- jclark42796
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Re: Joe talks about the use of alternative woods in Gibson guitars
Just seen this on the les paul forums too. I'm fine with this stuff really, but not fine with the prices.
I won't be buying Gibson any time soon and I don't see me buying any in the future either (unless it's off of ebay)
- jclark42796
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Re: Joe talks about the use of alternative woods in Gibson guitars
Jimi_lp wrote:
Just seen this on the les paul forums too. I'm fine with this stuff really, but not fine with the prices.
I won't be buying Gibson any time soon and I don't see me buying any in the future either (unless it's off of ebay)
Yes, it gives me pause when thinking about a purchase.
ES-335 #37
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- DaveWammbarro
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Re: Joe talks about the use of alternative woods in Gibson guitars
That guitar sounds different.
The prices are horrible.
I can't see myself listening to people who Gibson now hold up...(JB+Guitarist Mag etc).
I'm lucky with my guitar now.
I will be lucky with ebay in the future.
No new Gibson for me.
- Devan
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Re: Joe talks about the use of alternative woods in Gibson guitars
Yeah, I am kind of surprised that Gibson is not letting us know more about what they may be doing to move to a more sustainable operation? Either that or *gasp* cut back on production! I've heard that the Gibson factories combined can push out nearly 1000 guitars PER DAY. They build more guitars in one day than they did the entire year of 1956 !
Does the world seriously need that many guitars?
For me personally, I have my JBLP and my '74 LP Deluxe. That's enough Gibsons for me. I am all for getting guitars built by master craftsmen these days, who have access to some amazing old growth woods and who lovingly hand build guitar for (surprisingly) less cost than a Gibson production line item.
I know it is hard for Joe to speak up and get Gibson to come clean on it's sustainable policies, given his endorsement deals with them etc., but I wish more major artists would hold Gibson accountable.
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- AD3THREE
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Re: Joe talks about the use of alternative woods in Gibson guitars
I still hate the fact that EVERY manufacturer in the USA uses Rosewood on some line of guitars and Gibson is still to this day the only company that has gotten their wood seized by the FEDS. If its a crime its a crime no questions about that, but why is the law on applied to some of the companies and not all the companies. If you ask me chasing woods is the least of the american public's worries.
That said I've got on problem with the baked maple. Its about time guitarist stopped looking to the past anyway. Technology has progressed at a incredible rate in the last 60 years of electric guitar, yet other then automatic tuners and maybe MIDI connections we still use the same tech they did more then half a century ago. Pedals change but they still use 1/4 connectors, amps are in all walks of life but most people will agree if you buy a tube amp based on a older design it sounds better then anything new.
I guess you can't reinvent the wheel or guitars.
I think the guitars of today are well over priced. A new guitar shouldn't cost the same as my tax value on my car. I wish people would be open minded enough to look more into used guitars, they are a third less money, play just as good as the day they were sold if not better, and should out live us all. I seriously doubt I'll ever buy a new car, and I know I'll never buy a new guitar again. Try to get your money back on a Les Paul Standard in these times. Not going to happen. I've seen used 59' reissues selling for $2000 less then the $6000 that they asked for when it was new. I've played them, they sound good. Could my Gibson USA's sound just as good? Yes they can and they do. Do they Play as good? Not out of the box I'm sure but after they are setup to your liking yes they play as good as anything. What about vintage guitars? Nothing sound better then the original guitars from the 50's and 60's do they???? Well sorry to burst the dream bubble but they had crap guitars back then too and some really good ones as well. Just because its old or made to look old doesn't mean I want to pay for it the rest of my life.
Having kids now its only practical to either buy used or build my own. So far I've had a lot of success making my dream instruments come to life. Buying parts and doing he work myself is maybe more fun the the playing of the instrument.
