• From: Canterbury
  • Registered: 2010-05-27
  • Posts: 310

Topic: Help with speaker selection?

Usually I would just play whatever speaker comes with the amp, or with the cab, I never gave too much thought into changing it.

However, I've seen loads of people saying that obviously a better speaker would result in better tone. But I have no idea of where to start.

I use a Jet City JCA20H with a 112, with the stock Eminence speaker and the second amp, is a Phaez Sibly (currently on its way). I don't have a second cab for the Phaez yet but I was planning to buy a second JCA112. They are well built and solid in my opinion and I have no complaints about them.

The JCA and Phaez are 20 and 18 watts respectively and each have 8 and 16 ohm speaker outputs, (the Phaez also has a 4 ohm output). The stock speaker is 16 ohm.

How should I narrow my choices? its difficult to tell the variations in each speaker from youtube clips.

  • From: York, PA
  • Registered: 2010-08-27
  • Posts: 1,749

Re: Help with speaker selection?

I've posted this link before.  It will give you somewhat of an idea of how different speakers sound and allow you to discern some similarities and differences among a group of them.

I personally love the celestion g65 12".  To me, they have a good sound will ALL of my amps ranging from Marshalls, Egnater and even a Bugera.  Nice mid tone, and not shrill and good bottom end too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jWK0sa7tlfI

  • From: Canterbury
  • Registered: 2010-05-27
  • Posts: 310

Re: Help with speaker selection?

Oh awesome, thanks man never saw that before. Going to look at it tonight. big_smile

4 Reply by helrazr84 (edited by helrazr84 2011-12-02 15:41:53)

  • From: York, PA
  • Registered: 2010-08-27
  • Posts: 1,749

Re: Help with speaker selection?

Cool.  I too used to just play whatever speakers came in a cab.  Don't split hairs over too many of the speakers, the differences sometimes are subtle and won't show in a mix.  But some differences are pretty drastic!  A lot of people like to do a celestion heritage and a vintage 30 or greenback combination, then mic each cab or speaker.  You'll find something that works!

  • From: North Carolina
  • Registered: 2008-10-26
  • Posts: 2,926

Re: Help with speaker selection?

I know nothing of the speakers your talking about but let me just say the speaker I have in my Blues Jr. is a piece of crap!  It is a Canabis Rex from Eminence.  I wanted a smooth sounding speaker and they suggested this for Jazz.  If smooth = muddy then it nailed it!  For months I was just dealing with it and changing the tone with pedals but recently I got my old speaker cabinet I had at a friends house that had these old organ speakers in it (not sure of the brand)  The are 50 years old and have alnico magnets in them they sounded a million times better then the Canabis Rex.  So with that long story I was going to suggest a alnico magnet type speaker to you. 

Also I'm a little worried that if your Jet City is suggesting a 16 ohm speaker and your dropping down to a 4 ohm speaker it could really put a strain on the Tranny.  Are you using 1 speaker or 2 speakers in your cabinet?  If you are using 2 are you in series or parallel wiring?  In Series you would add the ohms together so 4 ohms + 4 Ohms = 8.  But if you had the cabinet wired in parallel the ohms would be subtracted.  4 ohms - 4 ohms = blown head.  If you are planning on mixing speakers say 16 ohm + 4 Ohms in Parallel you would get 20 ohms very easy on the tranny but would not be very good use of the 20 watts of power you have.  In Series you could drop to 10 ohms which would make the the tranny work harder but you should be able to use 100% of the power amp.  I think you could drop as low as 8 ohms without worries to the Tranny but I wouldn't go much lowwer then that.  4ohms seems dangerous to me.  Sorry for the long reply.

AD3THREE's Website

  • From: Canterbury
  • Registered: 2010-05-27
  • Posts: 310

Re: Help with speaker selection?

