Topic: Mic or plug in

Some how I quit a blues rock band at the end of December and now got enlisted to join a folk band that plays nothing but anything we can get our hands on.  We are not good at all but thats besides the point we only practiced once.  Anyway we all have our local connections to play some places and it looks like I'm going to play a few gigs next month.  We had a practice and I was mic'ed up with a shure sm57.  I struggled with it and they gave me a cheap vocal mic that worked better.  So moving forward I was thinking I need to find out what I want to do mic or use a sound hole pickup.  If mic'ed I'm thinking I need a condenser mic or something that is more directional then the straight on SM57 mic.  I bought a Duncan Performer Maverick sound hole pickup on ebay but I haven't tried it (It was used and $10 what did I have to lose) Anybody got an opinion on that or a suggestion?  I don't want to put a preamp or a Piezo pickup under the saddle because the guitar sounds really good with nothing in it.  BTW I am thinking I want a Mic more then a pickup for the fact that I'm going to pick back up on Banjo, and Mandolin on a few tunes just to be different.  Already have 3 guitars in the band so I want to do other things to open us up.  We have a Bass player, and my best friend who is really my brother from another mother is going to play a djembe.  We are going for like a Jimmy Page Robert Plant Unledded vibe.

2 (edited by JohnTB 2011-01-20 13:43:28)

Re: Mic or plug in

I've always quite liked using a sm58 between fret board and sound hole hate plugging my acoustic in sounds great unplugged and a Mic seems to keep that character my only experience of condensers live was feedback but I didn't do the sound so dunno what the prob was.

Btw I also left my blues band at Christmas, was hoping to goto uni but UK fees have rocketed so I'm stuck now and regretting it didn't know there was this much time in a week to do nowt in lol.

3 (edited by Rocket 2011-01-20 16:10:28)

Re: Mic or plug in

Try a Beyer TGX47?  Tighter directional characteristic and deeper sound, get it up close or further back (stepping in or stepping "out" ) and / or turned up/down at the mixer (easily done and not much to go wrong). Condenser or sound hole transducer......I don't think is what you are aiming for.

Rock On & Keep the Faith,
Rocket

"He still doesn't charge for mistakes! wink"
http://jbonamassa.com/tour-dates/
"Everybody wants ta get inta the act!"
“Now, this isn’t your ordinary party crowd, here.  I mean, there are professionals in here.”

Re: Mic or plug in

Mic'ing in the studio is fine and prefered.  But the studio environment is controlled and quiet.  Having a live mic on a stage where most likely the audience volume is louder than the guitar could be less than ideal.  You're going to pick up a lot of ambient noise.

The best thing to do is..if your guitar had electronics...is to, along with the internal electronics is to get a soundhole conderser mic or a soundhole pickup.  wiring the two independently to mix the two pickups shouldn't be a big deal.  On my Takamine withe CT-1 (cool tube) pick up, I also run a soundhole pickup.  The electronics on the guitar allow to to blend the two to my liking.  also, an outboard acoustic pre-amp is nice allowing you get some extra gain and EQ before going to the console.

Hope this helps.  I always found getting a great acoustic tone live was a lot harder than getting an electric tone.

Re: Mic or plug in

Mic'ing on stage gives feedback issues, and you can't move around a whole lot.

I like the new Fishman stuff that has the piezo, plus the mic inside the hollow body.

- Nic from Detroit... posting on JB's Forum since 6-2-2006
Ask me about my handwound Great Lakes Guitar Pickups
Since 2010, Bonamassa fans have taken advantage of my JB friend discount = my cost + shipping. cool

6 (edited by Rocket 2011-01-20 22:40:13)

Re: Mic or plug in

NPB_EST.1979 wrote:

Mic'ing on stage gives feedback issues, and you can't move around a whole lot.

I like the new Fishman stuff that has the piezo, plus the mic inside the hollow body.

A super-cardioid gives good gain w/o feedback. He said he didn't want piezo, which is a good choice for less noise of course, and with a mic inside a good call. But he also might want a banjo and mandolin for the same gig.   One mic can do a decent job for all 3 IMO.  Given the number of musicians mentioned already on stage, moving around doesn't seem like a requirement anyway.