- Coach305
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Re: Joe talks about the use of alternative woods in Gibson guitars
Not sure why Joe's video has sparked a thread complaining about prices. The Classic Custom w/baked maple fretboard Joe is playing in that video retails for $1899. That's for a guitar with a nitro finish and Classic '57 humbuckers. All things considered, seems pretty reasonable to me, especially when compared to most of their product line...
Terrance Shuman
New Castle, DE
New Castle, DE
Re: Joe talks about the use of alternative woods in Gibson guitars
Coach305 wrote:
Not sure why Joe's video has sparked a thread complaining about prices. The Classic Custom w/baked maple fretboard Joe is playing in that video retails for $1899. That's for a guitar with a nitro finish and Classic '57 humbuckers. All things considered, seems pretty reasonable to me, especially when compared to most of their product line...
That guitar he's playing isn't the Custom Classic, it's a Custom so probably costs way over $1899. More likely to be nearer $3k than $2k. (I could be wrong, but the custom classic I'm sure only has top binding)
The reason it has sparked such a rant about the prices is that well...their quality has slipped and they're getting worse and weirder. The prices of standards are insane (£2049 here) yet they are chambered, some are 3 piece backs, most likely due to the wood being low quality and weighing an absolute tonne!
As for the nitro, it's really not nitro. It's so full of plasticizer that it's just as bad, if not worse than a poly finish.
The nitro on the back of my les paul has peeled where my belt caught it at the control cavity behind the switch. And I can tell you, the finish is not thin and is very rubbery.
http://media.photobucket.com/image/gibs … ckchip.jpg
That's from an R7. Which is meant to be a better finish than the USA line. So you can imagine how thick the USA lines finishes are.
I might be refinishing my les paul this summer (scotland is far too cold in the winter for nitro to dry) so if/when I remove the finish, I'll be sure to photograph it and post it for you lot.
- DaveWammbarro
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Re: Joe talks about the use of alternative woods in Gibson guitars
Jimi_lp wrote:
Coach305 wrote:Not sure why Joe's video has sparked a thread complaining about prices. The Classic Custom w/baked maple fretboard Joe is playing in that video retails for $1899. That's for a guitar with a nitro finish and Classic '57 humbuckers. All things considered, seems pretty reasonable to me, especially when compared to most of their product line...
That guitar he's playing isn't the Custom Classic, it's a Custom so probably costs way over $1899. More likely to be nearer $3k than $2k. (I could be wrong, but the custom classic I'm sure only has top binding)
The reason it has sparked such a rant about the prices is that well...their quality has slipped and they're getting worse and weirder. The prices of standards are insane (£2049 here) yet they are chambered, some are 3 piece backs, most likely due to the wood being low quality and weighing an absolute tonne!
As for the nitro, it's really not nitro. It's so full of plasticizer that it's just as bad, if not worse than a poly finish.
The nitro on the back of my les paul has peeled where my belt caught it at the control cavity behind the switch. And I can tell you, the finish is not thin and is very rubbery.http://media.photobucket.com/image/gibs … ckchip.jpg
That's from an R7. Which is meant to be a better finish than the USA line. So you can imagine how thick the USA lines finishes are.
I might be refinishing my les paul this summer (scotland is far too cold in the winter for nitro to dry) so if/when I remove the finish, I'll be sure to photograph it and post it for you lot.
I totally agree. Most of the new Gibsons I play are dead...I put that down to increasingly poor wood...and especially the awful finishes. How they can whack a 2k tag on something which is covered in what amounts to melted plastic is far beyond me.
10 2012-02-21 11:48:10 (edited by Coach305 2012-02-21 11:49:17)
- Coach305
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Re: Joe talks about the use of alternative woods in Gibson guitars
Jimi_lp wrote:
Coach305 wrote:Not sure why Joe's video has sparked a thread complaining about prices. The Classic Custom w/baked maple fretboard Joe is playing in that video retails for $1899. That's for a guitar with a nitro finish and Classic '57 humbuckers. All things considered, seems pretty reasonable to me, especially when compared to most of their product line...
