul McCartney show, always fun.

You make a good point, but there are some older acts that still try and bring what they can.  The Stones are the next ones that come to mind.  I just look at the reviews beforehand and see what it's like and decide if I want to go.  Oh and Robin Trower, wouldn't miss him,he's a treasure. 

I still want a Pink Floyd tour.  May never happen, but I would definitely go. 

It's hard to know when to hang it up.  But it is in their blood.

"Holy Toledo"  -  Bill King   "Just Win Baby" - Al Davis  "The Autumn Wind" - Steve Sabol

Re: Recycled Music: When is it time to salvage your reputation?

You'll miss these guys enormously when they are gone, so go and see them when they play. My heroes are now in their 60's and 70's and they may not be around much longer!!.

Most do still put on a great show. 

I always try and see Elton perform live. The guys a phenomonen.  We saw Purple with the Frankfurt orchestra earlier this year - had a ball.  Roger Waters shows are brilliant. As somebody else mentioned, Robin Trower, John Mayall may look like your grandad, but they can still put on a performance.  Hell, Walter Trouts 61 and judging by last weeks gig, hes got years of hard rocking left in him.

Wishbone Ash, Focus, Groundhogs were touring last year as a'legends of rock' triumvirate and they were fantastic.

In short - if these guys are willing to play for you in their later years, then we should show our respect and cheer them on !!

(Except the Stones, because their ticket pricing etc stinks)

Re: Recycled Music: When is it time to salvage your reputation?

Age should not come into it, talent should. Some old bands out there still giving great shows. One or two who have lost it. I have seen young bands put on a pedestal and deliver an atrocious live show.
These days with YouTube and mass reviews you know what delivery of dhow you are going up get before hand.
Peter Green is a classic, did not expect much at all and found him mesmorizing. He has his demons and the crowd willed him on, the whole room was one. Fabulous experience.
I have recently toured with Many 'older bands' in the last 3 years and all gave great shows.
Cannot think of an older artist who has disappointed me, except for Macca but I have never got him any way. So that was nothing to do with his age.
It is refreshing yo see that if done properly this genre can give an artist a long career. I toured with Robin Trower, 67 I believe and still delivering a stunning show.
The real big names just price me out. Although I would pay serious money to see Pink Floyd.

Re: Recycled Music: When is it time to salvage your reputation?

mbcl wrote:

Although I would pay serious money to see Pink Floyd.

No need to wonder about Floyd - Have you been to see the Roger Waters 'DSOTM' or 'Wall' shows ?

The Wall show in particular is spectacular - I was speaking to one of the tekkies in Birmingham last year and he said the light show alone cost £20 million to develop.

Goto 6:20 in this clip to see the most amazing visual display I've ever seen on stage in Comfortably Numb.  You many not want to listen to the whole solo, because Gilmour made a guest appearance and absolutely butchered it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUYzQaCCt2o

Waters solo band is just so good and Dave Kilminster is just one of the best players I have ever seen.

Re: Recycled Music: When is it time to salvage your reputation?

So who are the people that should hang it up?

The Rolling Stones? They were 'old' 30 years ago but keep making records and touring.
Kiss? Makeup is back on, new album - and two original members replaced but makeup is the same. sad
Aerosmith? They breakup and get back together all the time
The Who? Just super old and sometimes uninteresting.
Ozzy Osbourne?
Black Sabbath?

THEN on the same token, what makes it acceptable for Eric Clapton, Buddy Guy, Carlos Santana, or Jimmy Vaughan to keep making recordings?

I think when older bands still tour, it's a nostalgia thing - but they're mere shells of their former selves. Almost like a throwback of sorts. Not great, but sometimes you appreciate the effort.

- Nic from Detroit... posting on JB's Forum since 6-2-2006
Ask me about my handwound Great Lakes Guitar Pickups
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Re: Recycled Music: When is it time to salvage your reputation?