Rock ON & Keep the Faith,
Rocket

Did I mention cheap?

"He still doesn't charge for mistakes! wink"
http://jbonamassa.com/tour-dates/
"Everybody wants ta get inta the act!"
“Now, this isn’t your ordinary party crowd, here.  I mean, there are professionals in here.”

Re: Mic or plug in

Ok so I had a practice today and the cheap sound hole pickup sounded pretty good.  We kind of just goofed around with it and a mic together, just the pickup, and just the mic.  I think the pickup works best for the guitar and seeing how I haven't owned a Banjo or a mandilin in 7 years I think for now I'll stick to guitar its just cheaper.  And if everything goes like it did today I won't have to worry about anything but showing my face again in public.  Can't be good when everyone involved isn't giving 100%, i'd be happy with 50% at this point.  Honestly you can't expect things to go good if you don't try to learn the songs before you even show up to practice.

Re: Mic or plug in

AD3THREE wrote:

Ok so I had a practice today and the cheap sound hole pickup sounded pretty good.  We kind of just goofed around with it and a mic together, just the pickup, and just the mic.  I think the pickup works best for the guitar and seeing how I haven't owned a Banjo or a mandilin in 7 years I think for now I'll stick to guitar its just cheaper.  And if everything goes like it did today I won't have to worry about anything but showing my face again in public.  Can't be good when everyone involved isn't giving 100%, i'd be happy with 50% at this point.  Honestly you can't expect things to go good if you don't try to learn the songs before you even show up to practice.

Man, I love reading your posts!!!  lol  Maybe there's a Green Hornet mask special down at the Wally Mart regarding that worrisome showing your face again in public the way the ahem, practicing is been goin'!  roll

Rock ON & Keep the Faith,
Rocket

"He still doesn't charge for mistakes! wink"
http://jbonamassa.com/tour-dates/
"Everybody wants ta get inta the act!"
“Now, this isn’t your ordinary party crowd, here.  I mean, there are professionals in here.”

Re: Mic or plug in

Well I have to joke to keep for pissing my friend off.  He's serious about guitar and commited to playing practices but when it comes to getting practice at home...  He's always said he gets his practice at practice.  He says he's too busy at home to practice with kids and all, but I've got 3 and he's got 1 and another on the way.  Oh and did I mention that he thinks smoking pot makes him play better?  I've heard it first hand folks and drugs do NOT make you play better!

10 (edited by Rocket 2011-01-23 16:17:03)

Re: Mic or plug in

Absolutely correct, drugs do not "make" or "help" you play better.  Additionally, even if they, and this obviously includes liquid drugs, i.e. containing any alcohol, even IF they make you THINK you play better, it just is not the case or six pack! To show you how long the misconception surrounding marijuana and musicianship quality goes, going back to before most were born, World Book encyclopedia, a real encyclopedia of note, had in it's entry for marijuana a sentence that stated EXACTLY that! Almost word for word-Some musicians believe marijuana helps them to perform better, but there is no merit to it.
Now, even if any substance achieves a perception to the player of better musicianship, it is absolutely not attributable to said "enhancer" if they are "on"!  Study that phrase kids, it may save your career...maybe your life. Do I believe one, or moreover, EVERYONE should play stone cold sober???!!! Absolutely not!!! But you might try it if you never have. What comes across is your REAL musicianship...in my semi-qualifried opinion...

Rock On & Keep the Faith,
Rocket

"He still doesn't charge for mistakes! wink"
http://jbonamassa.com/tour-dates/
"Everybody wants ta get inta the act!"
“Now, this isn’t your ordinary party crowd, here.  I mean, there are professionals in here.”

Re: Mic or plug in

I couldn't have said it better myself!