That guitar he's playing isn't the Custom Classic, it's a Custom so probably costs way over $1899. More likely to be nearer $3k than $2k. (I could be wrong, but the custom classic I'm sure only has top binding)
Pretty sure it is a Classic Custom. Joe specifically talks about the baked maple fretboard; the fretboards on Customs are ebony. Now, it is possible that they sent him a one-off Custom just to see what he thought about the baked maple fretboard, but that seems unlikely to me. I'm at work right now, so I can't re-view the video (!@#$% firewalls! 
)...
Terrance Shuman
New Castle, DE
New Castle, DE
11 2012-02-21 11:53:51 (edited by macg1 2012-02-21 11:54:21)
Re: Joe talks about the use of alternative woods in Gibson guitars
AD3THREE wrote:
I still hate the fact that EVERY manufacturer in the USA uses Rosewood on some line of guitars and Gibson is still to this day the only company that has gotten their wood seized by the FEDS. If its a crime its a crime no questions about that, but why is the law on applied to some of the companies and not all the companies. If you ask me chasing woods is the least of the american public's worries.
That said I've got on problem with the baked maple. Its about time guitarist stopped looking to the past anyway. Technology has progressed at a incredible rate in the last 60 years of electric guitar, yet other then automatic tuners and maybe MIDI connections we still use the same tech they did more then half a century ago. Pedals change but they still use 1/4 connectors, amps are in all walks of life but most people will agree if you buy a tube amp based on a older design it sounds better then anything new.
I guess you can't reinvent the wheel or guitars.
I think the guitars of today are well over priced. A new guitar shouldn't cost the same as my tax value on my car. I wish people would be open minded enough to look more into used guitars, they are a third less money, play just as good as the day they were sold if not better, and should out live us all. I seriously doubt I'll ever buy a new car, and I know I'll never buy a new guitar again. Try to get your money back on a Les Paul Standard in these times. Not going to happen. I've seen used 59' reissues selling for $2000 less then the $6000 that they asked for when it was new. I've played them, they sound good. Could my Gibson USA's sound just as good? Yes they can and they do. Do they Play as good? Not out of the box I'm sure but after they are setup to your liking yes they play as good as anything. What about vintage guitars? Nothing sound better then the original guitars from the 50's and 60's do they???? Well sorry to burst the dream bubble but they had crap guitars back then too and some really good ones as well. Just because its old or made to look old doesn't mean I want to pay for it the rest of my life.
Having kids now its only practical to either buy used or build my own. So far I've had a lot of success making my dream instruments come to life. Buying parts and doing he work myself is maybe more fun the the playing of the instrument.
It is not the use of rosewood that is criminal. There is a lot of red tape to be crossed, and Gibson conveniently neglected it. That is why they are the only ones (so far) in trouble. As long as you cross all the t's and dot all the i's with government red tape, you can use the exotic woods; wonder why PRS's are so expensive? now you don't have to!
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- AD3THREE
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Re: Joe talks about the use of alternative woods in Gibson guitars
Depends on who's story you believe. Gibson is saying they did that and to this day have yet to hear an exact reason their woods was Seized both last year and in 2008 with the Madigascar boards. Why do you think the Gov't is pushing back on the court case? They got nothing and are trying to keep them from the wood. It more likely this is a political game since all the other manufacturers donated to the democratic races, and Gibson went republican. Unless you got some proof that Gibson lawyers didn't fill out all their paper work, I can only go by what Gibson and the other supports of Gibson are saying.
- dave_5150
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Re: Joe talks about the use of alternative woods in Gibson guitars
It's things like this that make me wish Facebook had a "dislike" button.
I appreciate what Joe is saying ..but baking maple doesn't make it sound like rosewood.
- NPB_EST.1979
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Re: Joe talks about the use of alternative woods in Gibson guitars
Jimi_lp wrote:
That guitar he's playing isn't the Custom Classic, it's a Custom so probably costs way over $1899. More likely to be nearer $3k than $2k. (I could be wrong, but the custom classic I'm sure only has top binding).
