Re: The Football Topic

Lots of chat here about it and German fans think they have got a real rough deal. Lot of early optimism now being distilled with some realism. Great side the Germans though. Won't be easy but I still see them winning the group.

England. Hmm. I don't expect them to have 6 points by the the time they face the Ulraine so it will all hang on that game anyway. Draws against France (maybe) and Sweden (likely) would mean getting a result against the Ukranians at home in front of a very partisan group.

Ukraine could throw a surprise in this group. Brace for disappointment...............

No Hits, No Hype.......................Classic Rock Jan 2012

326 (edited by hansamike 2011-12-05 04:58:42)

Re: The Football Topic

Moved to write something on here to today as a result of catching some B-liga 1 & 2 this last weekend and I wanted to ask regular UK viewers if they are seeing something as prevalent in the British side of the game.

Cheating has always been a distateful development in the modern game, but I thought with the advent of so many cameras at the professional games these days, and with the officials ready to penalise offenders it was somethign that was beginning to fade out - sportsmanship coming back even?

But no. During the week in the Hannover96 euro game there were a couple of clear cheating attempts I saw - and were clearly identified by the cameras at the game. 1 picked up by the ref and 1 not.

But yesterday I saw the highlights of the BLiga 2 game between Dyn. Dresden and FSV Frankfurt. Now Dresden as a club are in the news anyway quite often due to the behaviour of their fans. Another old DDR club with a heavily racsist or far right following. Lots of violence and aggravation, constant crowd disruptions and so on.

But in their game this weekend their were numerous attempts at cheating. 2 players were booked for clear examples of the offence. One, Robert Koch, the leading goalscorer this year for the club had already been booked for faking and trying to get a penalty, when in the middle of the field he inexplicably faked a head injury after what appeared close contact with a FSV player.

Replays showed their was absolutely zero contact and it was a deliberate attempt to get the FSV playmaker sent off. The extent of his playacting almost caused a punch up and as a result he escaped any further punishment when a red card was clearly required.

To me the BL shoud review this footage and take actiona against the club as this is the only way to stamp it out. But my question is why - when the cameras catch EVERY action are the players so stupid to even attempt it?

In the Hannover match the forward had beaten the defender and was through but clearly thought a penalty was a better option than staying on his feet to execute the chance he had. He got a booking for his trouble.

Managers and trainers have to take a stand. Most say in interviews they are against it, so they need to properly instruct their players on the 'cause and effects' of their actions. The message isn't getting through.

Another situation where the officials must have recourse to camera review. My personal view is that cheating like this should be punishable by a red card. If not during the action then following review by the referee at halftime with both managers or after the match.

It may be too late to effect the score of the game during or after the match but a punishment needs to fit this crime.

The blatancy of the cheating I saw this last weekend in the BL was shocking and I see it currently increasing and not decreasing which in the age of full camera coverage I find simply outrageous.

Any views?

No Hits, No Hype.......................Classic Rock Jan 2012

Re: The Football Topic

OK so natural justice prevailed with the miss, but I would have the incident reviewed and either a red or yellow card issed issued retrospectively. Red preferably.

Then a weekly list published naming and shaming the cheats. There really is no hiding place.

At the end of the season the stats can be reviewed and the repeat offenders should be required to attend an FA course on the rules of the game or alternatively a referee's course.

Clubs with a poor record on cheating or discipline on the field should be required to demonstrate they are addressing the problem in their training and player education. A failure to improve should lead to docking of points.

Managers and players are significantly paid in this sport and this should lead to higher standards of play and not lower. I suppose Sepp Blatter would say there really isn't a cheating problem in football but in his utopian head nothing is wrong with the game at all. People like him can't see anything wrong in the game because their snout is so deep in the trough of corruption and self interest.

Back to 'Jumpers for goalposts' I say!