Rocket wrote:

Absolutely correct, drugs do not "make" or "help" you play better.  Additionally, even if they, and this obviously includes liquid drugs, i.e. containing any alcohol, even IF they make you THINK you play better, it just is not the case or six pack! To show you how long the misconception surrounding marijuana and musicianship quality goes, going back to before most were born, World Book encyclopedia, a real encyclopedia of note, had in it's entry for marijuana a sentence that stated EXACTLY that! Almost word for word-Some musicians believe marijuana helps them to perform better, but there is no merit to it.
Now, even if any substance achieves a perception to the player of better musicianship, it is absolutely not attributable to said "enhancer" if they are "on"!  Study that phrase kids, it may save your career...maybe your life. Do I believe one, or moreover, EVERYONE should play stone cold sober???!!! Absolutely not!!! But you might try it if you never have. What comes across is your REAL musicianship...in my semi-qualifried opinion...

Rock On & Keep the Faith,
Rocket

Re: Mic or plug in

If you can't get people working on songs at home then your band is going no where fast, its to hard and frustrating to try and learn songs at practice unless your practicing 3 or 4 days a week. Which if you have a family your not. You might want to look for a band that everyone is on the same page.

Re: Mic or plug in

Big E wrote:

If you can't get people working on songs at home then your band is going no where fast, its to hard and frustrating to try and learn songs at practice unless your practicing 3 or 4 days a week. Which if you have a family your not. You might want to look for a band that everyone is on the same page.

Not trying to hijack this thread off it's intended topic, but a singular "Wow" practice can inspire the practical practice mode, and it certainly doesn't have to be home alone driven. Tons of "great" at home can be totally useless, mundane, and, off centralized at group practice.  Wow at group combination(s) are more needed than home schooling and that can breed some serious, thoughtful, progressive, and, most important, stimulating as far as possibilities and gratifying at the gut level.

Back on topic, "sounds" like the cheap sound hole pickup is the future unless, ah, the above type of inspiration makes you think in a multi-instrumentality state of mind once again.

Rock On & Keep the Faith,
Rocket

"He still doesn't charge for mistakes! wink"
http://jbonamassa.com/tour-dates/
"Everybody wants ta get inta the act!"
“Now, this isn’t your ordinary party crowd, here.  I mean, there are professionals in here.”

Re: Mic or plug in

Yes the pickup will work fine for what ever it is I'm trying to do.  As far as the practice goes I totally agree we are going nowhere fast.  Funny thing is when we started this thing it was just for fun sometimes at work.  Then someone suggested we plug in and get loud and it turned into a rock band.  We practiced way too much for my schedule and I quit after our drummer had a falling out with us.  So the rest of the guys wanted to do this acoustic thing so they could still play out.  We hadn't played together since September of last year.  This guy I'm talking about hasn't touched a guitar since our last gig!  Now they want to do this acoustic thing to play out still with some of our old set and a host of new songs since we don't really solo as much with acoustics.  Funny thing is I'm more then happy sitting around playing guitar at the house on the sofa with a couple of people there or nobody.  Its when I go to practices and play "Brown Eyed Girl" for 45 minutes then switch to a song we know like "Simple Man" and end up having to practice that for 45 minutes that really burns me out.  Whats sad is I can be a perfectionist at times, but I've checked my ego on this because I know people don't practice like I try to do and we still can't get simple stuff.  I can't even figure out why they bring out the mics and pa for practice, I mean we are playing acoustic guitars why plug in?  Sorry really just a bad rant going on here.  Bands really suck I think Robert Johnson had it right play 2 guitar parts and sing.  If your not happy with the band its yourself to blame.

Re: Mic or plug in

You are the voice of reason going against voices of treason!  Don't blame yourself.  Maybe you have to be more assertive and since you can check the ego, assuming a leadership
role, even making concrete demands, can lead to the high road to happiness despite bloodletting and downsides during the ascent.  And if a band imploded, if you weren't happy before this, you should end on an "at least I (we, if applicable) tried"! Keep goin'.

Rock On & Keep the Faith,
Rocket

"He still doesn't charge for mistakes! wink"
http://jbonamassa.com/tour-dates/
"Everybody wants ta get inta the act!"
“Now, this isn’t your ordinary party crowd, here.  I mean, there are professionals in here.”

Re: Mic or plug in

Strangely I haven't considered this as a band since it started.  I will sit up and play for the comfort of just playing.  So 2 to 4 hours nightly since I switch from mainly electric to now only acoustic.  I hate my singing voice but maybe now is the time to just do my own thing and fade out of this mess.  Thanks for the pep talk!