I don't think it's a bad price. I also love the squabble on prices. Where are all the tree people? Our trees are going extinct! 
Gibson Les Paul Classic Custom Electric Guitar Gold Top
$1899 from Musicians Friend
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/guitars/ … 1056452328
"Destined to be Collectible".... The feel and tone of Les Paul Classic Custom is enhanced by the baked maple fingerboard, which adds the snappy response of ebony, but retains a warm, traditional medium-brown look like pau ferro.
Features
Handcrafted in Nashville, TN USA
Body: Genuine Mahogany
Top: Carved Maple/ Multi-Ply binding
Neck: Mahogany, White Acrylic Split
Diamond headstock inlay
Fingerboard: Baked Maple (Bound)/
Acrylic White Block inlay
Hardware: Chrome Tune-o-matic ®,
Grover Kidney Tuners
Electronics: Gibson ‘57 Classic™/’57 Classic+™
Controls: 2 Vol/2 Tone, black speed knobs
Case: Gibson Deluxe Hardshell Case
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Ask me about my handwound Great Lakes Guitar Pickups
Since 2010, Bonamassa fans have taken advantage of my JB friend discount = my cost + shipping.
Re: Joe talks about the use of alternative woods in Gibson guitars
AD3THREE wrote:
Depends on who's story you believe. Gibson is saying they did that and to this day have yet to hear an exact reason their woods was Seized both last year and in 2008 with the Madigascar boards. Why do you think the Gov't is pushing back on the court case? They got nothing and are trying to keep them from the wood. It more likely this is a political game since all the other manufacturers donated to the democratic races, and Gibson went republican. Unless you got some proof that Gibson lawyers didn't fill out all their paper work, I can only go by what Gibson and the other supports of Gibson are saying.
sorry man, I must say that whole democrat vs. republican argument is about the silliest thing I have ever heard (i know gibson said it first, so you are not the silly one). The whole "witch-hunt" argument goes a very short one way in the legal system. The reason why it takes so long to build a case has nothing to do with lack of evidence on the prosecution side, but everything to do with the fact that although there will be a punishment, and because a lot of innocents are involved (the factory workers at gibson) that all the legal action must be under utmost scrutiny.
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- Coach305
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Re: Joe talks about the use of alternative woods in Gibson guitars
dave_5150 wrote:
It's things like this that make me wish Facebook had a "dislike" button.
I appreciate what Joe is saying ..but baking maple doesn't make it sound like rosewood.
Again, stuck at work so can't re-watch the video, but I don't remember him saying the baked maple "sounds like rosewood." In fact, I'm pretty sure he noted the tonal difference in his comments (something about the baked maple neck having a little more "bark")...
Terrance Shuman
New Castle, DE
New Castle, DE
Re: Joe talks about the use of alternative woods in Gibson guitars
Coach305 wrote:
dave_5150 wrote:It's things like this that make me wish Facebook had a "dislike" button.
I appreciate what Joe is saying ..but baking maple doesn't make it sound like rosewood.
Again, stuck at work so can't re-watch the video, but I don't remember him saying the baked maple "sounds like rosewood." In fact, I'm pretty sure he noted the tonal difference in his comments (something about the baked maple neck having a little more "bark")...
he did not say that maple sounded like rosewood. actually it seems to me that the guitar on the video is actually just a maple fretboard like the 70's ones and not a baked maple one (which I just played the other day at GC and it looked much darker than the video). As a matter of fact he makes the point that the maple board guits actually "bark" more.
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- helrazr84
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Re: Joe talks about the use of alternative woods in Gibson guitars
I have never heard of baked maple before this video..? Just curious, what if you were to rub in some dark furniture polish on the fretboard- would it absorb and look more like a rosewood board? Someone will probably try and pawn one off like that on craigslist.