No Hits, No Hype.......................Classic Rock Jan 2012

Re: The Football Topic

It is naive to think that the eventual demise/removal of Blatter will result in some kind of instant improvement. As far as I'm concerned, he should have been shot yesterday, he is a blot on the game and as corrupt as they come.

But, I can't in all conscience blame Blatter for the institutional growth of cheating during recent decades. This appalling trend will only ever be reversed once teams and managers systematically agree to tackle this evil head on. Every time a player dives, he should be fined - and not just some insignificant amount that he'll laugh at, but an amount that is meaningful enough to make him think twice next time. Every blatant dive should be given an automatic yellow card, a red if repeated. FIFA regularly instructs refs to crack down on this or that - it happens for a few high profile games, then is forgotten. I'll believe in a 'cleaner' game if and when I see it, but I don't expect that to be in my lifetime. sad

RIP Iron Man

Rock On and keep the Faith

Re: The Football Topic

- interesting debate.  Blatter is what he is, - he will not change so I think like others do around the game that the work needs to be done with Platini now. - The English FA have done them so much damage by being confrontational, - and continue to do so by appealing against Rooney's ban this week. - He did the crime so needs to take his medicine as do the English FA, - they loose credibility by condoning what he did.

Re cheating: - It is impossible for referees to get it right 100% of the time, - and EVERYBODY around the game, players, parents, TV pundits have to accept that. However what needs to be done is to use post match TV evidence and deal with the player and Club. - The result has to stand, but if a player is found to be diving then it is an automatic ban.

Sadly "gamesmanship" as it is called as some sort of justification is taught to children playing football early on. - I have never coached it, other than them always appealing for a throw in or corner.

We had a situation on Saturday where my boys, (under 13) one of them was through on goal and was tackled right in front of myself and parents in the box, the defender did not get the ball but got the boy but my player tried to stay on his feet and get to the ball before it went out of play. The referee was not able to keep up with the play so did see it clearly enough to give a penalty, - us parents looked at each other and jokingly said that he should have gone down, - but that was it, none of us shouted at the referee or child, - we got on with the game. And that particular player got the player of the game award as him struggling on so as to get to the ball was indicative of his play throughout the match. Unfortunately when he came off the pitch I had to tell him that his dad had to rush away as his brother playing at under 15's had just had his leg broken in 4 places from a tackle. - And there is another debate perhaps that certainly within the English game we teach the boys to be more physical than skilful. My boys have had a very poor season so far as we have always played through out 2 wingers who are both fast small boys, - this year they have been out muscled by teams who only appear to have very large boys.

My YouTube channel with plenty of my Joe's videos dating from 2009 inc his first Hammersmith Odeon ones:
http://www.youtube.com/ian916fun

Re: The Football Topic

Can there be any doubt who will win this year's 'Ballon d'Or', the 'Golden Ball'?

The three candidates are -

Messi
Xavi
C. Ronaldo

I expect Leo to complete his hat-trick! cool

RIP Iron Man

Rock On and keep the Faith

331 (edited by hansamike 2011-12-05 12:31:50)

Re: The Football Topic

Ian916 wrote:

-
We had a situation on Saturday where my boys, (under 13) one of them was through on goal and was tackled right in front of myself and parents in the box, the defender did not get the ball but got the boy but my player tried to stay on his feet and get to the ball before it went out of play. The referee was not able to keep up with the play so did see it clearly enough to give a penalty, - us parents looked at each other and jokingly said that he should have gone down, - but that was it, none of us shouted at the referee or child, - we got on with the game. And that particular player got the player of the game award as him struggling on so as to get to the ball was indicative of his play throughout the match. Unfortunately when he came off the pitch I had to tell him that his dad had to rush away as his brother playing at under 15's had just had his leg broken in 4 places from a tackle. - And there is another debate perhaps that certainly within the English game we teach the boys to be more physical than skilful. My boys have had a very poor season so far as we have always played through out 2 wingers who are both fast small boys, - this year they have been out muscled by teams who only appear to have very large boys.

