• From: Danville, IL
  • Registered: 2012-02-18
  • Posts: 458

Topic: Copping Chops?

I posted this towards the end of a long thread down in "Other Artists"  - but then had two people PM me that they were *rolling* when they heard the story - so going to post it here and pretend it belongs in Guitars, Amps and Gear because it's about copping someone's chops.

Here's the story:

I'm playing mostly guitar now, but used to be a drummer for a few years (that was after I was a bassist/keyboardist for a few years).

Anyways, when in "drum mode" in the mid 80s I went to a drum clinic by Carmine Appice and there was a meet and greet at the end to get a quick Polaroid (remember those?) and/or something signed.

I was a huge Carmine Appice fan from way back, so when I met him I said, "I've been stealing your chops since Vanilla Fudge and everybody thinks I'm great - do you know how many times I've got laid because of you?!"

He laughed so hard!  He really enjoyed that story and was chuckling about it and shaking his head for five minutes - said he'd never heard a story like that before and he appreciated the honesty.

So, do you all steal licks as shamelessly as I do?  Hey - at least I'm honest about it! smile

kestrou

  • Devan
  • Devan
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  • From: Darwin, Australia
  • Registered: 2010-04-13
  • Posts: 1,304

Re: Copping Chops?

Hahaha ... Great story...

I've been copping licks for a while too, with nowhere near the same results... big_smile

JBLP Gold Top #129 - redubbed "#1 in Oz"

3 Reply by ZeyerGTR (edited by ZeyerGTR 2012-10-10 15:08:38)

  • From: Orlando, FL
  • Registered: 2010-04-15
  • Posts: 1,374

Re: Copping Chops?

Absolutely - I think it's a tradition that goes back to the creation of music itself.  Certainly a tradition in blues & rock.

The key, though, is to be able to make those licks sound like you, instead of just you shoving someone else's lick into your playing.  Just takes some time and practice.  I don't think of myself as a "lick" player, but if I sat back and really analyzed everything I played  bet 75% (or more) of it was straight up taken from someone else.  I mean, I learned it from somewhere, right?  Even if it's a simple A minor arpeggio, that's lifted from an exercise lifted from a Paganini caprice or a million other pieces.  Anything I do that's bluesy is a result of me listening to albums and learning the tunes.  It's not really a conscious thing, it just comes out because that's what I hear.  Hopefully I put it together in a way that sounds like me.

Great story, by the way!

My music & music blog: https://vincedickinson.home.blog/
New prog/rock album "Atlantis" available everywhere, including:
https://itunes.apple.com/us/album/atlantis/1411523163
https://open.spotify.com/album/3InrPujiALJCslZqp9V6e2

ZeyerGTR's Website

  • From: Edwardsville, IL
  • Registered: 2010-05-17
  • Posts: 656

Re: Copping Chops?

Guitar playing is all about copping chops.

my guitar playing. http://www.youtube.com/user/09ncowan?feature=mhee
  • From: New Hampshire, USA
  • Registered: 2010-12-21
  • Posts: 3,650

Re: Copping Chops?

who doesn't?

"Joe B saved my soul, forever grateful Ron"
"Some people dream of worthy accomplishments while others stay awake and do them"
Skinner #1,JBLP 145(aged),252, (unaged),#285HM, Bburst #026, Joes 052 BCC black LP, Strat> RT,EC Gilmour,Beck,Lenny LP> PK 83,CC#2,3,4,9,Amps>Carol Ann RAH JB-100 SN 001,JB100 Red SN02,OD2, OD3,Tucana 2&3 Triptix,Twinkle land, Plexi ,JB Jub, Jubs,Plexi,Satch,Two Rock>others
  • From: Glasgow, Scotland
  • Registered: 2012-05-31
  • Posts: 170

Re: Copping Chops?

yea there isn't a musician alive who hasn't at some stage built their vocabulary by copying what they've heard from others.

However i've recently arrived at a stage where i feel a but unfulfilled if i cant come up with a truly original idea, and am starting to see that there's no point in me playing stuff thats based or reminiscent of someone else's playing, and that the idea of adding something new to the spectrum is what motivates me to keep an extremely open mind. Which is why, im trying to think more in terms of 'making nice sounds & music' rather than playing clever licks i think will impress people.

I mean, if Guthrie Govan can come up with an idea for a piece of music based on the chirping patterns of birds in a park, then what else can influence our music?

