• From: Pittsburgh
  • Registered: 2008-05-22
  • Posts: 261

Topic: What's Happening?

Last night I ran my Fuchs ODS into a 2 x 12 Cab laoded w Celestain G65's and a Marshall 2550 Jubilee into a 2 x 12 w Vintage 30's.  I had these new cabs delivered to try out so keep in mind the speakers are brand new. Noramlly I would'nt use untried gear at a gig but it was a low keyed show and I also had about an hour and half soundcheck time to really work on it.
Each amp individually sounded great (except the G65's and the Fuchs were kinda boomy...I couldn't dial out the boom...weird for the Fuchs since it's a mid rangey amp) Still great though

Here's the question.  When the amps ran together I lost that boom of both the Fuchs AND the Marshall low end and the sound became thinner ...sorta piercing maybe...just sounded all hi mids.

Seperate the Marshall sounded amazing.  The Fuchs sounded good...together...not so much.  What am I doing wrong?  What's happening?

DannyG's Website

  • Rocket
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  • BONAMEGAMETAL
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  • From: San Francisco
  • Registered: 2006-04-26
  • Posts: 10,276

Re: What's Happening?

Out of phase signals likely and perhaps some other issues.  However, read this first to see what applies and is helpful: http://www.jbonamassa.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=13648

Rock ON & Keep the Faith,
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  • Registered: 2008-10-02
  • Posts: 373

Re: What's Happening?

Yep sounds like the amps are out of Phase.

  • From: Florida, USA
  • Registered: 2008-06-04
  • Posts: 1,420

Re: What's Happening?

First thought that came to mind was a phasing issue.  I heard flipping the speaker cable around or something helps that.  I've been lucky and never run into that particular issue myself.

'67 and '74 Fender Twin Reverbs, '74 Marshall 1987 lead mkII, Metro Superlead 100. Pedals from TC Electronic, Ibanez, Dunlop, BK Butler, Electro-Harmonix, Fulltone, Maestro/Gibson, Loopmaster switching, VoodooLab, Boss. Gibson and Fender guitars, Dimarzio pickups.
  • From: Florida, USA
  • Registered: 2008-06-04
  • Posts: 1,420

Re: What's Happening?

BTW DannyG I read your post on phasing/amp blending and you mentioned that you would be using a Radial BigShot.  Did the phasing switch on the pedal fix the problem?

'67 and '74 Fender Twin Reverbs, '74 Marshall 1987 lead mkII, Metro Superlead 100. Pedals from TC Electronic, Ibanez, Dunlop, BK Butler, Electro-Harmonix, Fulltone, Maestro/Gibson, Loopmaster switching, VoodooLab, Boss. Gibson and Fender guitars, Dimarzio pickups.
  • Registered: 2007-11-04
  • Posts: 404

Re: What's Happening?

So Danny after seriously thinking about your problem i went to youtube and found this video...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3gK3cUk … re=related

Then I decided you have no problem and should stop worrying so much.

Your tone is great and you have a great band that jams with Springsteen. You should play into a Epiphone Valve Special and enjoy your life...

I am just kidding... Good luck with the amps.

  • From: Pittsburgh
  • Registered: 2008-05-22
  • Posts: 261

Re: What's Happening?

HaHa..you guys are funny.  Me and a friend always talk about this "obsession" we have.  I love the Fuchs by itself...both the cleans and the lead tones are awesome.  So.  why mess with it?  Exactly.  Why, because we can. LOL. 
With my issues on saturday I was using a Morley A/B/Y.  The MArshall...and I'm usually not a Marshall fan but Holy Crap.  Now I know what you guys are talking about.  The 2550 Jubi sounds amazing. 

I just ordered the Big Shot off of eBay.  $74 w free shipping.  I'll keep ya posted.

Thanks for the props by the way.

DannyG's Website

  • Registered: 2008-10-02
  • Posts: 373

Re: What's Happening?

Danny its nice to see you got a Jub, welcome to the club, what setting did you find that you like and what speakers are you running?

