1 Topic by twistingcrow (edited by twistingcrow 2011-08-15 11:46:52)

  • Registered: 2008-10-27
  • Posts: 176

Topic: Please help me with my dual rig...

Hi!

Joe made me wanna try a dual amp rig (I don't hold that against you Joe, it's another world of tone, big thanks to you!). So I have a Marshall 18w Tremolo and a Fender Tweed Deluxe. Both amps are heads which have their dedicated EVM12L in a 2X12 cab.

The problem is that I just can't figure how to dial these amps when I play both at the same time: first I thought I would use the Marshall for the lows and highs and the Fender for the mids, but I've just played the tweed deluxe and its lows and highs are out of this world as well! You wouldn't believe the lows I'm getting out of this small box, it's amazing.

So what would you guys do? Which amp does what? Any tips on setups on both amps?

Then there will be the question of which amp gets the reverb and which amp gets the delay, especially since none of them has an effects loop...

Thank you guys, the dual amp rig will play its very first gig this Saturday! And thank you Joe if you show up on this topic!  wink

  • From: Detroit
  • Registered: 2006-06-02
  • Posts: 5,807

Re: Please help me with my dual rig...

There is a couple ways to do this...

Strategy 1
fender: cleans only
both clean fender + overdrivin Marshall
Marshall: heavy only

Strategy 2:
both full time: fender (bright) + Marshall (dark) with effects going to both equally

Strategy 3:
both full time: Fender (clean with all effects including gain) + marshall (clean with a small bit of grit + a hair of delay ONLY)

My vote is for #3, because it isolates your effects through one amp, while the other is still fairly clean... and the marshalls slight delay wont make it sound too dry.

I did #3 this with a Sovtek Mig50 (Fendery) and a JTM 45 clone or a JCM 800 50w .... worked great.

- Nic from Detroit... posting on JB's Forum since 6-2-2006
Ask me about my handwound Great Lakes Guitar Pickups
Since 2010, Bonamassa fans have taken advantage of my JB friend discount = my cost + shipping. cool
  • Registered: 2011-05-19
  • Posts: 113

Re: Please help me with my dual rig...

I would just try to dial them both in when I'm in a band setting. Get them to sound good together. Can't really do any more at home. You can always change settings from time to time, that will keep you from getting bored with the tone.

  • From: North Carolina
  • Registered: 2008-10-26
  • Posts: 2,926

Re: Please help me with my dual rig...

I've got a guy I jam with all the time that uses a Peavey classic 410 and a Marshall JCM 600 together.  I haven't had much luck with running 2 amps and can only offer this.  If your not used to using 2 amps at once and think you might a/b/y 2 amps switching around and blending them together don't do it at a gig.  My friend does this all the time, he'll practice with either one or the other and when it comes time for a gig he'll get his feet mixed up or his buttons mixed up and it sounds horrible.  I can't tell you how many shows we've blown because he was using 2 amps mixed together and wanted to turn one or the other off for a sound ended up switching to the wrong amp or the wrong channel or hitting the wrong effect!  Please do yourself a favor and make sure you practice before you go to the show with this setup.

AD3THREE's Website

  • Registered: 2011-05-19
  • Posts: 113

Re: Please help me with my dual rig...

AD3THREE wrote:

I've got a guy I jam with all the time that uses a Peavey classic 410 and a Marshall JCM 600 together.  I haven't had much luck with running 2 amps and can only offer this.  If your not used to using 2 amps at once and think you might a/b/y 2 amps switching around and blending them together don't do it at a gig.  My friend does this all the time, he'll practice with either one or the other and when it comes time for a gig he'll get his feet mixed up or his buttons mixed up and it sounds horrible.  I can't tell you how many shows we've blown because he was using 2 amps mixed together and wanted to turn one or the other off for a sound ended up switching to the wrong amp or the wrong channel or hitting the wrong effect!  Please do yourself a favor and make sure you practice before you go to the show with this setup.

I have never thought of it this way. Thanks for the heads up. I had wanted a dual amp rig as well. I thought it was fairly easy to do since Joe makes it look so.

I guess it does need practice to get it to work. I'm actually looking at revisiting my live rig as well.

  • From: Ridgeland, MS
  • Registered: 2009-08-12
  • Posts: 1,248

Re: Please help me with my dual rig...

It can also be cool to run differing amounts of delay (i.e. 500ms to one, ~350ms to the other) simultaneously. That's assuming you run both heads at the same time. I would probably put the reverb on the clean amp.

  • From: Detroit
  • Registered: 2006-06-02
  • Posts: 5,807

Re: Please help me with my dual rig...

dalandan wrote:
AD3THREE wrote:

I can't tell you how many shows we've blown because he was using 2 amps mixed together and wanted to turn one or the other off for a sound ended up switching to the wrong amp or the wrong channel or hitting the wrong effect!  Please do yourself a favor and make sure you practice before you go to the show with this setup.