Certainly good to read that at 'grass roots' it is still reasonably pure. I have to say, although I played at a good standard of regional amateur football earlier on, at the end of my playing days I was turning out for a Saturday side where if a player dived there would probably be a punch up. It just wasn't on to do it. Nobody would have found it acceptable at that level.

If a player got away with it he was likely to be on the end of some extremely rough treatment afterwards. Almost self policing in a way.

Sorry to hear about the young lad's injury. I used to joke that to stop playing and please my missus it would take a broken leg- and it did. Broken in 3 places. 12 weeks in plaster and 6 ops. Never forget the day. Blackburn's Graeme Le Soux broke his the same afternoon at West Ham. Didn't see him in A&E so I presume he got far better treatment!

Thing was, my teamates said it was a nothing tackle albeit from behind. My specialist gave me some info on leg breaks and it should take an enormous pressure to do it. But sometimes the right (or wrong) angle at the right (or wrong) moment and its gone. Never played another high impact sport since that day. I certainly hope the young lad has much better luck. I'd already had a long playing career.

But if he was a victim of something like this then something has to be done. Aaron Hunt's tackle in Munich on Saturday was scandalous. He isn't dirty player as far as I know, but when frustration and a bad attitude get the better of somebody this can be the result. Toni Kroos is a lucky lad........


http://www.101greatgoals.com/gvideos/di … -bremen-1/

MikeH

No Hits, No Hype.......................Classic Rock Jan 2012

Re: The Football Topic

Watched the Bayern/City game yesterday which was live here.

City got the win but I think Europa League is about the standard they deserve judging by last nights performance.

They clearly have some gifted players, Toure, Silva and Aguero but they don't function well. I know they are trouncing the Premier League but I think that says more about the league than City.

Munich played with at least 7 first teamers rested. Neuer, Gomez, Kroos, Larm, Mueller, Robben, Ribery. Although losing 2-0 to two fine goals, Munich were still technically superior albeit without creating too much. For them the job was already done.

City lost possession constantly, then won it back then lost it again. Their overall passing was atrocious, with the final ball and crossing particularly lamentable. There is also a massive disconnect in the style of play (in this game at least) The back 2 were so deep Toure was often just outside his own penalty box to pick the ball up and when he looked for an outlet his fellow midfielders were nowhere.

In the first 45 City often had so much possession but most of it went backwards! Munich ran more and covered the pitch. City were unable to find any outlet and were clueless as how to solve the problem. It was shocking to see how poor a player Barry has become. Going forward OK but defensively it was like watching a supertanker with a busted rudder turning. His distribution was appalling. To think he is an England regular.........

Naples are a much better side and deserve to go on. Maybe City and United can fight it out for the Europa Cup now. Bayern must fancy their chances of reaching the final this year.

No Hits, No Hype.......................Classic Rock Jan 2012

Re: The Football Topic

A major surprise that both Manchester clubs failed to qualify, but they only have themselves to blame. Fergie never took Basel seriously enough and paid the price. Citeh should have won the home game against Napoli.


Although Ajax also have themselves to blame for not having beaten Lyon in either of the games where Ajax were on top but that ended in a draw. Sadly though, there is more to this sorry tale.

First of all - I told anyone who would listen back at the beginning of the season that this Ajax team had no business in the CL because they're simply not good enough. So, no sour grapes from me about them not qualifying for the knock out stage. 


Having said that, rarely in the history of questionable Euro results has there been anything that stinks to high heaven as badly as what transpired in Zagreb (and also in Amsterdam) last night. One can only hope that the entire Dinamo team is fined, suspended, and banned from any Euro competition for at least five years, and the ringleaders of the conspiracy jailed.


