Topic: What's Up with the Sound Joe?

It seems like there has been sound/mix issues at Joe's last 2 shows in VA and NC...Hard to believe given that Joe is a perfectionist in the technical arena...Anybody know what's up?...New equipment?...Hope it is all under control for our show in Columbus next Saturday...I've got 6 newbies going with Sharon and I...Strange that I haven't heard any of these types of concerns in the past?...

It's a new dawn, it's a new day, it's a new life for me...and, I'm feelin good

2 (edited by srxman2001 2010-11-21 11:57:11)

Re: What's Up with the Sound Joe?

It's been hit or miss with me.  I've had 2 experiences with bad sound out of the 10 or so shows I've seen.  Last nights dpac show was one of them.  I'm no soundman but I would think 4th row center should have good sound.  I know the JB show at the Ohio Theater front row center sounded 1000 times better.  Must be the venue?

Doug

Doug

Re: What's Up with the Sound Joe?

I am taking a couple of Joe B. virgins to the show in Greenville and hope the sound issue is resolved.  Two of the three shows we have attended have been great, one was iffy on the sound.  The room can for sure be a challenge to even the best technician. But some techs are their own worst enemies.  Bring your "A" game buddy!

Re: What's Up with the Sound Joe?

The Other Joe B. wrote:

It seems like there has been sound/mix issues at Joe's last 2 shows in VA and NC...Hard to believe given that Joe is a perfectionist in the technical arena...Anybody know what's up?...New equipment?...Hope it is all under control for our show in Columbus next Saturday...I've got 6 newbies going with Sharon and I...Strange that I haven't heard any of these types of concerns in the past?...

So you were at those shows Joe, or are you passing on someone else's opinion? What was up or thumbs down from your or anonymous' point of cue?!

Rock On & Keep the Faith,
Rocket

"He still doesn't charge for mistakes! wink"
http://jbonamassa.com/tour-dates/
"Everybody wants ta get inta the act!"
“Now, this isn’t your ordinary party crowd, here.  I mean, there are professionals in here.”

Re: What's Up with the Sound Joe?

Rocket wrote:
The Other Joe B. wrote:

It seems like there has been sound/mix issues at Joe's last 2 shows in VA and NC...Hard to believe given that Joe is a perfectionist in the technical arena...Anybody know what's up?...New equipment?...Hope it is all under control for our show in Columbus next Saturday...I've got 6 newbies going with Sharon and I...Strange that I haven't heard any of these types of concerns in the past?...

So you were at those shows Joe, or are you passing on someone else's opinion? What was up or thumbs down from your or anonymous' point of cue?!

Rock On & Keep the Faith,
Rocket

Rocket,

I just noticed a couple of recent posts...I'll see for myself this coming Saturday when we see Joe In Columbus, GA..

It's a new dawn, it's a new day, it's a new life for me...and, I'm feelin good

6 (edited by Rocket 2010-11-21 21:10:37)

Re: What's Up with the Sound Joe?

The Other Joe B. wrote:
Rocket wrote:
The Other Joe B. wrote:

It seems like there has been sound/mix issues at Joe's last 2 shows in VA and NC...Hard to believe given that Joe is a perfectionist in the technical arena...Anybody know what's up?...New equipment?...Hope it is all under control for our show in Columbus next Saturday...I've got 6 newbies going with Sharon and I...Strange that I haven't heard any of these types of concerns in the past?...

So you were at those shows Joe, or are you passing on someone else's opinion? What was up or thumbs down from your or anonymous' point of cue?!

Rock On & Keep the Faith,
Rocket

Rocket,

I just noticed a couple of recent posts...I'll see for myself this coming Saturday when we see Joe In Columbus, GA..

Yeah I see them now Other Joe B. Sorry, it is just yours was the one bumped to the top...
I've been looking, but in addition to the negatives I found this also, with just a passing glance at all the recent responses to reviews..
"Really nice theatre and the sound was good."(David A.) And "The DPAC (Durham Performing Arts Center) Durham NC show was a packed house ....
Excellent acoustics and sound quality" (from a first time poster no less, thank-you )

Rock On & Keep the Faith,
Rocket

"He still doesn't charge for mistakes! wink"
http://jbonamassa.com/tour-dates/
"Everybody wants ta get inta the act!"
“Now, this isn’t your ordinary party crowd, here.  I mean, there are professionals in here.”