And who can discount Skynyrd. Only one (two if you count Mr Medlocke as drummer for a while in the 70's)original band member, their live show is awesome and powerful, they tour constantly and still make excellent albums. They state they will continue as long as the public want them to. Age is relative, if it's still good, keep going to see them, if they stink don't. Simple. big_smile

Come on the Blades (sorry Idolbone just had to borrow your line)

Re: Recycled Music: When is it time to salvage your reputation?

The RiverCat^-^ wrote:

I still want a Pink Floyd tour.  May never happen, but I would definitely go.

With you Cat^-^ !  Seen the Stones, The Who, Zeppelin, & the Floyd, - like you - definitely go again!

GOOD KARMA - http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m3zkw … o1_500.jpg
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We Are The Champ20ns

Re: Recycled Music: When is it time to salvage your reputation?

A friend of mine mentioned to me last week the high number of celebrities that are broke and it gave me pause.  I don't have a problem with bands getting wheeled out on stage to play "Satisfaction" for the millionth time.  To perform the same songs over and over and over takes its toll, but that's the profession they chose and the price they pay.  It's the passion I'm interested in and when it ends I'm looking for musicians that have it.  I recently saw Boscoe France at the Lamasco bar for free.  On Bluesdays, as they call it, there's no cover and Boscoe comes ready to play.  You can feel the hunger in his performance as he clearly loves to play guitar.  He makes his money on the weekends and probably does the tuesday gig to spread the word.  His dream is to hit the bigtime and he's well on his way.
A good friend of mine was a plant manager in the nineties in Ohio and two members of The McCoys of "Hang On Sloopy" fame worked for him.  Life went on for those guys and their bandmate, Rick Derringer, had better luck, and went on to play with Johnny Winter and have a modest solo career.  Musicians are no different from anyone else and like all of us the big mistake comes when the word entitlement comes into the equation.  I guess that's the thing that bugs me about a band charging $250 a ticket, blowing off their fans and going through the motions for 60 minutes.  That's entitlement.  Of course there are many aged artists that still give it everything they got and God bless them. 
I'll have to continue this later as I have a doctor appointment to go to (knee surgery on the horizon).

Re: Recycled Music: When is it time to salvage your reputation?

Hi, I've got some views on this. I think it depends on the credibility of the artist concerned and whether they are still producing material. Buddy Guy and BB King are two older musicians that I've seen in recent years. I'd never seen either before and really glad that I did so. Likewise I'm pleaaed to have seen guys like John Mayall, Peter Green, T-Model Ford etc. Most of these acts I'll never have the chance to see again. If people want to pay to see the Rolling Stones or the Who, that's also fine with me. The main guys in these bands are still within the band.

What I have a bigger issue with is bands with scarcely one remaining member or where the band is still touring where primary composer is no longer with us. Dr Feelgood is a clear example, and also acts like the Yardbirds, The Animals (without Eric Burdon), Thin Lizzy, Chickenshack, there was even a band called Taste a couple of years ago, despite Rory G passing away in 1994. Then there's the case of two Wishbone Ashes. My parents recently saw the Pacemakers, the name sounds quite apt given the age of the respective members! smile

The irony is that many of these acts are still able to command festival slots at events such as Cambridge and Skegness, to the detriment of new acts. In my view the acts in my second paragraph lack credibility. Having said that I will be seeing Powell's Wishbone Ash tonight as the Mentulls are supporting them, and I've not seen them yet.

One thing I am unsure about is how beneficial touring with the likes of Ash or Robin Trower is for younger acts, as it seems to be placing them in the wrong audience demographic.

"The recently formed Edinburgh Blues Club has identified an appetite for the personal communication between musicians and audience that the blues long ago perfected." The Herald Newspaper (Scotland)
http://www.edinburgh-blues.uk

13 (edited by BansheeUK 2012-10-19 05:52:07)

Re: Recycled Music: When is it time to salvage your reputation?