AD3THREE wrote:

Also I'm a little worried that if your Jet City is suggesting a 16 ohm speaker and your dropping down to a 4 ohm speaker it could really put a strain on the Tranny.  Are you using 1 speaker or 2 speakers in your cabinet?  If you are using 2 are you in series or parallel wiring?  In Series you would add the ohms together so 4 ohms + 4 Ohms = 8.  But if you had the cabinet wired in parallel the ohms would be subtracted.  4 ohms - 4 ohms = blown head.  If you are planning on mixing speakers say 16 ohm + 4 Ohms in Parallel you would get 20 ohms very easy on the tranny but would not be very good use of the 20 watts of power you have.  In Series you could drop to 10 ohms which would make the the tranny work harder but you should be able to use 100% of the power amp.  I think you could drop as low as 8 ohms without worries to the Tranny but I wouldn't go much lowwer then that.  4ohms seems dangerous to me.  Sorry for the long reply.

Thanks, but I was just mentioning that the JCA20 has outputs for either an 8 or 16 ohm and the Phaez for all three, because I wasn't sure what type of ohm ouputs were common on amplifiers.

  • From: North Carolina
  • Registered: 2008-10-26
  • Posts: 2,926

Re: Help with speaker selection?

Great!  Matching up to the correct Ohms will be the best idea.  Your amp will work at 20 watts if you use the 8 Ohms, and also assuming you are cranking the amp.  When the Ohms drop the power on the amp will drop so if you were planning on 16 Ohms you won't get the full 20 watts but the human ear really can't tell the difference and the wattage I don't think drops off that much.

AD3THREE's Website

  • From: Canterbury
  • Registered: 2010-05-27
  • Posts: 310

Re: Help with speaker selection?

AD3THREE wrote:

Great!  Matching up to the correct Ohms will be the best idea.  Your amp will work at 20 watts if you use the 8 Ohms, and also assuming you are cranking the amp.  When the Ohms drop the power on the amp will drop so if you were planning on 16 Ohms you won't get the full 20 watts but the human ear really can't tell the difference and the wattage I don't think drops off that much.

Oh, thanks for that. I didn't know that and wouldn't have guessed since the stock cab that Jet City sells with the JCA20 is a 16 ohm cab.

  • From: West Sussex
  • Registered: 2011-05-17
  • Posts: 307

Re: Help with speaker selection?

AndeS

If you want to run both cabs together then you need another 16 Ohm and you would then run them in parallel at 8 Ohms for the pair.

You don't 'minus' the ohms for parellel you divide by two and both your amps you say can put out 16 or 8 ohms so this gives you the choice of either cab or both together (you might need a fancy cable for this)

There is no benefit in lower resistance speakers they make different speakers so you can match them up and get back to 4, 8 or 16 ohms to match the amplifier properly.

There is no problem or losses running a amp with a 16 ohm output through a single 16 ohm speaker because the output transformer is tapped so that you match up the ohms properly - in fact this is a good thing to do.

Hope this helps because there are a few technical errors in some of the posts in this thread. Type of speaker is up to you!

  • From: Canterbury
  • Registered: 2010-05-27
  • Posts: 310

Re: Help with speaker selection?

It'll be one amp to one cab.

I've looked at the speakers, so far I've narrowed it down the the G12 H30, the M70, EVM 12L and possible the G12T-75

The others were removed either because I found they lacked sufficient clarity, despite all sounding similar, or they were extremely harsh in terms of the highs.

The EVM, seems to have the most clarity in comparison to the other two.

  • macg1
  • BONAMETAL
  • Offline
  • From: St. Petersburg, FL
  • Registered: 2010-01-21
  • Posts: 1,020

Re: Help with speaker selection?