I have never thought of it this way. Thanks for the heads up. I had wanted a dual amp rig as well. I thought it was fairly easy to do since Joe makes it look so.

I guess it does need practice to get it to work. I'm actually looking at revisiting my live rig as well.

This is why if I use two amps,  I prefer one amp constantly on - constantly clean (maybe with delay) so you don't have to worry about it. I think this is how Joe uses his Silver Jubilee... it's always on. At that point you can have the other amp on or off... and effects going though that amp as well.

- Nic from Detroit... posting on JB's Forum since 6-2-2006
Ask me about my handwound Great Lakes Guitar Pickups
Since 2010, Bonamassa fans have taken advantage of my JB friend discount = my cost + shipping. cool
  • Registered: 2010-02-01
  • Posts: 175

Re: Please help me with my dual rig...

I can't get a decent sound out of a multi amp rig at all ..probably not greatly constructive in a thread titled help me with my dual rig ..but at least supportive in that I feel your pain

I tried pairing a nice Bogner 6L6 Alchemist head with my Ceriatone Express hoing to give me 4 variations through the Bogner channels and boosts with the Ceriatone as my Marshall always on sound ..but I and couldn't get a sound that worked better than the Ceriatone on it's own for me so mister Bogner went on Ebay

  • From: York, PA
  • Registered: 2010-08-27
  • Posts: 1,749

Re: Please help me with my dual rig...

I don't know if this will help, but when I do it, I start with 1 amp and an overdrive running.  I try and get a good smooth distortion tone, but not too heavy distortion.  Usually treble a little less than half, mids around noon, and higher on the bass.  You want it to sound good, almost like you don't need a second amp.  (But when you bring in the 2nd amp, you'll hear whats missing..)

Set 2nd amp EQ all at noon, less on the bass.  I then usually just strum an 'A' chord, let it ring and slowly bring the volume up on the 2nd amp until they sound about even.  Then while playing same chord again, and listening to the two together, I slightly adjust the EQ on the 2nd amp to accentuate the mids a bit.  I try to keep the 2nd amp's bass low while boosting it's top end and mids.

If I'm not happy, I start again with amp 1 by itself and try a slightly different base tone.  My only goal with the 2nd amp is to fill in the gap that the 1st amp's tone is missing.  The key is getting a GOOD starting tone.  The 2nd amp is merely just for blending.  Don't get hung up on effects until you are happy with your sound.  Then introduce them into the mix.

  • Registered: 2009-01-01
  • Posts: 665

Re: Please help me with my dual rig...

dave_5150 wrote:

but I and couldn't get a sound that worked better than the Ceriatone on it's own for me

big_smile
Nik rules!  cool

  • Registered: 2008-10-27
  • Posts: 176

Re: Please help me with my dual rig...

Thanks a lot guys. I'm not afraid of stomping on the wrong button of my switcher. It's a Lehle Dual SGoS, so you can't really do anything wrong with it, awesome pedal...
Thanks again, I think I'll try Helraz's tips first!

  • From: York, PA
  • Registered: 2010-08-27
  • Posts: 1,749

Re: Please help me with my dual rig...

twistingcrow wrote:

Thanks a lot guys. I'm not afraid of stomping on the wrong button of my switcher. It's a Lehle Dual SGoS, so you can't really do anything wrong with it, awesome pedal...
Thanks again, I think I'll try Helraz's tips first!

Cool man!  Just remember to think of both amps as ONE tone.  If you set up each one individually to your liking, and then try them both together, you''ll be playing a back and forth game all day long- and you'll never win.

I'd say 90% of your sound should be from your main amp.  In other words, if you were to turn off the second amp, you should still be comfortable playing the rest of the gig with just your main amp.

If you're using an OD pedal, I'd suggest going thru it into BOTH amps to start and then find your sound.  My medium size dual rig consists of an Egnater tweaker head, with some reverb for my main smooth distortion sound and then a Class 5 head ran dry with the mids and treb bumped up a bit.  I just use a delay over both but I keep it's volume low.