Greenose wrote:

What I have a bigger issue with is bands with scarcely one remaining member or where the band is still touring where primary composer is no longer with us. Dr Feelgood is a clear example, and also acts like the Yardbirds, The Animals (without Eric Burdon), Thin Lizzy, Chickenshack, there was even a band called Taste a couple of years ago, despite Rory G passing away in 1994. Then there's the case of two Wishbone Ashes. My parents recently saw the Pacemakers, the name sounds quite apt given the age of the respective members! smile

Agree, for the most part; I'll probably be seeing Dr Feelgood shortly, for the first time, but have to say its because VATA & The Mentulls are the supports - and that its in a hall very local to me. Thin Lizzy, I agree; though I'm not keen on "tribute bands", I have heard there are some better than the current Lynott-less band; however, there is word that Gorham & Co are recording, and if the product comes up to scratch, then they are still a viable band and I think then the argument should be that they change the name somehow, i.e. drop the "Thin". Deep Purple could easily be included here; only Ian Paice being original member (both times round...).

Aside from bands at the "pop" end of the spectrum - those I call the caberet toupes, the last couple of years has seen a resurgeance in 80s hair-metal bands that were scuppered by the rise of Grunge. If they've still got it on stage and can produce something worth listening to, then all well and good, but what if its a case to top up the pension plan? Do I include Van Halen here?

The irony is that many of these acts are still able to command festival slots at events such as Cambridge and Skegness, to the detriment of new acts. In my view the acts in my second paragraph lack credibility. Having said that I will be seeing Powell's Wishbone Ash tonight as the Mentulls are supporting them, and I've not seen them yet.

One thing I am unsure about is how beneficial touring with the likes of Ash or Robin Trower is for younger acts, as it seems to be placing them in the wrong audience demographic.

Yeah, but have you not noticed, when going to see these bands, certainly the majority of the audience is we "mature" persons, often with offspring in tow...(willing or otherwise is debateable) and this "second generation" hopefully, will pick up on the younger support. As a case in point, I'd cite the recent Rival Sons tour; sure Classic Rock did a lot to promote the band, but outside the High Voltage Festival, they toured here with Judas Priest, hardly spring-chickens, a couple of times, until this year they headlined themselves. At the Newcastle gig, more than half the audience were under 30. I suppose another thing to consider, in these money-tight times, are venues and promoters more apt to take a chance on an "established" name over a relative unknown? Don't knock the power of nostalgia, which brings me back to the point of the second generation being dragged along.

Trying to bring things back to Curby's original issue; there are still a lot of bands that I'd still like to see, Rush, The Cure, that some would call "veterans" but does that make them obsolete? Simply, there are always going to be 3 basic camps:- die hard fans who see no wrong:  those who think they (bands) are past their best and should hang up the toupe and corsets: and those still curious to see the act. That said, I supose you could say that along with The Beatles, ABBA are an act who "retired" with credability intact.

Just a few thoughts.

Mike


PS - Enjoy The Mentulls, cracking band on-stage, crackin' lads off stage.

When life gives you lemons; don't make lemonade.
Give back the lemons.  Why were the lemons free?  What's wrong with the lemons?
Do Not trust the lemons...

14 (edited by mbcl 2012-10-19 06:09:30)

Re: Recycled Music: When is it time to salvage your reputation?

Sorry Duncan but that is a ridiculous statement. It is not the only audience out there just part of what is available and it works extremely well, if done properly. The contacts and friendships made reach far beyond the shows. You get press present, that would overlook a young band.
To be honest we would open for slots anyone who draws a crowd. We are simply there to add to our audience.
You really should try managing one the bands who desperately need help, you seem to have all the answers.
Also young folks go to these gigs too? Some rather tasty young ladies at Wilko's gig last night buying tshirts.
Going off topic sorry.

Greenose wrote:

One thing I am unsure about is how beneficial touring with the likes of Ash or Robin Trower is for younger acts, as it seems to be placing them in the wrong audience demographic.

Re: Recycled Music: When is it time to salvage your reputation?

