1 Topic by havoc41 (edited by havoc41 2011-04-21 10:32:09)

  • From: NH - USA
  • Registered: 2010-11-08
  • Posts: 149

Topic: Topwrapping a Les Paul

Hello Everyone,

Been reading about topwrapping a Les Paul... there seems to be some debate on how topwrapping effects tone, angles of strings vs pressure on the bridge, more string contact on the tail piece, more or less sustain and so on. From what I'm reading, the tone component seems to be pretty subjective, or at the very least guitar specific...

From what i understand the JB Custom Shop Les Paul's came topwrapped and i saw a GC interview where Mr. Bonamassa indicated he does this so that he can run 11's but they feel like 10's.

Also wondering about the ware and tear. I'm sure the strings going over the top of the tail piece dulls the finish but what about the way the strings create torque on the tail piece and subsequently the mounting bolts? With topwrapping the torque seems like it would have more rotation to it, does this even matter?

So what do you think.... pro's and con's, personal experiences, step up tricks?  I'd be very interested if folks thoughts on topwrapping, thinking about doing it on my R9

Thanks

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  • From: Canterbury
  • Registered: 2010-05-27
  • Posts: 310

Re: Topwrapping a Les Paul

I'm not sure what you mean about torque, but from what I have read on the topic, it suggests that if you do not have dropped your tailpiecce to the body, then topwrapping may cause the surrounding wood around the tailpiece bushings to become a little crushed and the tailpiece may lead forward a little. Simple solution...drop the tailpiece.

I've played 10s both topwrapped and normal and when I switched to 11s topwrapped, the difference in playability was hard to detect. It made a big difference.

3 Reply by dknight16 (edited by dknight16 2011-04-21 11:14:23)

  • Registered: 2006-05-08
  • Posts: 1,996

Re: Topwrapping a Les Paul

I have not top wrapped any of my LPs (yet anyway).  But the strings obviously angle up to the bridge on a normally strung guitar.  So maybe a little lifting force on the front occurs.  Top wrapping obviously changes the angle of the strings and pulls on the back.  Lowering the stop bar would get the strings on a deeper angle than a non-lowered bridge (obviously not as deep as regular), but the issue seems to be changing the lifting force from the front to the back.  I suppose it might raise leverage a bit, but I can't see either causing a problem unless you have loose stop bar studs.  All it does is make the string angle between the stop bar and the bridge less.  It's hard to imagine this would be a durability problem except for marring the polished surface.

I need to at least do this on my Epi JB LP to make it authentic.  But Joe played it a bit when I had it signed so I don't really want to change the strings.  We're talking JB DNA folks . . .

Gibson 60th Anniversary 1959 Les Paul Reissue, Gibson LP Standard Faded CSB, Gibson Gary Moore LP Standard, Epi Joe Bonamassa GT LP, Epi Zakk Wylde LP, Dean Michael Schenker Flying V, Jackson Randy Rhoads V, ESP/LTD George Lynch Kamikaze, EVH Striped Series R/B/W, Fender/Squire John 5 Telecaster, Fender Joe Strummer Relic Telecaster
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Re: Topwrapping a Les Paul

My R8 is top wrapped and it feels and plays awesome mate! I think its a bit pointless if you dont screw the tailpiece down though, your strings could pop straight out of those saddles otherwise!
Just try it and see what you think, I was convinced when I saw Joe doing it, mind you if I saw him drinking rattlesnake venom I'd probably give that a go too!  big_smile

  • From: Detroit
  • Registered: 2006-06-02
  • Posts: 5,807

Re: Topwrapping a Les Paul

The flathead screw posts usually fit the tailpiece a little loose. I think by torque you mean string-pull on the tailpiece?
Topwrapping is sort of a twist than a pull on the tailpiece... so from the side (looking down from post to post) you'd see the front of the tailpiece slightly lower and teh back where the strings come out slightly higher. To prevent this, I use TonePros locking studs whenever possible, but I still have stock things on my vintage Les Pauls. I still don't really notice any difference tone or string pressure-wise.