7 (edited by srxman2001 2010-11-21 21:28:11)

Re: What's Up with the Sound Joe?

Rocket wrote:
The Other Joe B. wrote:
Rocket wrote:

So you were at those shows Joe, or are you passing on someone else's opinion? What was up or thumbs down from your or anonymous' point of cue?!

Rock On & Keep the Faith,
Rocket

Rocket,

I just noticed a couple of recent posts...I'll see for myself this coming Saturday when we see Joe In Columbus, GA..

Yeah I see them now Other Joe B. Sorry, it is just yours was the one bumped to the top...
I've been looking, but in addition to the negatives I found this also, with just a passing glance at all the recent responses to reviews..
"Really nice theatre and the sound was good."(David A.) And "The DPAC (Durham Performing Arts Center) Durham NC show was a packed house ....
Excellent acoustics and sound quality" (from a first time poster no less, thank-you )

Rock On & Keep the Faith,
Rocket

I am guessing the sound quality was much better towards the back of the DPAC.  I did notice when we walked into the theater from the back that the bass from the the pre show music was very strong and you could feel it in your chest.  Once we got to our 4th row center seats, that chest thumping feel wasnt there.  Im pretty sure the front row big dollar seats were in the dead zone.  Bogie's sound from the stage was good but everything else sounded like it was coming from the back of the theater.  I consider myself to be very critical when it comes to sound quality so it may have been fine to others. Oh well,  well see what Vegas brings.   

Doug

Doug

8 (edited by Rocket 2010-11-21 21:41:00)

Re: What's Up with the Sound Joe?

srxman2001 wrote:

It's been hit or miss with me.  I've had 2 experiences with bad sound out of the 10 or so shows I've seen.  Last nights dpac show was one of them.  I'm no soundman but I would think 4th row center should have good sound.  I know the JB show at the Ohio Theater front row center sounded 1000 times better.  Must be the venue?

Doug

1,000 times better?! Sounds (pardon the pun) sketchy to me! big_smile  Anyway, not discounting how it was perceived by you, but as a note to those traveling over 500 miles to a show, be aware that road noise (whether you have music or conversation going all the time) can affect your ability to hear things "clearly" as they are soon after leaving the highways.  Even though the frequency is mostly (including much of high revving engines) below hearing thresholds of many, it has an ability to physically and psychologically affect sound perception, especially if there is not proper rest.  If you are over 30 also....it can be substantially worse.  Ever notice when you get off a freeway you have to turn the music down often???  The volume is the same level it was, but you cannot take it.  It could affect the band & crew too, but shouldn't be as prevalent on a bus, even from long rides (although rest is utterly important, knackered ain't no fun  wink ).

Maybe this wasn't your case Doug, but it can apply sometimes for anyone's information.

Rock On & Keep the Faith,
Rocket

"He still doesn't charge for mistakes! wink"
http://jbonamassa.com/tour-dates/
"Everybody wants ta get inta the act!"
“Now, this isn’t your ordinary party crowd, here.  I mean, there are professionals in here.”

Re: What's Up with the Sound Joe?

Rocket wrote:
srxman2001 wrote:

It's been hit or miss with me.  I've had 2 experiences with bad sound out of the 10 or so shows I've seen.  Last nights dpac show was one of them.  I'm no soundman but I would think 4th row center should have good sound.  I know the JB show at the Ohio Theater front row center sounded 1000 times better.  Must be the venue?

Doug

1,000 times better?! Sounds (pardon the pun) sketchy to me! big_smile  Anyway, not discounting how it was perceived by you, but as a note to those traveling over 500 miles to a show, be aware that road noise (whether you have music or conversation going all the time) can affect your ability to hear things "clearly" as they are soon after leaving the highways.  Even though the frequency is mostly (including much of high revving engines) below hearing thresholds of many, it has an ability to physically and psychologically affect sound perception, especially if there is not proper rest.  If you are over 30 also....it can be substantially worse.  Ever notice when you get off a freeway you have to turn the music down often???  The volume is the same level it was, but you cannot take it.  It could affect the band & crew too, but shouldn't be as prevalent on a bus, even from long rides (although rest is utterly important, knackered ain't no fun  wink ).

Maybe this wasn't your case Doug, but it can apply sometimes for anyone's information.

