• From: Belfast
  • Registered: 2010-02-01
  • Posts: 110

Topic: What do you think of Marshall Head and 2X12

Hi guys, thinking of going down the Marshall route after being a Fender and Mesa player for years.
I play regularly in the usual dives, bars and clubs.
I played last night and tried to think of what it would have been like playing through a Head/4X12 and honestly I think i would of looked like a bit of an ego maniac.
The stage was the usual, small and cramped and covered in beer spills and long forgotton set lists from previous bands.
I also had to lug my Mesa 2X12 up 3 stories of a fire escape.
I long for Marshall 70's Bonamassa/Gibbons/Haynes tone but am always fighting with myself to justify a 4X12, unless my band suddenly play the local arena (unlikely).
So i thought about going down the Bluesbreaker route, but I know you gotta crank em to get the tone (also heard the powerbreaker kills tone), and our sound guy hates me and always makes me keep the Mesa around 4 on the master as he mics everything.
I would love a 1974X but I heard you might as well buy a Vox Ac15 for a quarter of the price... must be cause they both use EL84 tubes???
I am thinking about a DSL 50 as everyone on here seems to like em, and it's funny because when they came out about 10 years ago all my guitar shop friends were saying they were rubbish and to try and look out for a JCM 800, (why is the 900 disliked so much?)
If i went down the route of a DSL, does anyone here play they through a 2X12 cab?
I have payed (and gigged) on a borrowed one about 3 years ago and it sounded great, but I was using a Peavey 5150 4X12 cab.
Does the sound change with the 2X12? Do you loose the Marshall thump that we're all looking for? Remember I am mic'd 95% of the time but rarely get a monitor feed so I like to 'feel' my tone on stage as well.

Guitars: 95 Les Paul Standard, Relic Strat,
Amps: 1973 Marshall JMP 50 head and Vintage Modern Cab. I use no effects other than a Cry Baby on occasions.
  • From: Florida, USA
  • Registered: 2008-06-04
  • Posts: 1,420

Re: What do you think of Marshall Head and 2X12

Keep in mind, essentially all of Joe's amps are being played through 2x12s.  He uses 4 amps through 8 speakers, and they are split vertically in pairs.  So yes, it is definately do-able.  As far as Marshalls go, the age old problem is the volume.  Most venues and stages just don't tolerate the dB's necessary to make a Marshall sound it's best.  I think this is a bunch of BS on the behalf of the soundmen and owners, but whatever.  I always thought rock and roll was suppose to be loud?  What's the old expression..."If it's too loud, you're too old"?  tongue

'67 and '74 Fender Twin Reverbs, '74 Marshall 1987 lead mkII, Metro Superlead 100. Pedals from TC Electronic, Ibanez, Dunlop, BK Butler, Electro-Harmonix, Fulltone, Maestro/Gibson, Loopmaster switching, VoodooLab, Boss. Gibson and Fender guitars, Dimarzio pickups.
  • From: Florida, USA
  • Registered: 2008-06-04
  • Posts: 1,420

Re: What do you think of Marshall Head and 2X12

BTW there are plenty of Marshall and Marshall-inspired heads out there for killer prices.  You can find great deals on 50w Jubilees ($1500), DSL's ($600), JCM800s, ect.  Some other alternatives that would be affordable are the Top Hat Emplexador MKI (the MKII is much pricier), Hughes and Kettner Duotone (FANTASTIC modern Marshall tones...wish I had one), Ceriatone, Metro Amp, Fargen, and many more.  Check The Gear Page for a lot of great deals, or EBAY if you want to deal with all the hassle.

'67 and '74 Fender Twin Reverbs, '74 Marshall 1987 lead mkII, Metro Superlead 100. Pedals from TC Electronic, Ibanez, Dunlop, BK Butler, Electro-Harmonix, Fulltone, Maestro/Gibson, Loopmaster switching, VoodooLab, Boss. Gibson and Fender guitars, Dimarzio pickups.
  • From: Belfast
  • Registered: 2010-02-01
  • Posts: 110

Re: What do you think of Marshall Head and 2X12

stratpaulguy86 wrote:

Keep in mind, essentially all of Joe's amps are being played through 2x12s.  He uses 4 amps through 8 speakers, and they are split vertically in pairs.  So yes, it is definately do-able.  As far as Marshalls go, the age old problem is the volume.  Most venues and stages just don't tolerate the dB's necessary to make a Marshall sound it's best.  I think this is a bunch of BS on the behalf of the soundmen and owners, but whatever.  I always thought rock and roll was suppose to be loud?  What's the old expression..."If it's too loud, you're too old"?  tongue


Yea man, I F**KING HATE SOUNDMEN!!!!!!!!

