• Registered: 2010-09-30
  • Posts: 163

Topic: Which Plexi to Build for Joe/EJ/Cream tones?

I've decided on building a Marshall Plexi style amp. As this is my first build, I've decided to use the bill of materials and detailed instructions available from the Metro Amps site (they no longer offer kits). This gives me the choice of building a 1969 era 50w or 100w Lead or Bass spec amp. I'm new to this, so am not comfortable deviating from the recipe too much. =-) 

My question... 

Which amp would be the best choice for getting that "Joe or Eric Johnson playing Live Cream-era Clapton" tones? Hopefully this makes sense? When Joe gets his Slowhand on, he gets this thick, throaty, mid-gain bluesy sound that is so inspiring to me.

I have other amps, but no Marshalls. Was planning on buying, but decided on building for the added learning experience.

So my question is 100w or 50w?

Lead or Bass spec?

From what I heard of StratPaulGuy's Metro build, it sounds very nice. Would love to hear it demoed without pedals etc... Maybe just Strat and Les Paul straight in.

Would love to hear Joe's recommendation!

Thanks!
-Matt

  • From: Santa Barbara, CA
  • Registered: 2011-09-02
  • Posts: 110

Re: Which Plexi to Build for Joe/EJ/Cream tones?

Go for a 1987 Plexi 100 watt clone if you can. Joe uses a 1987 Marshall Jubilee for Slowhand tunes. I'd imagine they would be similar. But every amp is different.

  • From: North Carolina
  • Registered: 2008-10-26
  • Posts: 2,926

Re: Which Plexi to Build for Joe/EJ/Cream tones?

No a Jubilee and a plexi sound different.  Plexi amps work off of the concept of non master volume so to distort your going to have to crank it until it hurts.  The Jubilee is a master volume controlled amp but joe runs it wide open.  Joe has said the Jubilee is the greatest preamp circuit marshall has ever built.  Joe uses this amp on EVERYTHING!  But he pairs it up with other amps to complement his tone with the Jubilee.
If your wanting Cream sounds Clapton used a Super Plexi Lead 100 watt head wide open.  If it was me and I wanted that thick tone with no pedals I'd go for the 50 watt amp because your still going to have to crank it to distort it.  Plus unless you gig at some big open places these amps are really overkill for a jam in the local bar.  That being said nothing comes close head room to a 100 watt amp so if your a pedal user you'll love it.  If your not look for a power attenuator to cut the volume back or do like Joe and use a plexi glass sheild in front of your amp.

In BCC Joe used a Marshall Bass amp to get the Paul Kossoff Free sound.  Gives it a much darker tone then the plexi offers.  Also I've heard a lot of people say that Plexi amps start off bright and darken over time when pushed a lot.

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  • From: Ridgeland, MS
  • Registered: 2009-08-12
  • Posts: 1,248

Re: Which Plexi to Build for Joe/EJ/Cream tones?

jo2011 wrote:

Go for a 1987 Plexi 100 watt clone if you can. Joe uses a 1987 Marshall Jubilee for Slowhand tunes. I'd imagine they would be similar. But every amp is different.

The 1987 is a 50W amp. The 1959 model is the 100W version. It is not too hard to change between the Bass or Lead specs on those amps (changing the V1 split cathode value and adding/eliminating a bright cap). The Super Bass is circuit is a little cleaner and has a bit more low-end.

I think that Clapton used JTM 45/100 and '67 JMP (hardly any difference between SL and SB circuits in those).
My pref. is the 100W Super Lead with a Y cable (George can sell you one) into both High Channels. 50 and 100W Plexi amps are LOUD. To me, the 100W has more balls. Good luck.

  • From: West Sussex
  • Registered: 2011-05-17
  • Posts: 307

Re: Which Plexi to Build for Joe/EJ/Cream tones?

You don't mention the context of where this amp will be played and that is important .

It is also worth noting that if you play the same guitar / amp / cable / pedal as someone else (normally famous) that often you may not sound anything like them and a different amp may get you personally closer than the exact equipment Joe uses - even if it was Joe's exact rig.