E

  • From: Pittsburgh
  • Registered: 2008-05-22
  • Posts: 261

Re: What's Happening?

It's actually a friend on mine's.  You know, I couldn't tell you off hand what the settings are.  Bass is up there.  Not maxed but 3/4 I'd say.  Mids are around 7. Treble is about 3.  Presence is low 2-3 maybe.  Output gain is dimed I think.  Master is on...hmm.  Couldn't tell ya.  Input gain is high, too.  Didn't use the clean channel at all.  Had some delay in the effect loop.
Speakers are a Geezer Sound cab 2 x 12 w Vintage 30's.  Sounds great.  Just need to figure out why both amps together thin out.

DannyG's Website

  • From: Florida, USA
  • Registered: 2008-06-04
  • Posts: 1,420

Re: What's Happening?

Yeah DannyG the Morley is probably the problem.  Those things are tone SUCKERS and they allow the signal to bleed over BIGTIME between the two amps.  When the signal is bleeding the amp's true sound (ie when you engage them both).  I think the Morley aby is useful to get into the amp blending thing on the cheap, but do yourself a favor and put a quality ABY switcher in there!

'67 and '74 Fender Twin Reverbs, '74 Marshall 1987 lead mkII, Metro Superlead 100. Pedals from TC Electronic, Ibanez, Dunlop, BK Butler, Electro-Harmonix, Fulltone, Maestro/Gibson, Loopmaster switching, VoodooLab, Boss. Gibson and Fender guitars, Dimarzio pickups.
  • Registered: 2009-07-16
  • Posts: 105

Re: What's Happening?

stratpaulguy86 wrote:

Yeah DannyG the Morley is probably the problem.  Those things are tone SUCKERS and they allow the signal to bleed over BIGTIME between the two amps.  When the signal is bleeding the amp's true sound (ie when you engage them both).  I think the Morley aby is useful to get into the amp blending thing on the cheap, but do yourself a favor and put a quality ABY switcher in there!


Yep- the Morley AB/Y should be pulled from the Market. It's really bad. Still, you should look at the phasing and ground lift if needed.

A rewiring of One of the cabs could be called for.

  • Registered: 2010-07-09
  • Posts: 122

Re: What's Happening?

A quick, easy way to test for amp phasing is to run both amps together but turn one cab so it's facing the opposite direction.  If it sounds better, you have a phasing problem.  This assumes you have something behind the reversed cab to reflect the sound off of (you aren't at an outdoor venue).  The delay approximates a reversal of phase.

You can correct it by reversing the polarity of the wires to the jack inside the cab, or reverse the wires on one end of the speaker cable that goes from the amp to the cab.

Hope that helps.

Guitars: '79 LP Custom, '01 Dickey Betts Goldie - 80 of 114, '00 Chandler Lectraslide
Amps: '00 Marshall 1987x, '70 Marshall 1959 SL, 4x12 JBL D120s
'64 Vibroverb - JBL D130, '66 Super Reverb - CTS Alnicos
'77 Peavey Deuce (great for melting stubborn ear wax)
  • From: Pittsburgh
  • Registered: 2008-05-22
  • Posts: 261

Re: What's Happening?

The Fuchs by design is out of phase.  Some Fuchs owners..Incl Andy don't mind or think it's an issue.  Some Fuchs owners such as myself, Scott Lerner and Michael Lewis all think that the amp performs better in phase.  I had speaker cables made reversed to accomodate this.

So...here's were it gets complicated.  Running the two amps I'm getting an out of phase situation.  If I reverse the phase on the Fuchs by using a regular speaker cable it will put it "In" phase with the Marshall.  Will wthis be for only when both amps are engaged?  If I'm using the Fuchs by itself will it then be "out" of phase but then "In" phase when both amps are on?  Or is it just the amp switcher being in the chain that's doing it. 

even if I buy a Radial Big Shot or Lehle with reversed polarity...will this then run the Fuchs out of phase all the time?  Help me understand this please.
Thanks

DannyG's Website