Has anyone ever stopped to think why Rock sounded so good in the late 60's / 70's?
... Cause the PA's were so bad the band's had to crank the plexi's. That WAS the tone!
Now everything's mic'd and kept at low leval, the whole dynamics of rock has changed.
A friend of mine knows the guys in Snow Patrol and got shown their stage recently at a gig and all the 4X12 cabs on stage were just for looks.
Underneath the stage in enclousures was were all the real amps were. And they weren't 100 watt Silver Jubilies!

Anyway rant over for today.

PS, Think I'm gonna get a Zilla (british made custom cabs) 2X12 to run with a DSL 100. Looked at the Marshall 2X12's but they seem to be made out of cheese. The Zilla is Birch.
Only choice in Greenbacks or Vintage 30's any ideas?

PS Still havn't got round to getting the baffles I emailed you about on YouTube a month or so ago.
But thanks again for the details on how to do it.

Nev.

Guitars: 95 Les Paul Standard, Relic Strat,
Amps: 1973 Marshall JMP 50 head and Vintage Modern Cab. I use no effects other than a Cry Baby on occasions.
  • From: Florida, USA
  • Registered: 2008-06-04
  • Posts: 1,420

Re: What do you think of Marshall Head and 2X12

No problem bro, hope it works out for you!  A DSL100 is a great choice if you need a versatile Marshall head.  Some tips with the DSL100 straight from Joe:

1) use the "classic" channel with the boost engaged and put a tubescreamer on top of it

2) put both volumes between 6-7 which is LOUD but sounds so good

3) deep switch-off, presense 3-4, treble 5, mids 7, bass 6  (I like a little reverb so I'd put the reverb on 4-5).  I think these are his EQ settings...I cannot remember.  It will change depending on your technique or guitars anyway but that's a good start.  Take care!

'67 and '74 Fender Twin Reverbs, '74 Marshall 1987 lead mkII, Metro Superlead 100. Pedals from TC Electronic, Ibanez, Dunlop, BK Butler, Electro-Harmonix, Fulltone, Maestro/Gibson, Loopmaster switching, VoodooLab, Boss. Gibson and Fender guitars, Dimarzio pickups.
  • From: Florida, USA
  • Registered: 2008-06-04
  • Posts: 1,420

Re: What do you think of Marshall Head and 2X12

Almost forgot about the speakers...Joe used to use Celestions and they are a classic choice for Marshalls/rock music.  I like the tone of the Greenbacks better than the Vintage 30s, however you don't get enough power from them to run a 100w head in a 2x12 configuration.  I would check out Scumback speakers.  They are VERY highly regarded amongst Marshall enthusiasts and offer a Greenback type speaker with more power to handle the big amps.

'67 and '74 Fender Twin Reverbs, '74 Marshall 1987 lead mkII, Metro Superlead 100. Pedals from TC Electronic, Ibanez, Dunlop, BK Butler, Electro-Harmonix, Fulltone, Maestro/Gibson, Loopmaster switching, VoodooLab, Boss. Gibson and Fender guitars, Dimarzio pickups.
  • Registered: 2008-10-27
  • Posts: 176

Re: What do you think of Marshall Head and 2X12

Just put two EVM12L's in there and you're good to go with 400W power handling. That's what I have in my 2X12 cab. Now I know I can plug in at least two DSL2000 100W without a single problem. + Joe highly praises them! Did you forget that stratpaul?

Don't forget that Joe once said that scumback stands for scumbag... Am I wrong? roll

  • Registered: 2007-09-30
  • Posts: 556

Re: What do you think of Marshall Head and 2X12

twistingcrow wrote:

Just put two EVM12L's in there and you're good to go with 400W power handling. That's what I have in my 2X12 cab. Now I know I can plug in at least two DSL2000 100W without a single problem. + Joe highly praises them! Did you forget that stratpaul?

