Re: Fossil fuels, energy, the price of gas

All electric vehicles are a moderately decent idea.  Unfortunately, no one wants them.  GM is losing mucho dinero on every Volt built.  So what happens... our military are forced to buy them in order to "green up".  Admitedly, I'm cynical on this.  After all, the electricity is generted, in all liklihood, by a coal fired power plant so I guess I don't really understand the benefit.  I do, however, think hybrids are a good idea.  I'm simply not willing to pay more for one.  Once the technology improves and they can compete with internal combustion engines, they may have a fighting chance.

20 (edited by dknight16 2012-09-13 19:48:32)

Re: Fossil fuels, energy, the price of gas

Not sure how you want to measure "compete with ICE", but hybrids have a lot of extra content in addition to their base engine.  They will always cost more, but hopefully will at some point pay for themselves in fuel savings.  The problem right now is that it takes many years on the best examples and never pay back on far too many.  That only changes when gas costs more than $7 a gallon.

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21 (edited by Rockfarmer 2012-09-13 20:04:10)

Re: Fossil fuels, energy, the price of gas

dknight16 wrote:

The problem right now is that it takes many years on the best examples and never pay back on far too many.  That only changes when gas costs more than $7 a gallon.


Precisely.  As in any business decision, I would do a cost/benefit analysis to determine the payback.  I would guess that, over time, the cost to produce should come down and make them more attractive to the general public.  $7 gas would cripple the US

Re: Fossil fuels, energy, the price of gas

$8/gallon...not what you think, but accurate from a literal standpoint.
http://rt.com/business/news/lukoil-stat … otest-038/

"Rock ON & Keep the Faith"

Re: Fossil fuels, energy, the price of gas

RickB wrote:
Amsterhammer wrote:

Curby, I have done a search on google and on CNN and the only references I can find to $8 gas are historical ones, mostly from 08, and lots of speculation from earlier this year. If you post a title as 'emotive' as "8 Dollars a Freaking Gallon!!!!" you need to substantiate it with facts and a link. If you have one, please post it, or I will amend the title.


RickB wrote:

Don't forget our fearless leader's promise to make gasoline and electricity prices rise to those of Europe to wean us off oil and towards other sources. Seems that is one he's keeping. hmm
Rick

All I'll say before putting my hard hat on is that you know perfectly well (or should do) that heads of governments have precisely zilch to do with the price you pay at the pump. Whoever is in the White House, has no direct influence over the daily fluctuations in price. Over here, where we have national rather than state or regional tax on gas, governments who may wish to increase the tax have to go through the normal legislative process. No government can say, 'listen up, we're increasing the tax by x% overnight'. Of course, they can increase the tax after due process, but the daily fluctuations at the pump are down to oil companies, speculators, and that holy 'market, not to governments or heads of state.

Warning

This topic is a potential political minefield. Certainly, a discussion about fossil fuels, energy policy and the like, should be possible without trying to score cheap political points. Please bear this in mind and restrain yourselves. The moment this topic shows signs of going south, it will have to be locked. Unfortunately.

Without expanding, I'll point out our national administration's policies towards continental coal and other fossil fuel extraction has had a direct effect on fuel prices here. Agreed this is a touchy subject. I'll say no more. We happen to enjoy the highest gasoline prices in the nation here in San Diego. Near $.50/gal. on average above the reported national figures for no apparent reason than they can get away with it. There are strong feelings on all sides. It is best to leave well enough alone.

I heard that Chicago had the highest gas prices in the nation, but not sure how true that is...the lowest I've seen of late was $4.21/gal. I paid $4.27/gal today.

"Rock ON & Keep the Faith"

Re: Fossil fuels, energy, the price of gas

I got Arco regular today for 4.29. Wife's car only burns hi test Chevron. 4.45. Price varies across the county to .20 over that.
Rick

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Re: Fossil fuels, energy, the price of gas

RickB wrote:

I got Arco regular today for 4.29. Wife's car only burns hi test Chevron. 4.45. Price varies across the county to .20 over that.
Rick

Yeah, the prices I mentioned were for regular...I didn't pay attention to premium prices.
There are definitely some crazy fluctuations going on.
I was in Minnesota in July and paid somewhere in the vicinity of $3.59...don't remember the exact number, but it was the lowest I'd paid for quite some time.

"Rock ON & Keep the Faith"

Re: Fossil fuels, energy, the price of gas

Current Dutch prices, calculated into gallons and dollars, work out at between $8.30 - $8.50.

roll

RIP Iron Man

Rock On and keep the Faith

27 (edited by bonawho59 2012-09-14 12:14:47)

Re: Fossil fuels, energy, the price of gas

Bill S wrote:
RickB wrote:

I got Arco regular today for 4.29. Wife's car only burns hi test Chevron. 4.45. Price varies across the county to .20 over that.
Rick

Yeah, the prices I mentioned were for regular...I didn't pay attention to premium prices.
There are definitely some crazy fluctuations going on.
I was in Minnesota in July and paid somewhere in the vicinity of $3.59...don't remember the exact number, but it was the lowest I'd paid for quite some time.

