433 (edited by RickB 2012-05-11 11:45:30)

Re: 2024 Major League Baseball season

I dug this up from the rulebook just to be sure because there are variables.

Any relief pitcher can come in and pitch at least three innings EFFECTIVELY and get a save. Here is rule 10.20 from the MLB.com site on June 2nd.

Credit a pitcher with a save when he meets all three of the following conditions: (1) He is the finishing pitcher in a game won by his club; and (2) He is not the winning pitcher; and (3) He qualifies under one of the following conditions: (a) He enters the game with a lead of no more than three runs and pitches for at least one inning; or (b) He enters the game, regardless of the count, with the potential tying run either on base, or at bat, or on deck (that is, the potential tying run is either already on base or is one of the first two batsmen he faces); or (c) He pitches effectively for at least three innings. No more than one save may be credited in each game.

Rick
edit: basically, the saving pitcher must face enough batters to lose the game if they are not put out. Hoffman was maddening by often allowing enough batters to get on to enable the save if he had a big lead. Sometimes that backfired, but not often.


Read more: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_does_a_pi … z1uU9F597P

Free download from Vienna! http://mbsy.co/bNLR
Lots of unique videos of Joe http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwd5vL8fXTw
Buy Joe's merchandise here. http://www.jbonamassa.com/affiliates/id … hp?id=1381

Re: 2024 Major League Baseball season

ahsmith33 wrote:

yeah Pitt really let me down AH (ATL fan) smile , he was on fire for sure and that is impressive. The starting pitcher must go a minimum of 5 complete innings, leaving the game at anytime thereafter with the lead, his team wins the game, and he gets the win. The relief stuff is a little more complicated, I have to ask myself sometimes and will defer to Dawg and Rick to try and explain end game scenarios.

Just to add to this explanation, the starting pitcher is also responsible for anyone he puts on base.
Example: A starting pitcher throws a shut out through 8 2/3 innings, is winning 1-0, walks two guys and is pulled from the game. The relief pitcher comes in and gives up a double and both runs score to end the game...those runs are the responsibility of the starter and he gets the loss.

This can get a little convoluted sometimes. A starting pitcher for a home team could be up 3-0, be pulled at the top of the ninth inning, have the relief pitcher come in and give up 3 runs to tie the score. If the home team scores in the bottom of the ninth to win the game, guess who gets the win? Well, the starter was no longer the pitcher of record once he left the game and the opposition came back to tie the score. Even though he gave up 3 runs, the reliever gets the win.
There was a former relief pitcher in the 1960's named Phil Reagan, who gained the nickname "The Vulture" because of how often he would get wins this way.

"Rock ON & Keep the Faith"

Re: 2024 Major League Baseball season

thanks Bill for that further explanation. woohoo, The Braves are on fiya now sweeping the Cards in sweet St Louey. All NL Central teams are welcome. I want to say that all NL teams have been very gracious in paying respect and honoring Chipper Jones in his last year. His last at bat in St Louis came yesterday, he was given a beautiful framed photo, and a jersey signed by Stan Musial. In Houston they gave him a superb cowboy hat that may well go to his father. Can't wait to get to the Nats and see if we can make any headway against that stingy staff.

As corn through a goose, so are the days of our lives

Re: 2024 Major League Baseball season

Ok, I've got another question: what's with this having one pitcher 'close' the 7th inning, another 'close' the 8th, and yet another come on for the 9th? This seems crazy to me when, for example like last night, the Nat's 8th inning pitcher (Clippard) did a brilliant job and got three outs with maybe 15 pitches, and then has to make way for a guy (Rodriguez) who had a major meltdown the night before. Why?

RIP Iron Man

Rock On and keep the Faith

437 (edited by ahsmith33 2012-05-15 13:07:58)

Re: 2024 Major League Baseball season

good question AH. The teams "closer" is normally the guy that comes on in the ninth to finish the deal. Earlier relievers are the "setup" guys, and it's usually a matter of what batters are coming to the plate in that inning. You may have more of an advantage with a righty-righty matchup versus lefty pitcher against right handed batters. They just look at who is coming up in that half of the inning, and a lot of times it makes sense to switch to another setup guy. Or, that setup guy may have had a lot of success in the past against those particular batters he will face, or that particular team. It's a lot about matchups, and after watching Bobby Cox at Atlanta (for 20 years) leave pitchers in way too long late in the game, it's a total crapshoot sometimes and blows up in your face. They have books, and charts, and all sorts of data on all the hitters, and then go with their gut feeling.

A few years back there was a no hitter where 5 different pitchers contributed, can't remember what team.


Amsterhammer wrote:

Ok, I've got another question: what's with this having one pitcher 'close' the 7th inning, another 'close' the 8th, and yet another come on for the 9th? This seems crazy to me when, for example like last night, the Nat's 8th inning pitcher (Clippard) did a brilliant job and got three outs with maybe 15 pitches, and then has to make way for a guy (Rodriguez) who had a major meltdown the night before. Why?