Don't forget that Joe once said that scumback stands for scumbag... Am I wrong? roll

+1 on the EV's.  The only celestion I'd buy is a greenback, but if you crank a 100 watt through a 2x12 with them you will burn them up fast.

Ben

  • From: Florida, USA
  • Registered: 2008-06-04
  • Posts: 1,420

Re: What do you think of Marshall Head and 2X12

twistingcrow wrote:

Just put two EVM12L's in there and you're good to go with 400W power handling. That's what I have in my 2X12 cab. Now I know I can plug in at least two DSL2000 100W without a single problem. + Joe highly praises them! Did you forget that stratpaul?

Don't forget that Joe once said that scumback stands for scumbag... Am I wrong? roll

Definately didn't forget about the EVs, but he was talking about Celestions.  A lot of Celestion fans dig the coloration of the speakers, especially if you are running one amp at a time.  It fills in the EQ better for a full.  The EV is a more flat sounding speaker, which in it's own right is a great thing.  Also, the EV's are god-awful heavy.  That being said, I'll probably be dropping 2 of them in a 2x12 cab for my main rig! tongue

'67 and '74 Fender Twin Reverbs, '74 Marshall 1987 lead mkII, Metro Superlead 100. Pedals from TC Electronic, Ibanez, Dunlop, BK Butler, Electro-Harmonix, Fulltone, Maestro/Gibson, Loopmaster switching, VoodooLab, Boss. Gibson and Fender guitars, Dimarzio pickups.
  • From: Belfast
  • Registered: 2010-02-01
  • Posts: 110

Re: What do you think of Marshall Head and 2X12

stratpaulguy86 wrote:
twistingcrow wrote:

Just put two EVM12L's in there and you're good to go with 400W power handling. That's what I have in my 2X12 cab. Now I know I can plug in at least two DSL2000 100W without a single problem. + Joe highly praises them! Did you forget that stratpaul?

Don't forget that Joe once said that scumback stands for scumbag... Am I wrong? roll

Definately didn't forget about the EVs, but he was talking about Celestions.  A lot of Celestion fans dig the coloration of the speakers, especially if you are running one amp at a time.  It fills in the EQ better for a full.  The EV is a more flat sounding speaker, which in it's own right is a great thing.  Also, the EV's are god-awful heavy.  That being said, I'll probably be dropping 2 of them in a 2x12 cab for my main rig! tongue


The cabnet company Zilla seem to just offer Greenbacks or Vintage 30's.
I could buy an empty cab from them though and put what ever I wanted in there...

I read somewhere Warren Haynes is a big fan of the Vintage 30's and he'd running a Soldano SLO 100.
But then again I guess he's running a 4X12.
After Joe's tone, I really love the creamyness of Warren Haynes's tone on the first Gov't Mule album. That and Billy Gibbons's tone on the first 3 ZZ albums. Oh yes and Claptons's tone on the Bluesbreaker albums...
There is a trend starting to emerge here...

Guitars: 95 Les Paul Standard, Relic Strat,
Amps: 1973 Marshall JMP 50 head and Vintage Modern Cab. I use no effects other than a Cry Baby on occasions.
  • From: Ridgeland, MS
  • Registered: 2009-08-12
  • Posts: 1,248

Re: What do you think of Marshall Head and 2X12

Scholz SugarCones are really great sounding EVM-type speakers that, to my ear, are a tad more "musical" while still being a high power-handling speaker.

  • Registered: 2009-03-12
  • Posts: 410

Re: What do you think of Marshall Head and 2X12

Why are JCM 900's so disliked?  because they are crap. That's why.

  • From: Belfast
  • Registered: 2010-02-01
  • Posts: 110

Re: What do you think of Marshall Head and 2X12

Tripod wrote:

Why are JCM 900's so disliked?  because they are crap. That's why.


lol:lol::lol:
Man, that made me laugh. Just had a bad gig, played like I'd never seen a guitar before let alone practiced it for 19 years... my sound sucked and I sucked.