The main reason I do it is because I like the tailpiece tight to the body. Stringing it up normally makes the high E and other strings bottom out on the edge of the bridge before it goes to the adjustable bridge piece. I don't want it to hit right there so top-wrapping allows the string to clear without it touching.

Long story short, if I can get away without topwrapping, I don't see a need. I just tighten the tailpiece and string up regularly as long as the strings aren't bottoming out on the bridge.

- Nic from Detroit... posting on JB's Forum since 6-2-2006
Ask me about my handwound Great Lakes Guitar Pickups
Since 2010, Bonamassa fans have taken advantage of my JB friend discount = my cost + shipping. cool

6 Reply by havoc41 (edited by havoc41 2011-04-21 12:38:30)

  • From: NH - USA
  • Registered: 2010-11-08
  • Posts: 149

Re: Topwrapping a Les Paul

sted wrote:

I think its a bit pointless if you dont screw the tailpiece down though, your strings could pop straight out of those saddles otherwise!

Please forgive my inexperience around top wrapping but this is one of the things i'm not clear on... likely just getting caught up in the way people are stating things but do you mean lower the tail piece mounting studs as low as they will go, so the tail piece is nice and tight to the body of the guitar, or do you have to do something more drastic. Are you taking about putting new holes in the guitar?

AndreS wrote:

I'm not sure what you mean about torque

It's likely a subtle different and therefore a non-factor but i'm taking about how the force of the string tension on the tail piece. I would think that by top wrapping, because the strings are going through the tail piece "backwards"  and over the top, the string tension would actually twist the tail piece differently.

In essence (if you were right handed and looking down at the guitar while playing it) a top wrapped setup would create a fair amount more counter clockwise torque on the tail piece than a standard set up. This would in turn put more pressure at the top of the mounting studs, creating a stronger levering action over all.

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  • From: Detroit
  • Registered: 2006-06-02
  • Posts: 5,807

Re: Topwrapping a Les Paul

yeah havoc, see my ealier post.

Bigsby tremolos have a wraparound thing, so it can't be bad.
Yes, you're right - it will twist a little, but there's not good or bad from that.

- Nic from Detroit... posting on JB's Forum since 6-2-2006
Ask me about my handwound Great Lakes Guitar Pickups
Since 2010, Bonamassa fans have taken advantage of my JB friend discount = my cost + shipping. cool
  • Registered: 2010-12-06
  • Posts: 122

Re: Topwrapping a Les Paul

Gibson has made loads of LP and SG Jr's and Specials as well as the earlier '54 and '55 LP's and their reissues with wrap around bridge/tailpiece9(s) with the same studs without a problem.  You guys have nothing to worry about.

  • From: N.Wales, UK
  • Registered: 2009-03-06
  • Posts: 2,183

Re: Topwrapping a Les Paul

All plus points on my Gibson. Would never go back to standard again.

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Re: Topwrapping a Les Paul

havoc41 wrote:

Please forgive my inexperience around top wrapping but this is one of the things i'm not clear on... likely just getting caught up in the way people are stating things but do you mean lower the tail piece mounting studs as low as they will go, so the tail piece is nice and tight to the body of the guitar, or do you have to do something more drastic. Are you taking about putting new holes in the guitar?

No new holes mate!! By wrapping over the top you naturally decrease the break angle over saddles, if your tailpiece is too hight there is a danger you could pop out of the saddle on a three tone bend!  tongue
I think the accepted theory is that screwing the tailpiece doen to the body when top wrapping increases the transferance to the body and ths to the pickups, I cant say Ive tried this theory out nor am I planning to, I did it, it feels and sounds great so I'll keep doing it!  smile

  • Registered: 2007-11-04
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Re: Topwrapping a Les Paul

Just make sure the tailpiece studs is all the way down... and top wrap the strings.  Try it out and see what you think. Its not complicated.