As corn through a goose, so are the days of our lives

438

Re: 2024 Major League Baseball season

To further enlighten and confuse you George, the amount of work each relief man has had recently has a lot to do with it too. Pitch count is king now and a starter is usually pulled with around 100-110 pitches if he has been effective. There is a theory that the total pitches per season is a limiting factor on arm longevity and injury reduction, especially with young starters. Relievers are rotated in the bullpen to allow the arm to recover since they may be called up on successive games. They usually are good for 20 or 25 pitches per game. There are also long relievers that can come in if a starter is not good on any given night. They are used for 3-5 innings. A very big part of a manager's job is keeping the pitching staff effective and healthy over the grueling length of a season.
Rick

Free download from Vienna! http://mbsy.co/bNLR
Lots of unique videos of Joe http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwd5vL8fXTw
Buy Joe's merchandise here. http://www.jbonamassa.com/affiliates/id … hp?id=1381

Re: 2024 Major League Baseball season

To much $&@*#! Overthinking, IMHO. I agree George, a guy comes in and pitches a perfect 7th inning, nobody gets close to hitting him, and the manager trots out a new pitcher in the eighth...WTF! Pitch counts? Are we that different now? Don't tell me these guys are throwing any harder than Gibson or Marichal! How come guys used to throw 125 or 150 pitches back then, but now they can't go past 90 or 100?
$$$$$$ investments...gotta try to protect your investment, but I'm not sure that pitch count thing works. Guys still get hurt.

"Rock ON & Keep the Faith"

440

Re: 2024 Major League Baseball season

Bill S wrote:

To much $&@*#! Overthinking, IMHO. I agree George, a guy comes in and pitches a perfect 7th inning, nobody gets close to hitting him, and the manager trots out a new pitcher in the eighth...WTF! Pitch counts? Are we that different now? Don't tell me these guys are throwing any harder than Gibson or Marichal! How come guys used to throw 125 or 150 pitches back then, but now they can't go past 90 or 100?
$$$$$$ investments...gotta try to protect your investment, but I'm not sure that pitch count thing works. Guys still get hurt.

Besides the injury stats, there is the thought that most starters arms get tired after 110 or so pitches and there is a loss of velocity as well as control. Hitters in the late innings improve timing as well after seeing the pitcher several times and are more likely to have dialed in the starter unless he has great stuff. Bringing in a fresh arm with a different approach can offset the late inning hitter's advantage to protect a lead. The batters are also shifted around as relievers are brought in and defensive changes/pinch hitter subs can be made with better planning. Great managers are consistent winners for a good reason.

Free download from Vienna! http://mbsy.co/bNLR
Lots of unique videos of Joe http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwd5vL8fXTw
Buy Joe's merchandise here. http://www.jbonamassa.com/affiliates/id … hp?id=1381

Re: 2024 Major League Baseball season

thank you Padres for taking out little Stevie last night. In a bizarre twist, he had an issue with the "hot stuff" balm used to warm up the muscles?? I remember they got me in high school football by spreading some on my jock strap, like fireworks going off in your shorts, NOT fun. lol
Atlanta got to Johnny Cueto of the Reds last night, he had been pitching very well this year coming in to the game with a .093 ERA. Braves bats fixed that and Timmy Hudson had another good outing.

As corn through a goose, so are the days of our lives

442

Re: 2024 Major League Baseball season

Yeah, the Padres are death on ace pitchers, 2 vs Halladay and now Strasburg. Too bad about the rest of them. I guess it is better to have his pants on fire than his arm. lol Rumors floating that Tony Gwynn might head up a group of investors to buy the team. smile
Rick

Free download from Vienna! http://mbsy.co/bNLR
Lots of unique videos of Joe http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwd5vL8fXTw
Buy Joe's merchandise here. http://www.jbonamassa.com/affiliates/id … hp?id=1381

Re: 2024 Major League Baseball season

RickB wrote:
Bill S wrote:

To much $&@*#! Overthinking, IMHO. I agree George, a guy comes in and pitches a perfect 7th inning, nobody gets close to hitting him, and the manager trots out a new pitcher in the eighth...WTF! Pitch counts? Are we that different now? Don't tell me these guys are throwing any harder than Gibson or Marichal! How come guys used to throw 125 or 150 pitches back then, but now they can't go past 90 or 100?
$$$$$$ investments...gotta try to protect your investment, but I'm not sure that pitch count thing works. Guys still get hurt.