State and local taxes, which are added to the price of a gallon of gas, are the reasons for the fluctuations. Some gas stations here in Maine post the amounts of these taxes right on their pumps. Maine also automatically raises these taxes EVERY YEAR. I'm SURE the feds do too.

So, if you're looking for someone to blame for these ridiculous prices, don't point your finger at "Big Oil". Gov't taxes, traders/speculators and turmoil in the middle east are the culprits. Big Oil just pumps the stuff as a commodity and off it goes to auction.

Oh, and if you think electric/hybrids are the way to go, do a little research into what is needed to manufacture one of their batteries.

Re: Fossil fuels, energy, the price of gas

bonawho59 wrote:
Bill S wrote:
RickB wrote:

I got Arco regular today for 4.29. Wife's car only burns hi test Chevron. 4.45. Price varies across the county to .20 over that.
Rick

Yeah, the prices I mentioned were for regular...I didn't pay attention to premium prices.
There are definitely some crazy fluctuations going on.
I was in Minnesota in July and paid somewhere in the vicinity of $3.59...don't remember the exact number, but it was the lowest I'd paid for quite some time.

State and local taxes, which are added to the price of a gallon of gas, are the reasons for the fluctuations. Some gas stations here in Maine post the amounts of these taxes right on their pumps. Maine also automatically raises these taxes EVERY YEAR. I'm SURE the feds do too.

So, if you're looking for someone to blame for these ridiculous prices, don't point your finger at "Big Oil". Gov't taxes, traders/speculators and turmoil in the middle east are the culprits. Big Oil just pumps the stuff as a commodity and off it goes to auction.

Oh, and if you think electric/hybrids are the way to go, do a little research into what is needed to manufacture one of their batteries.

I didn't mean fluctuations from area to area, I meant fluctuations from one fill up to the next. I've seen 25 cent jumps (up or down) between fill ups (a week or two).

"Rock ON & Keep the Faith"

Re: Fossil fuels, energy, the price of gas

I read a comparison recently of all the super high mileage cars produced and how long it would take to recover the additional cost you pay for the I feel good, I'm saving the planet option. The  single best car was the VW Jetta TDI diesel which delivers near 50mpg. It would pay back in 5 years at today's fuel costs. The rest were far behind with the pure electric at the bottom. A friend got one of the VW's and it is true, at 80mph cruising he gets 48mpg.
Rick

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Re: Fossil fuels, energy, the price of gas

As far as oil and gas prices, and as boring as it sounds, supply and demand must find an equilibrium and they do so through the price mechanism.  Without that we have the lines of the late 1970's.  How's that for trying hard to not get political?

Something few people think about that affects all commodities prices by driving them up is the Fed's (and other Central Banks') enormous money creation through the rounds of Quantitative Easing and Zero interest rates, such as the QE3 to infinity announced last Thursday. 

Inflation is more money chasing the same or fewer goods.  And Bernanke's stated desire is to weaken the dollar and drive up the price of stuff like the stock market and house prices, but the real effect is to drive up the price of food, gas, etc.  This hurts the little guy the most, but Mr. B has had his common sense amputated so he either can't see or admit it.  His answer to every problem is . . . more cowbell (money printing). 

Add to this the idiocy of our nation's ethanol policy, where around 50% of the corn crop is burnt up to make a fuel additive that may create less energy than the process of growing the corn and turning it into alcohol.  This and this year's drought creates food shortages around the world and may have a role in the unrest in the Third World.  To me this is the real energy scandal hiding in plain sight.

Re: Fossil fuels, energy, the price of gas

the dude wrote:

As far as oil and gas prices, and as boring as it sounds, supply and demand must find an equilibrium and they do so through the price mechanism.  Without that we have the lines of the late 1970's.  How's that for trying hard to not get political?

Something few people think about that affects all commodities prices by driving them up is the Fed's (and other Central Banks') enormous money creation through the rounds of Quantitative Easing and Zero interest rates, such as the QE3 to infinity announced last Thursday. 

Inflation is more money chasing the same or fewer goods.  And Bernanke's stated desire is to weaken the dollar and drive up the price of stuff like the stock market and house prices, but the real effect is to drive up the price of food, gas, etc.  This hurts the little guy the most, but Mr. B has had his common sense amputated so he either can't see or admit it.  His answer to every problem is . . . more cowbell (money printing). 