I have a low watt hand wired head and cab and I sound very different on it to my work mate if I hand him my guitar with no other changes.  It plays much cleaner for him than for me at the same volume and much darker and growly for me.

I would try and play the options and then make your choice based on your ears.

  • Registered: 2010-09-30
  • Posts: 163

Re: Which Plexi to Build for Joe/EJ/Cream tones?

wharris wrote:

The 1987 is a 50W amp. The 1959 model is the 100W version. It is not too hard to change between the Bass or Lead specs on those amps (changing the V1 split cathode value and adding/eliminating a bright cap). The Super Bass is circuit is a little cleaner and has a bit more low-end.

I think that Clapton used JTM 45/100 and '67 JMP (hardly any difference between SL and SB circuits in those).
My pref. is the 100W Super Lead with a Y cable (George can sell you one) into both High Channels. 50 and 100W Plexi amps are LOUD. To me, the 100W has more balls. Good luck.

Thanks! This seems to reinforce what I've come to understand. I think what I'm missing is really having the experience of actually hearing/playing through these amps and it's a hard thing to ask others to explain in a way that really conveys the differences.

To get a better handle on the difference between a 50w and 100w power section, I did a bit of experimenting with my Lone Star and Les Paul today. I evaluated the difference between tones with the amp set at both 50w and 100w (adjusting volume so that apparent sound level was the same). I did this at various volumes and finally with the channel masters and output dimed to simulate a cranked NMV amp (GLORIOUS sound here, BTW!!!--LOUD, though!!!). In all instances, I preferred the sound of the 100w setting. More low end and lower mid girth. A bigger, muscular sound. More punch and dynamics. As you might expect, it just sounded like a bigger amp.

Now, I know that this is quite a different thing than actually comparing a JTM50 vs a Super Lead, but I think it may have helped to convey some differences (as well as knock the dust of the furniture).

I'll definitely need to attenuate.  wink

7 Reply by Zen Guitar (edited by Zen Guitar 2011-10-07 16:12:37)

  • Registered: 2010-09-30
  • Posts: 163

Re: Which Plexi to Build for Joe/EJ/Cream tones?

Chrisuk wrote:

You don't mention the context of where this amp will be played and that is important .

It is also worth noting that if you play the same guitar / amp / cable / pedal as someone else (normally famous) that often you may not sound anything like them and a different amp may get you personally closer than the exact equipment Joe uses - even if it was Joe's exact rig.

I have a low watt hand wired head and cab and I sound very different on it to my work mate if I hand him my guitar with no other changes.  It plays much cleaner for him than for me at the same volume and much darker and growly for me.

I would try and play the options and then make your choice based on your ears.

You bring up some good points...

This amp will be used both at gigs and at home (I plan on attenuating for either situation and understand the compromises of extreme attenuation). Depending on the situation, I may use it by itself or in a multi amp rig (I have a variety of amps... Ones that I would consider pairing with this would be Mesa Lone Star, BFSR, or a Bludotone Ojai which is on order).

I'm definitely not expecting to sound like Joe or EJ or EC... We all have different hands, different phrasing, etc, and I admire each of these guys immensely. I am very comfortable in my playing, but of course always trying to improve. wink I just use this reference for the tones that I am after so that others will understand kind of what I'm looking for. I think a lot of us here on the JB forum have a love of some similar sounds, so I just wanted to reach out to some kindred spirits.  smile

I agree that it's always better to play an amp and use one's own ears, but unfortunately, it's been difficult to find examples of Plexis to play locally, let alone have a few examples to contrast. I've gone through as many YouTube clips, etc, as I can find (although, as you'd expect, there are a lot of bad ones to weed through and a lot of ones in a completely different context--the VH tones, etc, that others might seek out a Plexi for).