Besides the injury stats, there is the thought that most starters arms get tired after 110 or so pitches and there is a loss of velocity as well as control. Hitters in the late innings improve timing as well after seeing the pitcher several times and are more likely to have dialed in the starter unless he has great stuff. Bringing in a fresh arm with a different approach can offset the late inning hitter's advantage to protect a lead. The batters are also shifted around as relievers are brought in and defensive changes/pinch hitter subs can be made with better planning. Great managers are consistent winners for a good reason.

That's worked out well for Ryan Dempster in Chicago...bringing in Kerry Wood and Carlos Marmol. I'm guessing Dempster sees those two in his nightmares.
I'm not saying to leave a guy in when he's gassed, but if a reliever is brought in and nobody is close to even hitting a foul ball off of him, why replace him after an inning?

"Rock ON & Keep the Faith"

Re: 2024 Major League Baseball season

Bill S wrote:

I'm not saying to leave a guy in when he's gassed, but if a reliever is brought in and nobody is close to even hitting a foul ball off of him, why replace him after an inning?

Exactly this was my point.

RIP Iron Man

Rock On and keep the Faith

445

Re: 2024 Major League Baseball season

Amsterhammer wrote:
Bill S wrote:

I'm not saying to leave a guy in when he's gassed, but if a reliever is brought in and nobody is close to even hitting a foul ball off of him, why replace him after an inning?

Exactly this was my point.

To save the arms of the bullpen. Most are not good for more than an inning.

Free download from Vienna! http://mbsy.co/bNLR
Lots of unique videos of Joe http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwd5vL8fXTw
Buy Joe's merchandise here. http://www.jbonamassa.com/affiliates/id … hp?id=1381

Re: 2024 Major League Baseball season

Interleague play is upon us, or at least for some teams. Atlanta goes to the Rays this weekend, next month we have the Yankees, Jays, and O's coming to our house. We drew some tough matchups from the AL east, can I get a reschedule with maybe KC and White Sox? smile

As corn through a goose, so are the days of our lives

Re: 2024 Major League Baseball season

congrats to Brandon Beachy of the Braves with a league leading 1.33 ERA, he had a complete game shutout vs Marlins last night and he drove in a run. The boy is on fire!

As corn through a goose, so are the days of our lives

Re: 2024 Major League Baseball season

I was at the Cubs-White Sox game today. When we arrived at the park, we found out that Kerry Wood had announced that he was retiring. The info we got was that they were going to let Wood pitch another game or two, which seemed odd.
So Wood comes in with one out in the 8th inning, Cubs down 3-2 with a runner on first, strikes out the only batter he faces with a 78 mph change-up right after throwing a 96 mph fastball. The entire infield comes to the mound as they pull Wood, handshakes, hugs and high fives. The runner on first base doffs his cap toward Wood and it appeared that he was getting recognition from the Sox dugout. As he approaches the dugout, his son (who looks like hes 6 or 7) runs into daddy's arms. They walked off to a thunderous standing ovation.
Kerry Wood retired today and it was as an emotional moment as I've ever witnessed in a baseball game. What a great guy...he wanted to finish his career in Chicago and took considerably less money to come here than he could have got elsewhere.
His rookie season was a thing of beauty and (unfortunately), probably his best year.
Thanks for the memories Kerry!

"Rock ON & Keep the Faith"

Re: 2024 Major League Baseball season

Bill S wrote:

I was at the Cubs-White Sox game today. When we arrived at the park, we found out that Kerry Wood had announced that he was retiring. The info we got was that they were going to let Wood pitch another game or two, which seemed odd.
So Wood comes in with one out in the 8th inning, Cubs down 3-2 with a runner on first, strikes out the only batter he faces with a 78 mph change-up right after throwing a 96 mph fastball. The entire infield comes to the mound as they pull Wood, handshakes, hugs and high fives. The runner on first base doffs his cap toward Wood and it appeared that he was getting recognition from the Sox dugout. As he approaches the dugout, his son (who looks like hes 6 or 7) runs into daddy's arms. They walked off to a thunderous standing ovation.
Kerry Wood retired today and it was as an emotional moment as I've ever witnessed in a baseball game. What a great guy...he wanted to finish his career in Chicago and took considerably less money to come here than he could have got elsewhere.
His rookie season was a thing of beauty and (unfortunately), probably his best year.
Thanks for the memories Kerry!

Yeah Bill that put a little lump my throat, I saw the replay on MLB.....that rookie season was so cool....I'm not sure if that's the same year he struck out 20 in a game, seams like it though.....Geez, Ole Shreddy wants to go to a game with you....it's all good....some day, I'm going back to the GREAT city of Chicago smile

Re: 2024 Major League Baseball season

Anyone catch the end of Verlanders gem in Detroit last night.....I was so pulling for him to get that NO NO....he was snappin Uncle Charlies that were unhittable....Dan Plesac said it was a "rolling" hook, I disagree, doesnt matter, he lost the no-hitter sad

Shreddy