  • From: Detroit
  • Registered: 2006-06-02
  • Posts: 5,807

Re: Please help me with my dual rig...

helrazr84 wrote:

My medium size dual rig consists of an Egnater tweaker head, with some reverb for my main smooth distortion sound and then a Class 5 head ran dry with the mids and treb bumped up a bit.  I just use a delay over both but I keep it's volume low.

ooh tasty!  cool

- Nic from Detroit... posting on JB's Forum since 6-2-2006
Ask me about my handwound Great Lakes Guitar Pickups
Since 2010, Bonamassa fans have taken advantage of my JB friend discount = my cost + shipping. cool
  • Registered: 2008-10-27
  • Posts: 176

Re: Please help me with my dual rig...

helrazr84 wrote:
twistingcrow wrote:

Thanks a lot guys. I'm not afraid of stomping on the wrong button of my switcher. It's a Lehle Dual SGoS, so you can't really do anything wrong with it, awesome pedal...
Thanks again, I think I'll try Helraz's tips first!

Cool man!  Just remember to think of both amps as ONE tone.  If you set up each one individually to your liking, and then try them both together, you''ll be playing a back and forth game all day long- and you'll never win.

I'd say 90% of your sound should be from your main amp.  In other words, if you were to turn off the second amp, you should still be comfortable playing the rest of the gig with just your main amp.

If you're using an OD pedal, I'd suggest going thru it into BOTH amps to start and then find your sound.  My medium size dual rig consists of an Egnater tweaker head, with some reverb for my main smooth distortion sound and then a Class 5 head ran dry with the mids and treb bumped up a bit.  I just use a delay over both but I keep it's volume low.


Sweet... I'll report on the tone I got from my dual rig after my gig tomorrow... I think I found a nice setting, the 5E3 actually provides mids and bass, the 18w provides mids and treble. Plus I plug into the tremolo channel of the 18w and the tremolo effect does add some body to the overall tone. With just the 18w on it's a little too tremolo-ey but with both amps it's gorgeous. I'll be playing both all the time... As I'll have plenty of time to set up tomorrow before playing I'll bring on my RV-5 and my DD-3 and I'll see if I add those to the rig...
Anyway, thanks again!

  • From: York, PA
  • Registered: 2010-08-27
  • Posts: 1,749

Re: Please help me with my dual rig...

NPB_EST.1979 wrote:
helrazr84 wrote:

My medium size dual rig consists of an Egnater tweaker head, with some reverb for my main smooth distortion sound and then a Class 5 head ran dry with the mids and treb bumped up a bit.  I just use a delay over both but I keep it's volume low.

ooh tasty!  cool

Thanks man!  I run 2 marhshall 1936 cabs with no logos, turned vertically like your Forte' cab with the smalls heads on top.  It's honestly quite loud!

  • Registered: 2007-11-04
  • Posts: 404

Re: Please help me with my dual rig...

I run two amps at the same time.  I use a Vox hw AC15 and a Fender Vibrolux.  I set them both to sound good individually. I try to use them for what they are good for. But really i just set the Vox so it sounds good then I set the Fender to be about the same volume.  The fender has more headroom so it sounds cleaner.  I use pedals for overdrive and if the gig is outside or louder I'll get OD from the Vox also. 

I let the differences in the amps compliment each other.  Works well for me.

Good luck.

  • From: Cambridge
  • Registered: 2011-01-15
  • Posts: 912

Re: Please help me with my dual rig...

my effects chain that (i think) sounds pretty darn good

guitar > wah > A/B box > EQ > fuzz > blackstar overdrive > ts808 > marshall dsl 401
                                           > reverb > chorus > delay > VOX AD30VT

Jonny L

Videos of my playing: http://www.youtube.com/user/JonnyLowtherMusic
  • Registered: 2008-10-27
  • Posts: 176

Re: Please help me with my dual rig...

Hi.
I'm back for a little feedback on my dual rig. This is what I had:

Strat or Hamer Talladega Pro > Wha > Fulltone FD2 > Lehle Dual SGoS > Tuner
                                                                                                               > Boss RV-5 > Tweed Deluxe 5E3
                                                                                                               > Boss DD-3 > 18w Marshall

So, I am very very happy with the sound I got from this simple setup. It had the grind of the Marshall and the chime and roundness (and grind) of the 5E3. I used both amps at all times. The reverb and DD-3 were sometimes switched off as they were not always needed and also because the tremolo effect provided by the 18w already adds the needed body to the sound. What I particularly like about this setup is that both amps being small amps, as far as wattage is concerned, I can easily crank them even in small venues without killing anybody. I don't need an attenuator or a blanket or shield or whatever anymore... I had the tweed at 11/12 and the Marshall at 8/10!!!

The only flaw or con about this setup is that the headroom is small (but I never use strictly-speaking clean sounds) and that you have to be very careful with the volume knob on the guitars. At 10 it's a solo sound, at 8 a rhythm sound and at 6 you're not loud enough for anything...  That's very different from the 100w I had with which I could go down to 2/10 and still sound tremendous... So I'd say using this kind of setup is even more subtle... BUT it does sound great and I really appreciate to be able to crank these little beasts!

Thank you guys!