AD3THREE wrote:

I know nothing of the speakers your talking about but let me just say the speaker I have in my Blues Jr. is a piece of crap!  It is a Canabis Rex from Eminence.  I wanted a smooth sounding speaker and they suggested this for Jazz.  If smooth = muddy then it nailed it!  For months I was just dealing with it and changing the tone with pedals but recently I got my old speaker cabinet I had at a friends house that had these old organ speakers in it (not sure of the brand)  The are 50 years old and have alnico magnets in them they sounded a million times better then the Canabis Rex.  So with that long story I was going to suggest a alnico magnet type speaker to you. 

Also I'm a little worried that if your Jet City is suggesting a 16 ohm speaker and your dropping down to a 4 ohm speaker it could really put a strain on the Tranny.  Are you using 1 speaker or 2 speakers in your cabinet?  If you are using 2 are you in series or parallel wiring?  In Series you would add the ohms together so 4 ohms + 4 Ohms = 8.  But if you had the cabinet wired in parallel the ohms would be subtracted.  4 ohms - 4 ohms = blown head.  If you are planning on mixing speakers say 16 ohm + 4 Ohms in Parallel you would get 20 ohms very easy on the tranny but would not be very good use of the 20 watts of power you have.  In Series you could drop to 10 ohms which would make the the tranny work harder but you should be able to use 100% of the power amp.  I think you could drop as low as 8 ohms without worries to the Tranny but I wouldn't go much lowwer then that.  4ohms seems dangerous to me.  Sorry for the long reply.

one man's excrement is another man's soap.  I personally think the C. Rex is one of the best speakers out there.  I have played it in vintage white face gibsons. DRRI, Budda twinmaster, and it is just an amazing, warm and articulate amp.  Of course it will not be so across the boards and it will not work with some amps and setups. 

AndreS, the question you want to ask is "what tone characteristics am I going for with the second cab?"  Take your time analyzing the EQ gaps your current setup has, then adjust accordingly.  Other things to consider are also how early you want speaker break up, and also if you are going open or closed back cabs.  Think about your pedals, and which guitars you are using.  Most of the time, it is best to get a speaker with a reasonably flat EQ response if you are unsure, that way the amp's tone stack, your guitar and pedals can do the tone shaping.

Amp: Firebird Musical Amplifiers
Guitars:62 LP SG , 02 FB VII, JB FB I, 76 Electra Omega, 64 Firebird V, 73 LPC, 61 Custom Tele, 59 and 60 Melody Maker
Effects: Mythos Chupacabra, Strymon Deco/Flint
  • From: Canterbury
  • Registered: 2010-05-27
  • Posts: 310

Re: Help with speaker selection?

Hmm, I think I would go with closed back based on what I've read.

13 Reply by DougH (edited by DougH 2011-12-03 13:36:34)

  • DougH
  • DougH
  • BONAMETAL
  • Offline
  • From: Toronto, Canada
  • Registered: 2011-04-01
  • Posts: 1,705

Re: Help with speaker selection?

AD3THREE wrote:

wired in parallel the ohms would be subtracted.  4 ohms - 4 ohms = blown head.


***  100% WRONG MATH!!!  ***
(sorry ad3three)

4 ohms in parallel with 4 ohms = 2 ohms.. Not 0 ohms

Still not good on a output transformer but its certainly not a short either.


Also on a tube amp the amp does NOT put out more power on the lower ohms setting like a solid state amp does.

You put a 16ohm speaker on a 16ohm tap and the amp puts out its maximum
you put a 8 ohm speaker on a 8 ohm tap and the amp puts out its maximum
you put a 16ohm speaker on an 8ohm tap and the amp is quieter like an attenuator has been put on the amp.
Tube amp's are bias'd to run at a certain voltage.

you however do not want to put a 4 ohm speaker on the 8 or 16 ohm taps.. that's just a blown output transformer in the making.

Read this PDF.. great pictures for wiring a cab: http://www.loudspeakersplus.com/pdfs/sp … agrams.pdf

I like the Warehouse Guitar Speakers: http://wgs4.com/

Note if you pick a 20w speaker for your 20w tube amp then you'll probably blow the speaker.
you need probably 20% more power rating on the speaker than the amp puts out as a minimum need.
A 60w speaker would work well with a 20w amp..
a 25w green back would be pushed hard and will distort fast and probably would blow the voice coil if the 20w tube amp is pushed into distortion; which would probably put out over 35 watts in distortion volume.