My goal is to record a truly original piece of music that is artistically fulfilling and is composed/executed with the right intentions by the time i'm 21 (next month - YIKES!)

Sorry if i got a bit 'Zen there or something haha, just how my thought process goes i guess

Me playing Joe's actual Ibanez Tubescreamer pedal - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76jk58_vl2s

frazerburns19's Website

  • Devan
  • Devan
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  • From: Darwin, Australia
  • Registered: 2010-04-13
  • Posts: 1,304

Re: Copping Chops?

frazerburns19 wrote:

yea there isn't a musician alive who hasn't at some stage built their vocabulary by copying what they've heard from others.

However i've recently arrived at a stage where i feel a but unfulfilled if i cant come up with a truly original idea, and am starting to see that there's no point in me playing stuff thats based or reminiscent of someone else's playing, and that the idea of adding something new to the spectrum is what motivates me to keep an extremely open mind. Which is why, im trying to think more in terms of 'making nice sounds & music' rather than playing clever licks i think will impress people.

I mean, if Guthrie Govan can come up with an idea for a piece of music based on the chirping patterns of birds in a park, then what else can influence our music?

My goal is to record a truly original piece of music that is artistically fulfilling and is composed/executed with the right intentions by the time i'm 21 (next month - YIKES!)

Sorry if i got a bit 'Zen there or something haha, just how my thought process goes i guess

I know where you are coming from Frazer - been there before too (many times).

I've gone through a change in my playing recently, mainly from doing lessons with a good teacher who is stressing to me total fretboard familiarity.  This is making me think more in terms of 'notes of the scale' rather than 'lick patterns', and it is amazing how FREEING that is.

Perhaps if you work on familiarising yourself with ALL the notes on all frets of all strings (if you haven't already), and then move onto something esoteric like Indian Raga scales etc?  Some really strange and inspiring sounds can be found in those, and like Andy Summers (The Police), you can use them as a foundation for some new and unique sounds.

JBLP Gold Top #129 - redubbed "#1 in Oz"
  • From: Orlando, FL
  • Registered: 2010-04-15
  • Posts: 1,374

Re: Copping Chops?

This is making me think more in terms of 'notes of the scale' rather than 'lick patterns', and it is amazing how FREEING that is.

Agreed 100% with playing by notes rather than patterns.  It's a more direct connection between your ears and hands.  I wish I could do that all the time, but it's hard to break old habits, and it takes practice, like anything else.

One of the best things I ever did was teach myself to read music (Modern Method For Guitar, Vol 1 - great book), then go through the Real Book and start learning standards - chords and melodies.  It's really about melody (notes), not scales.  It's also really helpful to start learning melodies that weren't written for guitar, because they don't always fall into comfortable fingering patterns.  It was also helpful to see how those melodies fit over the chords, and how they work over the changes.

My music & music blog: https://vincedickinson.home.blog/
New prog/rock album "Atlantis" available everywhere, including:
https://itunes.apple.com/us/album/atlantis/1411523163
https://open.spotify.com/album/3InrPujiALJCslZqp9V6e2

ZeyerGTR's Website

  • From: Glasgow, Scotland
  • Registered: 2012-05-31
  • Posts: 170

Re: Copping Chops?

I agree with you both Devan and Zeyer, how you approach playing from a conceptual standpoint is EXTREMELY important.

I also find playing with my eyes closed to be a great way to just focus on the sound i am making, and having some form of intent behind every note/noise i make

Me playing Joe's actual Ibanez Tubescreamer pedal - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76jk58_vl2s

frazerburns19's Website

10 Reply by masque (edited by masque 2012-10-12 08:43:20)

  • From: kentucky
  • Registered: 2008-03-06
  • Posts: 304

Re: Copping Chops?

there's only twelve notes........so after 60+ years of rock and roll there arent any new licks......lol.....so yes, 100% of my playing incorporates the favorite elements of my favorite players.

everyone does that......even guys as good as Joe......to me when i hear him play there are times i listen and think "wow, Joe worships at the altar of eric johnson as much as I do"......lol....not meaning i play like either one of them but Joe is capable of playing licks as difficult and speedy as eric does and it totally shows that eric is a huge influence in his playing as well as his tone.

and to me that is 100% fine and is nothing but tribute towards eric.  joe sounds like joe but he has large dashes of his influences sprinkled all over his playing.

most of my friends think i sound like ty tabor in my note choices and tone and it makes sense to me when i hear myself most of the time.

great story by the way!!!!!!

masque's Website