Re: Palmer Speaker Emulators
I absolutely hate dealing with mics, would like to have a pair of these however I'm sure they're not cheap.
- helrazr84
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Re: Palmer Speaker Emulators
André wrote:
I have a Palmer and used it for the first time on a gig last month. No mic, directly into the mixer and very happy with the result. My 4x12 cab was just for monitor on stage. My dear Silver Jub was very happy behind the plexi glass wall as well, so this combo - Palmer + plexi - is a killer combination and highly recommended! No more sound men telling me to turn the amp down:-)
Rock on!
Andre'
Interesting! So how do you set yours up? Do you still connect your head to a speaker cabinet and if so how do you set up the volume on this? I read that the cabinet can be used for monitoring but is there a dedicated output volume for the cab besides the output volume for the mixing board?
If his thing does what it says, I may sell my power attenuator...
- NPB_EST.1979
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Re: Palmer Speaker Emulators
twistingcrow wrote:
So how do you set yours up? Do you still connect your head to a speaker cabinet and if so how do you set up the volume on this? I read that the cabinet can be used for monitoring but is there a dedicated output volume for the cab besides the output volume for the mixing board?
If his thing does what it says, I may sell my power attenuator...
Exactly! I'm also greatly interested in this.
- Nic from Detroit... posting on JB's Forum since 6-2-2006
Ask me about my handwound Great Lakes Guitar Pickups
Since 2010, Bonamassa fans have taken advantage of my JB friend discount = my cost + shipping.
Ask me about my handwound Great Lakes Guitar Pickups
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Re: Palmer Speaker Emulators
After further investigation the PDI-03 is definitely the way to go for great, manageable stage volumes! I'm on my way to buy one. The only drawback, so to speak, is that you can't use it for attenuation and line out at the same time when you connect a speaker cab. It's either no cab and an attenuation or cab and no attenuation.
So all you have to do is bringing in an empty cab just for the looks, and send your amp head into the PDI-03 and Mixing board/PA.
Of course if its users out there want to chime in and add their own tips and hindsight on this please do so!
Re: Palmer Speaker Emulators
twistingcrow wrote:
André wrote:I have a Palmer and used it for the first time on a gig last month. No mic, directly into the mixer and very happy with the result. My 4x12 cab was just for monitor on stage. My dear Silver Jub was very happy behind the plexi glass wall as well, so this combo - Palmer + plexi - is a killer combination and highly recommended! No more sound men telling me to turn the amp down:-)
Rock on!
Andre'
Interesting! So how do you set yours up? Do you still connect your head to a speaker cabinet and if so how do you set up the volume on this? I read that the cabinet can be used for monitoring but is there a dedicated output volume for the cab besides the output volume for the mixing board?
If his thing does what it says, I may sell my power attenuator...
There's a dedicated output volume for the mixer input, but not for the cab. You get the same volume from the cab as you do without the Palmer. However, I believe you can use Palmer without a cab, running the signal directly into the mixer. Haven't tried that yet.
- wharris
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Re: Palmer Speaker Emulators
Just interpose an attenuator between the "thru" output and your cabinet. The filter out can go to the PA independent of this. Then you have your speakers pushing air on stage, but your FOH tone won't be effected by the attenuator.
- NPB_EST.1979
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Re: Palmer Speaker Emulators
wharris wrote:
Just interpose an attenuator between the "thru" output and your cabinet. The filter out can go to the PA independent of this. Then you have your speakers pushing air on stage, but your FOH tone won't be effected by the attenuator.
Are you saying amp->Palmer thru->attenuator->speaker cab and Palmer Line out->PA ???
I'd rather not bring a palmer and an attenuator to a gig, when bringing a cab mic would be less to carry with either an attenuator OR a Palmer.
I'd love to try one of these out... but it would be nice if it could do both...
- Nic from Detroit... posting on JB's Forum since 6-2-2006
Ask me about my handwound Great Lakes Guitar Pickups
Since 2010, Bonamassa fans have taken advantage of my JB friend discount = my cost + shipping.
Ask me about my handwound Great Lakes Guitar Pickups
Since 2010, Bonamassa fans have taken advantage of my JB friend discount = my cost + shipping.
- helrazr84
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Re: Palmer Speaker Emulators
Yeah thats what he's saying. These units are cheaper than I thought. Could have sworn they were over a thousand one time I looked? Hate to go too off topic but is there something comparable to the Palmer but a cheaper alternative? As in a specific Direct Out box. I'm using 2 amps into a 2x12 in stereo so obviously I get a good bit of bleed of each speaker into each microphone. Hate to, nor do I have 1,200 to drop on two of these. -S
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Re: Palmer Speaker Emulators
I have heard Hughes and Kettner Red Box is the legendary thing for going into a PA from a line out from an amp to make the guitar sound from a PA sound more like a guitar amp. They run around $79
http://www.hughes-and-kettner.com/products.php5?id=110
"Red Box® Classic is the latest version of our industry-standard DI box with speaker simulation. Particularly for live applications, this amazing tool warrants consistent sound quality at every gig and puts an end to crosstalk. Thanks to its clear, direct sound, the Red Box will endear you to every seasoned PA tech – total tonal satisfaction guaranteed. And in the studio, it saves precious time by sparing you the hassles of experimenting with microphone placement. The secret behind many of today’s bestsounding guitar tracks is that they are double-tracked with a microphone and a Red Box Classic. This enables a perfect mix of room ambience and ultra-direct attack. Red Box Classic – the “toneful” way to get the full tone!"
