Topic: Holding the pick and tension

Hi!

Quick question to the guitarists out there:

Does anyone think that the way you hold the pick (angles, tightness, position in your fingers etc.) effect the tension in  your wrist somehow when playing fast?

The reason I ask is that I started holding it slightly differently and suddenly the tension was gone in my hand

thanks!

Re: Holding the pick and tension

Yes.  I think that not enough emphasis is given to holding the pick when you see 'how to learn' books and videos on the guitar.

I've also found that using a really thick pick has improved my playing a lot, and helped to reduce tension in my shoulder, of all places.

I use the really thick v-picks now because I get less muscle fatigue in my hand.  Some people say these picks have a lot of 'string chirp' which is true, but once again, changing my picking style to try and reduce the chirp means that I am now hitting the strings at more of a 90 degree angle which has improved my picking accuracy and cleanliness too.

JBLP Gold Top #129 - redubbed "#1 in Oz"

3 (edited by Jlowther 2012-01-08 18:10:54)

Re: Holding the pick and tension

Devan wrote:

Yes.  I think that not enough emphasis is given to holding the pick when you see 'how to learn' books and videos on the guitar.

I've also found that using a really thick pick has improved my playing a lot, and helped to reduce tension in my shoulder, of all places.

I use the really thick v-picks now because I get less muscle fatigue in my hand.  Some people say these picks have a lot of 'string chirp' which is true, but once again, changing my picking style to try and reduce the chirp means that I am now hitting the strings at more of a 90 degree angle which has improved my picking accuracy and cleanliness too.

Thanks for the reply! Interesting, do you think there are any other factors involved in me just losing my ability to pick fast on certain days? I can pick fast for weeks at a time then all of a sudden I wake up the next day and my hand and wrist is so tight and my picking is a huge mess - even when I consciously try to relax my hand. I've tried looking at shoulder position, angle of my arm and my wrist, where my wrist is wresting and nothing changes that I can tell even when my picking is full of tension. Maybe it's the way I hold the pick on certain days I don't know..I use a jazz III

Re: Holding the pick and tension

As with most complex skills using hands - it is important to stretch/warm up on a regular basis.

And like any exercise, it is also important not to overdo it.  Remember, if it starts to hurt, then STOP!  Same thing if you have ongoing pain in the wrist or finger joints - take a break and if the pain persists, see a professional physio/doctor.

I took a 15 year break from playing guitar, then took it up with earnestness and was playing for about 2 hours a day.  I soon got really bad pains in the top 2 joints of my left hand fingers.  I actually thought I was getting arthritis.  My technique also started to slip a bit, and I was devastated.

It was only when I went away on a business trip for 7 days and didn't touch guitar for all that time that the pain went away and I was able to enjoy playing again.

I've since learnt from that never to overdo it again.  Also, changing my practice routine so that I was focusing on different things helped.  For instance, I don't just mindlessly do repeating scales faster and faster all the time like I used to.  I now try and work on specific licks and getting some 'feeling' in my playing.  I also make sure my fingers are already warmed up and flexible before trying and bends or vibrato.

I now practice for around 60 to 90 minutes per day.  Sometimes I find that if I take a whole day or two break in my routine, my playing is actually BETTER when I go back to it (once I've warmed up of course).  This fits the concept of most exercising and body building etc. - It is good to work out regularly, but sometimes your body just needs a short break to repair and heal itself.

Best of luck! smile

JBLP Gold Top #129 - redubbed "#1 in Oz"

Re: Holding the pick and tension

Devan wrote:

As with most complex skills using hands - it is important to stretch/warm up on a regular basis.

And like any exercise, it is also important not to overdo it.  Remember, if it starts to hurt, then STOP!  Same thing if you have ongoing pain in the wrist or finger joints - take a break and if the pain persists, see a professional physio/doctor.

I took a 15 year break from playing guitar, then took it up with earnestness and was playing for about 2 hours a day.  I soon got really bad pains in the top 2 joints of my left hand fingers.  I actually thought I was getting arthritis.  My technique also started to slip a bit, and I was devastated.

It was only when I went away on a business trip for 7 days and didn't touch guitar for all that time that the pain went away and I was able to enjoy playing again.

I've since learnt from that never to overdo it again.  Also, changing my practice routine so that I was focusing on different things helped.  For instance, I don't just mindlessly do repeating scales faster and faster all the time like I used to.  I now try and work on specific licks and getting some 'feeling' in my playing.  I also make sure my fingers are already warmed up and flexible before trying and bends or vibrato.

I now practice for around 60 to 90 minutes per day.  Sometimes I find that if I take a whole day or two break in my routine, my playing is actually BETTER when I go back to it (once I've warmed up of course).  This fits the concept of most exercising and body building etc. - It is good to work out regularly, but sometimes your body just needs a short break to repair and heal itself.

Best of luck! smile

Thankyou again Devan. I understand everything you said except I don't know if its a fatigue in my wrist or tiredness because I can do it consistently well for weeks on end then there is a sudden change. Surely if my wrist was getting fatigued my picking would slowly decrease over a period of time? I'll try again tomorrow with my new hold of the pick and see where it gets me

Thanks bud:)

Re: Holding the pick and tension

Picking is a very fine art form.  I have always been a traditional 'alternate picker' and I remember when I tried to learn sweep picking, it absolutely killed my technique and normal picking style.  I had to give up on sweep picking.

I guess it comes down to 'muscle memory' and how your brain gets attuned to a particular picking style.

Do you find that the problem becomes obvious after you have concentrated on just one particular picking style?

I know when I was younger (as you are) it was easier to chop and change picking styles, but now that I am older, my brain is set in it's ways I think, and any NEW picking technique I try tends to mean I get worse at other techniques.