What Dinamo Zagreb did is worse than a disgrace, it stinks of bribery and corruption. Thankfully questions are already being asked in some quarters and UEFA will hopefully be forced to at least hold an enquiry, not that I expect a UEFA enquiry to unearth any solid evidence, because it's not in UEFA's interest to expose something that they maintain doesn't exist. This stinks of the Croatian mafia and big time gambling interests. I expect that a few Croatians got very rich tonight. (Latest news is that UEFA will not hold an enquiry unless Ajax lodges a protest, which may still happen this afternoon.)


At the same time, the Portuguese linesman here in Amsterdam disallowed two perfectly good Ajax goals for supposed offside. The replays clearly show that neither decision was even close. Outrageous. Film of the wrong decisions -


http://nos.nl/video/320273-ajaxreal-arb … rs-af.html


Evidence? Lyon scored two goals in their previous 450 minutes of CL play, now they score six in 30 minutes, and then no more? Questions are not only being asked in Holland, as you would expect, but also in Belgium and Spain.


http://www.nrc.nl/nieuws/2011/12/07/aja … n-knipoog/ - see also the embedded film clip here


http://www.sport.es/es/noticias/champio … on-1258574


http://www.hln.be/hln/nl/1307/Champions … Lyon.dhtml


How about this friendly wink and thumbs up by the Zagreb player after the 5-1?


http://twitpic.com/show/iphone/7pz92q


Pictures of the same winking Zagreb player coming out of  a betting shop have emerged today, though it is unclear when these were taken.


http://i44.tinypic.com/zmzghj.jpg

http://i40.tinypic.com/11jb23n.jpg

http://i41.tinypic.com/16bzjis.jpg

RIP Iron Man

Rock On and keep the Faith

Re: The Football Topic

In a way George I do hope it is true.

Then finally UEFA can and should get to grips with this problem. If they fail to act when it is so blatant (if that is the case) then the game will be finally lost once and for all.

Looking at some of the goals it seems almost to be that Zagreb were not trying to defend. Allowing players to just steal through without any attempt at marking. If that is the case then virutally the whole team were involved, certainly the defensive unit.

It seems to stink, and if the organisers of the scam were laying off their bets by getting a linesman to disallow perfectly good goals in A-dam it  would just show how organised the fixers are.

As I say, I hope it CAN be proved. Mind you if there is a scam in international football then Blatter is probably earning a corner on it anyway.

No Hits, No Hype.......................Classic Rock Jan 2012

Re: The Football Topic

Ajax v Man United in Europa.... oh dear let's not fall out over things gentlemen.

My YouTube channel with plenty of my Joe's videos dating from 2009 inc his first Hammersmith Odeon ones:
http://www.youtube.com/ian916fun

Re: The Football Topic

Ian916 wrote:

Ajax v Man United in Europa.... oh dear let's not fall out over things gentlemen.


big_smile


Nah, there'll be no fallout because 'he' won't respond to me. wink In any event, I foresee nothing other than an easy and straightforward win for ManU. There are two 'ifs'.


Firstly, how seriously will Taggart take the tie and the competition, what kind of team will he play? Secondly, Ajax has missed all four 'forwards' in recent games. If they are fit by then, Ajax will be far more dangerous than the toothless tiger they have been of late. Three of the four missing would be automatic choices. I would certainly expect ManU to win if both teams have their strongest possible sides out. The British press cliche about "Dutch giants, Ajax" has been SO not true for more than 15 years!


But yes, very occasionally, surprises do happen. wink

RIP Iron Man

Rock On and keep the Faith

Re: The Football Topic

Barca were magnificent again! To be honest though, the reigning champions of S. America, Santos, were very poor.


All hail Barca, club champions of the world again. cool

RIP Iron Man

Rock On and keep the Faith

Re: The Football Topic

Football ended here last night for the Winter break featuring games with the last 16 of the cup competition here.

Lots of sold out stadiums with the exception of Hoffenheims home game against Augsburg. Upsets? well a couple. Kiel a low division side managed to put out Bundesliga 1 Mainz '05 and 2. Liga Greuther Fuerth overcame 1. Liga Nuernburg.