Rock On & Keep the Faith,
Rocket

Rocket-
Maybe it was only 500 times better but you get the point. tongue   I dont think it was traveling that affected my perception although the two shows that IMO the sound quality was the worst were the two shows I traveled a long distance to get to (Fort Wayne and Durham).  Although I did travel to Baltimore and Chicago and they sounded fine.  If traveling causes hearing difficulty, I wont hear a thing when I travel 2000 miles to Vegas to see him in Feb!!!

Im the type of person who wants Joes voice and guitar to stand out.  In your face, loud and clear!!!  I dont want to have to struggle to hear him play.  From my seat, for the most part (Woke Up Dreaming and solo stuff without the band being the exception), "It" wasn't there for me last night.  My wife, her sister and my sister-in-laws boy friend (who plays in a band and currently recording a CD) all agreed.

Doug

Re: What's Up with the Sound Joe?

srxman2001 wrote:
Rocket wrote:
srxman2001 wrote:

It's been hit or miss with me.  I've had 2 experiences with bad sound out of the 10 or so shows I've seen.  Last nights dpac show was one of them.  I'm no soundman but I would think 4th row center should have good sound.  I know the JB show at the Ohio Theater front row center sounded 1000 times better.  Must be the venue?

Doug

1,000 times better?! Sounds (pardon the pun) sketchy to me! big_smile  Anyway, not discounting how it was perceived by you, but as a note to those traveling over 500 miles to a show, be aware that road noise (whether you have music or conversation going all the time) can affect your ability to hear things "clearly" as they are soon after leaving the highways.  Even though the frequency is mostly (including much of high revving engines) below hearing thresholds of many, it has an ability to physically and psychologically affect sound perception, especially if there is not proper rest.  If you are over 30 also....it can be substantially worse.  Ever notice when you get off a freeway you have to turn the music down often???  The volume is the same level it was, but you cannot take it.  It could affect the band & crew too, but shouldn't be as prevalent on a bus, even from long rides (although rest is utterly important, knackered ain't no fun  wink ).

Maybe this wasn't your case Doug, but it can apply sometimes for anyone's information.

Rock On & Keep the Faith,
Rocket

Rocket-
Maybe it was only 500 times better but you get the point. tongue   I dont think it was traveling that affected my perception although the two shows that IMO the sound quality was the worst were the two shows I traveled a long distance to get to (Fort Wayne and Durham).  Although I did travel to Baltimore and Chicago and they sounded fine.  If traveling causes hearing difficulty, I wont hear a thing when I travel 2000 miles to Vegas to see him in Feb!!!

Im the type of person who wants Joes voice and guitar to stand out.  In your face, loud and clear!!!  I dont want to have to struggle to hear him play.  From my seat, for the most part (Woke Up Dreaming and solo stuff without the band being the exception), "It" wasn't there for me last night.  My wife, her sister and my sister-in-laws boy friend (who plays in a band and currently recording a CD) all agreed.

Hmm.  So, you couldn't hear the vocals or the guitar?  That's odd usually it's one or the other and with Joe it's usually the vocals that are denied.  Joe loves those baffles but maybe it's time to forgo the clean headroom and spare the vocals with  in-line attenuator? Then up the miked amps level for all? Unless that is already being done? Historically I have found Joe's vocals best if you are back a bit, but guitar up close and personal it rules all the day and the night time too.

Rock ON & Keep the Faith,
Rocket

"He still doesn't charge for mistakes! wink"
http://jbonamassa.com/tour-dates/
"Everybody wants ta get inta the act!"
“Now, this isn’t your ordinary party crowd, here.  I mean, there are professionals in here.”

Re: What's Up with the Sound Joe?

I've seen a show or two. I have witnessed the affect your talking about. Depending on the placement of the stage stacked arrays there is limited coverage inside the first few rows. There is a need to add volume to the vocals and guitar in the two stage wedges placed along the front row. There is a fine line to adjusting them. Stage volume of the band can be as high a 102 DB and those wedges have to compete with that. You can make them uncomfortably loud to the first few rows if they need to cover the first 10. I contend if you don't like it loud then don't sit that close. I have found the sound to be best at least 10 rows back from the stage when the line arrays begin to cover the entire theater.

I'm no sound engineer but I like the guitar loud and the vocals audible and I have heard some incredible mixes over the last couple of years the further back in the room is usually better where the stage volume is not an issue. Smaller rooms the stage volume can make it hard to mix. I just think it would be advisable to sit trusted ears inside the first ten rows and advise the volume of the front fill wedges.