For instance, I try and use just fingers every now and then, and find when I transitions from several days of using a plectrum to using fingers, there is a period of 'stiffness' and re-learning required.  Same if I go back the other way.

Just to be on the safe side though, I'd strongly suggest you talk to a physiotherapist about this issue.  He/She might be able to detect if it was some sort of early stage carpal tunnel syndrome or repetitive stress syndrome.  If that is the case, you REALLY want to catch it early and treat it before any permanent damage can happen...  At the very least, they may be able to show you a routine of stretching exercises that may alleviate the stiffness.

JBLP Gold Top #129 - redubbed "#1 in Oz"

Re: Holding the pick and tension

Devan wrote:

Picking is a very fine art form.  I have always been a traditional 'alternate picker' and I remember when I tried to learn sweep picking, it absolutely killed my technique and normal picking style.  I had to give up on sweep picking.

I guess it comes down to 'muscle memory' and how your brain gets attuned to a particular picking style.

Do you find that the problem becomes obvious after you have concentrated on just one particular picking style?

I know when I was younger (as you are) it was easier to chop and change picking styles, but now that I am older, my brain is set in it's ways I think, and any NEW picking technique I try tends to mean I get worse at other techniques.

For instance, I try and use just fingers every now and then, and find when I transitions from several days of using a plectrum to using fingers, there is a period of 'stiffness' and re-learning required.  Same if I go back the other way.

Just to be on the safe side though, I'd strongly suggest you talk to a physiotherapist about this issue.  He/She might be able to detect if it was some sort of early stage carpal tunnel syndrome or repetitive stress syndrome.  If that is the case, you REALLY want to catch it early and treat it before any permanent damage can happen...  At the very least, they may be able to show you a routine of stretching exercises that may alleviate the stiffness.

My picking style is alternate picking and nothing else really...the weird thing is that when my wrist goes stiff and has a lot of tension...usually a few hours later I pick the guitar up again and try pick fast and it works just as well as before I had the tension so I don't think its a medical related thing. It's always on my mind at school, while watching tv, in bed etc. and I still can't figure it out. If it starts to get more frequent then I shall take your advice on seeing a physiotherapist!

Perhaps it's a psychological thing...

Thanks, Devan!

Re: Holding the pick and tension

Better suited to the Gear section, I think. It'll certainly attract more attention from players there. wink

RIP Iron Man

Rock On and keep the Faith

Re: Holding the pick and tension

Amsterhammer wrote:

Better suited to the Gear section, I think. It'll certainly attract more attention from players there. wink

Oh cool, thanks man!

Re: Holding the pick and tension

Right hand technique is something I've been working on, watching video's about and reading up on... and i must admit that the more poke around the more confused i get but i can say there are a few consistencies in what folks are saying. Some has already been stated or eluded to in this thread.

One is that being overly tense is a big negative. Just like any component of playing, if you are straining you'll tire out and struggle, relaxed but controlled seems to be the idea.

The other thing I've come across is the notion that picking quickly with good articulation is a very specific type of picking and should be treated as such, you should in essence change gears when doing different types of picking, the trick is the transition, balancing the dynamics and making it natural

The thing I'm finding is picking is kind of like working on your golf swing, there are all sorts of concepts and gizmos out there, tough to know what will work for you and what will actually get you to where you want to be... I think i am personally going to have my guitar teacher have a look at what I'm doing, give me some pointers on technique (like angle of pick relative to the string, grip and so on), and try to give me a couple of practical approaches for my level of playing to getting things better.

Re: Holding the pick and tension

havoc41 wrote:

Right hand technique is something I've been working on, watching video's about and reading up on... and i must admit that the more poke around the more confused i get but i can say there are a few consistencies in what folks are saying. Some has already been stated or eluded to in this thread.

One is that being overly tense is a big negative. Just like any component of playing, if you are straining you'll tire out and struggle, relaxed but controlled seems to be the idea.

The other thing I've come across is the notion that picking quickly with good articulation is a very specific type of picking and should be treated as such, you should in essence change gears when doing different types of picking, the trick is the transition, balancing the dynamics and making it natural

The thing I'm finding is picking is kind of like working on your golf swing, there are all sorts of concepts and gizmos out there, tough to know what will work for you and what will actually get you to where you want to be... I think i am personally going to have my guitar teacher have a look at what I'm doing, give me some pointers on technique (like angle of pick relative to the string, grip and so on), and try to give me a couple of practical approaches for my level of playing to getting things better.

Yeah that all makes sense...another thing I've noticed is its beneficial to have your forearm and wrist all lined up in a straight line and use forearm rotation to move up and down the strings

Re: Holding the pick and tension

Interesting timing of this post as I am constantly amazed at my ability to forget things I've learned over and over. Everytime I get in a "rut" - a bad one - you guys know the one - playing bad, everything sounds bad - amp, pedals, fretting hand is useless - like having someones sewn onto your wrist -  I shift my focus to my picking technique. I then discover again and again that I alternate pick to much - and more importantly - incorrectly. I slow things down a bit, get the picking sorted out and BOOM. Night and day. I then stop thinking about technique altogether and just PLAY. I also play standing up a lot, and find when sitting and playing I get some pain in my right shoulder as my arm angle is different. I have long arms so it may just be me...I use Jazz 3's - thanks Joe - massive improvement in my note clarity and speed, and use as light a grip as I can get away with without it turning or flying away on me...

Gits: '03 Gibson Historic R7 Goldtop, '06 Gibson R8 Plaintop, MIJ '62 RI Strat,  and others...
Amps: '99 Marshall 1987x Plexi RI, 1969 Fender Super Reverb

My band: www.meanbones.com