Also the power rating of the speakers always gets added together.
So a 25 watt speaker by its self handles 25 watts
2 x 25 watt speakers will handle 50 watts no matter if its series or parallel
3 x25 = 75 watt rated cab
4 x 25 = 100 watt rated cab

---------------

(If only I had 1% of Joe's guitar talent)
  • Registered: 2011-02-25
  • Posts: 127

Re: Help with speaker selection?

AndreS wrote:

It'll be one amp to one cab.

I've looked at the speakers, so far I've narrowed it down the the G12 H30, the M70, EVM 12L and possible the G12T-75

The others were removed either because I found they lacked sufficient clarity, despite all sounding similar, or they were extremely harsh in terms of the highs.

The EVM, seems to have the most clarity in comparison to the other two.

I don't know about the EVM, but don't buy the others!!! They all have harsher highs.
Celestion Heritage G12-65 is way better. No harsh highs.
I'd take a Vintage 30 over the other ones too.

  • Registered: 2009-01-01
  • Posts: 665

Re: Help with speaker selection?

Try the Scumback M75. A bit pricier perhaps but the best.

  • From: West Sussex
  • Registered: 2011-05-17
  • Posts: 307

Re: Help with speaker selection?

DougH wrote:

4 ohms in parallel with 4 ohms = 2 ohms.. Not 0 ohms

Still not good on a output transformer but its certainly not a short either.


Also on a tube amp the amp does NOT put out more power on the lower ohms setting like a solid state amp does.

You put a 16ohm speaker on a 16ohm tap and the amp puts out its maximum
you put a 8 ohm speaker on a 8 ohm tap and the amp puts out its maximum
you put a 16ohm speaker on an 8ohm tap and the amp is quieter like an attenuator has been put on the amp.
Tube amp's are bias'd to run at a certain voltage.

you however do not want to put a 4 ohm speaker on the 8 or 16 ohm taps.. that's just a blown output transformer in the making.

Note if you pick a 20w speaker for your 20w tube amp then you'll probably blow the speaker.
you need probably 20% more power rating on the speaker than the amp puts out as a minimum need.
A 60w speaker would work well with a 20w amp..
a 25w green back would be pushed hard and will distort fast and probably would blow the voice coil if the 20w tube amp is pushed into distortion; which would probably put out over 35 watts in distortion volume.

Also the power rating of the speakers always gets added together.
So a 25 watt speaker by its self handles 25 watts
2 x 25 watt speakers will handle 50 watts no matter if its series or parallel
3 x25 = 75 watt rated cab
4 x 25 = 100 watt rated cab

Correct.

  • Registered: 2011-02-25
  • Posts: 127

Re: Help with speaker selection?

Bluesbreaker wrote:

Try the Scumback M75. A bit pricier perhaps but the best.

My favorite!! Mine have the large dustcap, which cuts some highs.

  • From: North Carolina
  • Registered: 2008-10-26
  • Posts: 2,926

Re: Help with speaker selection?

Eh sorry guys.  I wired my cabinet up 2 or 3 years ago and haven't done it since.  I'd trust their math.  I was however using car stereo theory with ohms which would be solid state not tube power so I'm wrong there too.  Oh well not the first and won't be the last.  Main thing is have fun and be safe doing it! 

The Canibis Rex however, think was just a poor choice for the Blues Jr. I've modded mine and I liked the way the stock speaker worked with it better.  I also go back to a statement Joe Bonamassa said about Tone tubys speakers "Heimp cones is hippy talk for bad tone" or something like that is what he said.  Anyway I've heard better.  Its a matter of opinion and I was looking for a brighter sound.

AD3THREE's Website