Months ago, I had settled on a Germino Lead 55LV (basically a '68 era JMP50 Lead Spec with switchable rectifier, to give some added JTM50 flavor options), but life got in the way, then I fell in love with a Bludotone (Dumble style amp), so funds went that way instead. Now, I thought it would be a great experience to try my hand at building as well as scratching the Plexi itch--two birds, so to speak.

Thanks for everyone's help!

Cheers,
-Matt

  • From: Ridgeland, MS
  • Registered: 2009-08-12
  • Posts: 1,248

Re: Which Plexi to Build for Joe/EJ/Cream tones?

Germino makes some fine amps...

  • From: West Sussex
  • Registered: 2011-05-17
  • Posts: 307

Re: Which Plexi to Build for Joe/EJ/Cream tones?

I would love to have the skills to build an amp.  cool

Good luck. And I am sure that if what you want is a plexi sound rather than to sound like someone else you will get what you want and can't really go wrong.

  • Registered: 2010-09-30
  • Posts: 163

Re: Which Plexi to Build for Joe/EJ/Cream tones?

Chrisuk wrote:

I would love to have the skills to build an amp.  cool

It sounds fun! I've never done it, but I guess there's always a first for everything. George made the directions from his past amp kits available through the Wiki on his Metro Amps site, so that is a big help. The directions seem very good and there are lots of photos for reference. The cool part is that lots of guys are out there that have gone before me and have experimented with various tweaks, etc, so my hope is that over time I'll be able to glean some of that wisdom and learn to tweak my amp to taste.

I Good luck. And I am sure that if what you want is a plexi sound rather than to sound like someone else you will get what you want and can't really go wrong.

Thanks! There are just so many different flavors of Plexi that it can be tough to know which to chase without prior experience with these amps. As the directions that I intend to use are only available for a couple models, it narrows things a bit, but I'm just trying to make sure I know which I'd prefer before laying out a lot of cash and investing a lot of time. I know myself and how picky my ears are, which is why I'm trying to take my time and figure that out as best I can ahead of time. lol

  • RickB
  • RickB
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  • From: San Diego
  • Registered: 2009-10-30
  • Posts: 12,198

Re: Which Plexi to Build for Joe/EJ/Cream tones?

Don't be afraid to tackle a build. The one needed skill is easily learned, soldering. Pick up an online guide and practice until you get a clean shiny joint. Always make a good twisted mechanical connection before soldering. Get a good iron with variable temperature and a nice sponge to wipe the iron tip. The rest is just nuts and bolts. You'll have immense satisfaction playing something you built yourself.
Rick

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  • From: West Sussex
  • Registered: 2011-05-17
  • Posts: 307

Re: Which Plexi to Build for Joe/EJ/Cream tones?

Zen Guitar wrote:

It sounds fun! I've never done it, but I guess there's always a first for everything. George made the directions from his past amp kits available through the Wiki on his Metro Amps site, so that is a big help. The directions seem very good and there are lots of photos for reference. The cool part is that lots of guys are out there that have gone before me and have experimented with various tweaks, etc, so my hope is that over time I'll be able to glean some of that wisdom and learn to tweak my amp to taste.


There are just so many different flavors of Plexi that it can be tough to know which to chase without prior experience with these amps. As the directions that I intend to use are only available for a couple models, it narrows things a bit, but I'm just trying to make sure I know which I'd prefer before laying out a lot of cash and investing a lot of time. I know myself and how picky my ears are, which is why I'm trying to take my time and figure that out as best I can ahead of time. lol

A friend of mine, Lyndsay, who is a great luther and does a lot of guitar builds from scratch built his own Princeton clone - he did this as part of a class as he freely admits that he needed guidance all of the way - he describes it as self assembled because he says that he didn't really know what he was doing.

When I had my tube amp built, by Lydsay's cousin in the end, we spent a lot of time talking about speakers as this has a very big impact on the final sound.  I went for a british alnico speakermade by tayden even though that is not the conventional choice for a marshall voiced amp but at house volumes it works brilliantly.

I do think you can get carried away with trying to replicate a specific player's sound though - if you have good gear put together sympathetically and it suits you you will sound good - that is the bottom line.