The games were hotly contested, none more so than Dusseldorf's home defeat to Dortmund on penalties. Dortmund were reduced to 10 men after 34 minutes after a red card and put up stout resistance to everything 2. Liga D-dorf could throw at them.

For me this game was one again marred by D-dorf's cheating. Master of this is Sascha Roesler. How refs are getting wise to him yet is surprising. He is the master of the 'no contact but collapse like your shot' cheat. Got a Dortmund player booked last night. I hope they appeal as it is ruining the game for me here. Fortunately Dortmund got the result on penalties.

Again, on the cheating point Munich's Arjen Robben was completely shown up on Tuesday evening. He was genuinely fouled in the box, but stayed on his feet intially, until realising he would lose the ball, whereupon he threw himself theatrically to the ground. It was so blatant as to be absurd and he got a yellow card for it (even though he was originally impeded).

To his credit, after the game he apologised and said it was a dumb thing to do, and was made purely in the moment. Trouble is, next time I suspect he will just go down after the initial contact when he could choose to saty on his feet.

I really hope at some point the authorities look at this problem. It could be so easy to solve. Retrospective punishment and 'naming and shaming' would see it largely disappear, I am sure of it. Clubs cannot afford to lose players for 3 games for something so dumb.

I been watching events closely in the UK regarding Blackburn's Steve Kean. Can he really have such a good contract? Fact is, without the crowd behind him and the team, an already uphill battle becomes impossible.

As we found with the Hammers last year. Now is the time to change. Rovers are a poor side, and on their performance against Bolton probably worse than the others. However, getting in a new face with some new impetus might just get some results. Staying with Kean is certain relegation. He won't pull them out of it the. The players won't do it for him.

That said the Venky's seem stranger owners with little or know direct interest in the vents taking place. Shame on them.

I saw that Grant's name was in the frame. Now that would be a real mistake. If Hughes would help them out - take him. Or Curbishley. Both have the necessary experience to make a fight of it. They only need to win at home and it would be enough.

I deplore the abuse Kean is getting, but he was never wanted by the fans, doesn't have the nous or experience and for the good of the club should go. The thinking is he won't as he won't get a pay-off, but as someone online commented he would probably have grounds considering the amount of 'abuse in the workplace' he is getting.

I don't know the guy but the results speak for themselves. 7 wins in 38 games is no record. Rovers need a new face and quick. Might not do the trick but hindsight is a painful reminder of 'what might have been, or not'.

No Hits, No Hype.......................Classic Rock Jan 2012

Re: The Football Topic

What a suprise, Colin Wanker (anag) replaced by Mark Hughes at QPR.

But my reason for posting was to congratulate Leo Messi on his unique hat-trick of Ballons d'Or. Saying he's now got three golden balls doesn't sound nearly as classy, huh. big_smile

More football comments soon......

RIP Iron Man

Rock On and keep the Faith

Re: The Football Topic

Yep, I screwed up Brack...sorry, my bad sad

Shreddy

Re: The Football Topic

sounds like a Stoke City tactic so no harm leaving it up in this thread!

Spurs make up their game in hand tonight, - COYS!!!

FA cup....oh dear, - even the ref conspires to make more people hate Man Utd.. Was it a sending off?

My YouTube channel with plenty of my Joe's videos dating from 2009 inc his first Hammersmith Odeon ones:
http://www.youtube.com/ian916fun

Re: The Football Topic

Ian916 wrote:

FA cup....oh dear, - even the ref conspires to make more people hate Man Utd.. Was it a sending off?

According to me, and to all the pundits on Dutch tv - never in a million years. An utterly disgraceful decision that ruined the game.

And as for Taggart receiving a special award from the most corrupt administrator that world football has ever seen....... roll

RIP Iron Man

Rock On and keep the Faith