Re: What's Up with the Sound Joe?

Yeah we've talked before about the vacuum bell up front produced by some mixes in different settings.  Bass especially is wierd acting on that 10 row bubble.  After that lower end stuff can rattle your molars loose and give you epilepsy.  Walk toward stage 30' and you're in the vacuum.

It's difficult to mix for the front row when the sound board is in the back row...trusted ears?  Yeah Jim...good call.  The boys rarely get it wrong for the whole show.  I've seen them adjust the mix throughout.  and adjust it well!

MuchLove
FDOL

Rock On & Keep the FAITH
             It is
Blues From the Bottoms

Re: What's Up with the Sound Joe?

bigjeffjones wrote:

Yeah we've talked before about the vacuum bell up front produced by some mixes in different settings.  Bass especially is wierd acting on that 10 row bubble.  After that lower end stuff can rattle your molars loose and give you epilepsy.  Walk toward stage 30' and you're in the vacuum.

It's difficult to mix for the front row when the sound board is in the back row...trusted ears?  Yeah Jim...good call.  The boys rarely get it wrong for the whole show.  I've seen them adjust the mix throughout.  and adjust it well!

MuchLove
FDOL

I am with Jim about sitting up front, if you don't like it loud do NOT sit there. I am not bemused by people who pay the price and then believe they have bought a legitimate gripe about it being "too loud" and then referencing their ticket price.  Bring some ear protection for goodness sake!!!  I like it loud and would be up front even if I was blind just to get it "loud enough" for me! However, I don't always NEED it to be really loud, so I tend to prefer about midway back.  As I am totally into the mixes, my ears can wander at will through the audible art galleries.  Depending on size, I also like to be so far back I am almost in another county, as to me that can be the best of all with magic from the stage and the mixing board.  What does a little rankling to me, is being in the front and, due to being over conservative, the bass is paltry, nay nearly (and likely is to many if not all further back) inaudible, and the vocals presence are overly dominant to ALL the rest of the music.  A premier and supremely gifted singer may as well be a capella and anyone else should fade into the background a tad (at minimum) more. 
I will be quite close, alone, at Nashville, Row DD seat 203.  If I get in for sound check I'll check it out. For the full on performance, I have great faith it will sound superb regardless.

Rock ON & Keep the Faith,
Rocket

"He still doesn't charge for mistakes! wink"
http://jbonamassa.com/tour-dates/
"Everybody wants ta get inta the act!"
“Now, this isn’t your ordinary party crowd, here.  I mean, there are professionals in here.”

Re: What's Up with the Sound Joe?

I have to say Sue & I always head for the front row (standing wherever possible) we always tend to get good sound from the stage monitors as the main sound from Joe & Carmines amps are shielded and pumped out through the PA. We therefore are usually a bit out of the mix for Ricks keys, but he has a wonderful smile! (only joking Rick - we do hear you but not as well as we would hear you further back. We have NEVER been blasted by high volume levels at any of Joe's shows, except for one number at Llandudno, when he was playing the red Ernie Ball Music Man - painful!?? Seated venues really don't do it for us I'm afraid. As long as I can draw breath we would prefer a standing option. Just my take.

Geoff O

Visit my Casino Images website http://www.casino-images.com/

Re: What's Up with the Sound Joe?

I am with you on standing Geoff, as you can always move to improve your perspectives, visually and aurally.

Rock On & Keep the Faith,
Rocket

"He still doesn't charge for mistakes! wink"
http://jbonamassa.com/tour-dates/
"Everybody wants ta get inta the act!"
“Now, this isn’t your ordinary party crowd, here.  I mean, there are professionals in here.”

Re: What's Up with the Sound Joe?

The sound techs brought their "A" game to the Peace Center in Greenville.  The band, the vocals, the overall sound was fantastic!  Another great show in the books!

Re: What's Up with the Sound Joe?

They always say 8th row center for the best sound...That's where we are at tomorrow night in Columbus...

It's a new dawn, it's a new day, it's a new life for me...and, I'm feelin good

Re: What's Up with the Sound Joe?

Hey guys.
         So the issues we had at the two said venues was that we couldn't hang our own pa. Those were house installs. I spoke to my systems tech and foh guy about it and they said it was like using a fender champ verses a Marshall stack. Next time we will work on getting our pa in to these fabulous venues. 
Thanks
JB