Add to this the idiocy of our nation's ethanol policy, where around 50% of the corn crop is burnt up to make a fuel additive that may create less energy than the process of growing the corn and turning it into alcohol.  This and this year's drought creates food shortages around the world and may have a role in the unrest in the Third World.  To me this is the real energy scandal hiding in plain sight.

+1000

Excellent post, Dude.

32 (edited by RickB 2012-09-15 15:43:13)

Re: Fossil fuels, energy, the price of gas

bonawho59 wrote:
the dude wrote:

As far as oil and gas prices, and as boring as it sounds, supply and demand must find an equilibrium and they do so through the price mechanism.  Without that we have the lines of the late 1970's.  How's that for trying hard to not get political?

Something few people think about that affects all commodities prices by driving them up is the Fed's (and other Central Banks') enormous money creation through the rounds of Quantitative Easing and Zero interest rates, such as the QE3 to infinity announced last Thursday. 

Inflation is more money chasing the same or fewer goods.  And Bernanke's stated desire is to weaken the dollar and drive up the price of stuff like the stock market and house prices, but the real effect is to drive up the price of food, gas, etc.  This hurts the little guy the most, but Mr. B has had his common sense amputated so he either can't see or admit it.  His answer to every problem is . . . more cowbell (money printing). 

Add to this the idiocy of our nation's ethanol policy, where around 50% of the corn crop is burnt up to make a fuel additive that may create less energy than the process of growing the corn and turning it into alcohol.  This and this year's drought creates food shortages around the world and may have a role in the unrest in the Third World.  To me this is the real energy scandal hiding in plain sight.

+1000

Excellent post, Dude.

Yep! As a dubious plus, that gasohol gets lower mileage than straight gasoline.

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Re: Fossil fuels, energy, the price of gas

Whoops, wrong topic! Sorry.  I don't feel like a nap right now, sew it up with the polticking, please.  This is a one-sided coin flip which comes up BORING either side.


...Saturday even, cheeeesshhh


Another entertaining topic, maybe?!


Rock ON & Keep the Faith,
Rocket

"He still doesn't charge for mistakes! wink"
http://jbonamassa.com/tour-dates/
"Everybody wants ta get inta the act!"
“Now, this isn’t your ordinary party crowd, here.  I mean, there are professionals in here.”

Re: Fossil fuels, energy, the price of gas

Go ahead and nap Rocket. It's too hot today to run around. Here's a solution for urban dwellers.

San Diego has the first car sharing with pure electric cars in the country. You join the club. When you want a car, log on with your smart phone and the co. will tell you where it is parked. Go and use your club card to enter and drive it where you want, park it and notify the co. you are through with it. They take care of service and charging. You are charged by time and mileage on your account. It is spreading to other cities and I see these little white and blue roller skates all over. http://www.car2go.com/sandiego/en/concept/
Rick

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Re: Fossil fuels, energy, the price of gas

Sounds like a hassle.

Gibson 60th Anniversary 1959 Les Paul Reissue, Gibson LP Standard Faded CSB, Gibson Gary Moore LP Standard, Epi Joe Bonamassa GT LP, Epi Zakk Wylde LP, Dean Michael Schenker Flying V, Jackson Randy Rhoads V, ESP/LTD George Lynch Kamikaze, EVH Striped Series R/B/W, Fender/Squire John 5 Telecaster, Fender Joe Strummer Relic Telecaster

36 (edited by Rocket 2012-09-15 20:58:23)

Re: Fossil fuels, energy, the price of gas

RickB wrote:

Go ahead and nap Rocket. It's too hot today to run around. Here's a solution for urban dwellers.

San Diego has the first car sharing with pure electric cars in the country. You join the club. When you want a car, log on with your smart phone and the co. will tell you where it is parked. Go and use your club card to enter and drive it where you want, park it and notify the co. you are through with it. They take care of service and charging. You are charged by time and mileage on your account. It is spreading to other cities and I see these little white and blue roller skates all over. http://www.car2go.com/sandiego/en/concept/
Rick

Whoa!!! Dang Email ding woke me!  I've seen these car and bike (and boat) deals worldwide.


It's funny Rick, I've seen these cars, but I've never seen these cars locally in that blue & white color scheme.  I do know there is a touristy "tour San Diego" electric cars company, plus I have seen green and yellow schemed urban rental vehicles and actual owners of "smart cars".


...I've got to learn to turn off auto-subscribe to off topics I no longer can find interest of...


Well, if I could get ahold of one of those cars that drive themselves....now THAT would be interesting (I'd name her Miss T. Rita, aka Rocket's RoboRide Rickshaw yikes), especially if I could always get 'er up to 88 mph! wink


Rock ON & Keep the Faith,
Rocket

"He still doesn't charge for mistakes! wink"
http://jbonamassa.com/tour-dates/
"Everybody wants ta get inta the act!"
“Now, this isn’t your ordinary party crowd, here.  I mean, there are professionals in here.”