Mike, Thin Lizzy have announced they will be breaking up after the current tour. They've decided it was not appropriate to record together under the Thin Lizzy name.

http://www.ukfestivalguides.com/news/13 … -new-album

Martin, I don't claim to have all the answers, and I certainly don't have time for management, but I do my part. The veteran circuit has it's benefits (more disposable cash etc) but also its limitations too.

"The recently formed Edinburgh Blues Club has identified an appetite for the personal communication between musicians and audience that the blues long ago perfected." The Herald Newspaper (Scotland)
http://www.edinburgh-blues.uk

16 (edited by samjp4 2012-10-19 09:44:32)

Re: Recycled Music: When is it time to salvage your reputation?

mbcl wrote:

Sorry Duncan but that is a ridiculous statement. It is not the only audience out there just part of what is available and it works extremely well, if done properly. The contacts and friendships made reach far beyond the shows. You get press present, that would overlook a young band.
To be honest we would open for slots anyone who draws a crowd. We are simply there to add to our audience.
You really should try managing one the bands who desperately need help, you seem to have all the answers.
Also young folks go to these gigs too? Some rather tasty young ladies at Wilko's gig last night buying tshirts.
Going off topic sorry.

Greenose wrote:

One thing I am unsure about is how beneficial touring with the likes of Ash or Robin Trower is for younger acts, as it seems to be placing them in the wrong audience demographic.

I know off topic, sorry, but just wanted to get this in.  Here in the States opening slots for some bands can do your career an awful lot of good.  Back Door Slam got a lot of fans from opening for Govt Mule (we saw them the first night they played together  and then one of the last - the amount of people who showed up ontime for the "opener" at that last show was amazing).  Grace Potter and the Nocturnals also got a huge boost when they opened for Mule.

Now on topic - I saw most of the "older" groups that are still touring that I wanted to see back in the day, so I really don't care about seeing them now "as a shell."  Tom Petty is someone I will always go see (and to date he has kept his prices reasonable), the Stones and Aerosmith - way, way tooo pricey - I'll manage quite nicely remembering I saw them when.  I am tempted to go see Neil Young and Crazy Horse but he is so unpredictable I'm not sure I want to pay a lot of money for who knows what kind of show he'll bring that night.  Neil still has it, but what he plays on any given night is a crapshoot at best.

What I find sad is that so many of these skeleton bands just need the money - they either made it and threw it away back in the day, or never got it in the first place.

Sandy

"There's a lot of people that are in so much of a hurry to be, I guess, to be famous or that they don't want to take the time to learn to play and do all that.They'd rather just knock it down off a computer and maybe get on a game show and get famous..That's fine if that's what you want to do.
"We're more old school than that. We like creating the sounds."  - Tom Petty

Re: Recycled Music: When is it time to salvage your reputation?

The only show I've seen in the last ten years where the overriding thought was, 'I wish you had just retired' was Santana.

I hate the whole duet and collaboration stuff he has been doing from Supernatual onwards. 'All That I am' is just dire, but even thats better than the truly awful 'Guitar Heaven'.

When you consider that this guy was one of the most passionate and exciting players out there, It almost hurts to here these 'smooth' ditties, each perpetuated with the same re-cycled licks and fills.


So now I just play 'Brothers' and the amazing 'Oneness - Silver dreams- Golden Reality', which is a solo album released under the name 'Devadip Carlos Santana' and if you have not heard it -  I can highly recommend it !!

Re: Recycled Music: When is it time to salvage your reputation?

Sorry to bang on but its still makes no sense. We are currently out with Wilko and sold more tshirts to young ladies than we ever have. We seeing far more young folks coming out with their mums and dads.
As for limitations, there are none at all. The audience is the audience and they will differ from artists to artist. If you can figure out a way of getting a room full of youngsters to see this genre, please we are all ears (playing schools and such aside). Which artists should we be touring with (that are not going charge ridiculous fees for supports).

Greenose wrote:

Martin, I don't claim to have all the answers, and I certainly don't have time for management, but I do my part. The veteran circuit has it's benefits (more disposable cash etc) but also its limitations too.