- Nic from Detroit... posting on JB's Forum since 6-2-2006
Ask me about my handwound Great Lakes Guitar Pickups
Since 2010, Bonamassa fans have taken advantage of my JB friend discount = my cost + shipping.
Ask me about my handwound Great Lakes Guitar Pickups
Since 2010, Bonamassa fans have taken advantage of my JB friend discount = my cost + shipping.
- sted
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Re: Palmer Speaker Emulators
Check out the Faustine phantom and the Sequis Motherload Elemental as well, the palmer is great but is an old design really. For straight guitar DI check out the Radial JDX and JDI, well respected make with great speaker sims.
- wharris
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Re: Palmer Speaker Emulators
helrazr84 wrote:
is there something comparable to the Palmer but a cheaper alternative? As in a specific Direct Out box. I'm using 2 amps into a 2x12 in stereo so obviously I get a good bit of bleed of each speaker into each microphone. Hate to, nor do I have 1,200 to drop on two of these. -S
There are cheaper alternatives, but none as good. Do not use a standerd DI to interface with your board. The Phantom is a very good attenuator and a decent speaker emulator (not as good as Palmer). They aren't being made any more and are approaching Klon status on eBay.
30 2012-06-29 15:09:21 (edited by helrazr84 2012-06-29 15:11:21)
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Re: Palmer Speaker Emulators
Ok, thanks guys. I like the Palmer, who wouldn't, and I also like that its a rackmount unit. I have a small rack case with my wireless, reverb, power conditioner and a drawer for cables that I always use when I play. These would sit nicely in there..too bad $$$$. The H&K Red wouldn't work anyway since my amps don't have a line out. I'll check Sted's suggestions, not sure what they are off top of my head. For now, it looks like I'm mic'ing it! -S
Also, to clarify: A DI box is not the same as a speaker simulator? I'm guessing that only because the Palmer for example has control knobs to "simulate" speaker cabinet characteristics. But like I said above, I don't have a line out on my amps so something like that will not work for me.
31 2012-06-29 15:11:58 (edited by NPB_EST.1979 2012-07-02 07:31:53)
- NPB_EST.1979
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Re: Palmer Speaker Emulators
just looked up Klon. I must be living under a rock. Klon Centaur pedal? I recognize the pedal, but the name threw me for a loop.
A DI box, from what I recall, balances a signal for a PA or input that could blow up if it took an unbalanced signal. Speakers take unbalanced signals, but other electronics like PA systems cannot without a DI box to balance the signal. I mean it "could" take the unbalanced signal without noticing damage for a while, but it's not advisable.
- Nic from Detroit... posting on JB's Forum since 6-2-2006
Ask me about my handwound Great Lakes Guitar Pickups
Since 2010, Bonamassa fans have taken advantage of my JB friend discount = my cost + shipping.
Ask me about my handwound Great Lakes Guitar Pickups
Since 2010, Bonamassa fans have taken advantage of my JB friend discount = my cost + shipping.
- helrazr84
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Re: Palmer Speaker Emulators
Well after taking a closer look into the H&K I see it does simulate speakers. From the picture and supplied description, I assumed it was just a di box.
33 2012-06-29 19:26:26 (edited by wharris 2012-06-29 19:29:08)
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Re: Palmer Speaker Emulators
helrazr84 wrote:
Also, to clarify: A DI box is not the same as a speaker simulator? I'm guessing that only because the Palmer for example has control knobs to "simulate" speaker cabinet characteristics.
You are absolutely correct. A DI only changes the signal impedance from your guitar to a level that a PA board needs. You need a speaker sim. or the coloration and "manipulation" of your signal by (at least) the pre-amp section of an amp for your signal to sound like something you would want to hear.
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Re: Palmer Speaker Emulators
Thanks Wharris, yeah it all makes sense to me now. However with the popularity of the EVM speakers on this forum, and their ability to not color your tone; I'd think a regular DI box would do about the same thing by giving the mixing board exactly what the amp is pushing out? -S
p.s. sorry to the OP for this getting off topic. You know how discussions go though..
- wharris
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Re: Palmer Speaker Emulators
Actually, there are some rather unpleasant high-frequency harmonics produced by amplifiers. These are attenuated by the speakers (even "neutral" speakers).
- Zen Guitar
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Re: Palmer Speaker Emulators
Something that you may want to consider as an alternate to analog cabinet emulation circuits (such as the Palmer) is using digital impulse responses. You can create these on your own, purchase commercially available IR's of various cabinet/speaker/mic combinations (such as from Red Wirez), as well as create amalgamated IR's which represent a custom blend of various individual IR's to replicate multi-mic and cab micing. You would run these IR's via a convolution program on your computer (such as a plug in within a DAW) or via dedicated hardware, such as with this unit..
IR's can be very good, but by nature of the transfer functions, can not model non-linearities such as speaker break-up.
Of course, IR's can be similarly used for reverbs, filters, etc.
Hope this helps!
-Matt