You've just put me in a better mood again. Never played a 900 but it couldn't have sounded any worse than my Mesa Boogie Express 5:50 did tonight. Why did I ever sell my Re-Issue Bassman???

then again, a bad workman always blames his tools...

Guitars: 95 Les Paul Standard, Relic Strat,
Amps: 1973 Marshall JMP 50 head and Vintage Modern Cab. I use no effects other than a Cry Baby on occasions.
  • From: Belfast
  • Registered: 2010-02-01
  • Posts: 110

Re: What do you think of Marshall Head and 2X12

OK guys so tell me this... and I am sorry if I come across as an idiot.

If I have a 60 watt head. What wattage of speaker cab (2X12) do I need to run it properly?

Just bought an Old Sovtek MIG-60 and have heard great things, played one years ago through my friends 4X12 sounded awesome,

Do I need double the wattage for the 60 watts?

Guitars: 95 Les Paul Standard, Relic Strat,
Amps: 1973 Marshall JMP 50 head and Vintage Modern Cab. I use no effects other than a Cry Baby on occasions.
  • Registered: 2008-10-02
  • Posts: 373

Re: What do you think of Marshall Head and 2X12

60 watt head just needs two speakers that are 30 watts each basiclly the Cab should be = or> than the Wattage of the head.

With regards to the 2x12 cab choice. I did the opposite I had a Marshall 1936 2x12 cab for years with my Jub but I could never hear myself well on stage because the sound was allways at my knees. I sold the 1936 and got a 1960AV with vintage 30's it sounds awsome and I can run to amps to the one cab if I want. Is it a pain to carry sure, is it a bit over kill, not really if I control the volume. But really the cab isn't that much bigger than my 1936 but since it has two speakers facing upward its much easier to hear. Now if you must get a 212 look for an old 1966a cab or one of the handwired marshall Cabs or anything that has a slant speaker in it. I got the 412 for next to nothing and it works great but If I had to buy another 212 it would be with slant speaker.

  • From: Belfast
  • Registered: 2010-02-01
  • Posts: 110

Re: What do you think of Marshall Head and 2X12

Big E wrote:

60 watt head just needs two speakers that are 30 watts each basiclly the Cab should be = or> than the Wattage of the head.

With regards to the 2x12 cab choice. I did the opposite I had a Marshall 1936 2x12 cab for years with my Jub but I could never hear myself well on stage because the sound was allways at my knees. I sold the 1936 and got a 1960AV with vintage 30's it sounds awsome and I can run to amps to the one cab if I want. Is it a pain to carry sure, is it a bit over kill, not really if I control the volume. But really the cab isn't that much bigger than my 1936 but since it has two speakers facing upward its much easier to hear. Now if you must get a 212 look for an old 1966a cab or one of the handwired marshall Cabs or anything that has a slant speaker in it. I got the 412 for next to nothing and it works great but If I had to buy another 212 it would be with slant speaker.


You're gonna shoot me here but: would I get away with a 1X12 if the wattage of the cab was more than 60watts?
Dont worry about stage vol as I will mic it and feed it back through the desk to a monitor.

Guitars: 95 Les Paul Standard, Relic Strat,
Amps: 1973 Marshall JMP 50 head and Vintage Modern Cab. I use no effects other than a Cry Baby on occasions.
  • Registered: 2009-11-24
  • Posts: 94

Re: What do you think of Marshall Head and 2X12

you'll need a speaker that can handle at least 50% more wattage than the specified output of your power amplifier. For 60 watts you'll need 90 watt speakers to handle the peaks without destroying your speaker, provided you play pretty high a volume level.  But a speaker that is constantly driven doesn't really sound great to a lot of people. I like my speakers to be able to stay clean and get distortion from the preamp and the power amp.

  • From: Belfast
  • Registered: 2010-02-01
  • Posts: 110

Re: What do you think of Marshall Head and 2X12

Chris Martins wrote:

you'll need a speaker that can handle at least 50% more wattage than the specified output of your power amplifier. For 60 watts you'll need 90 watt speakers to handle the peaks without destroying your speaker, provided you play pretty high a volume level.  But a speaker that is constantly driven doesn't really sound great to a lot of people. I like my speakers to be able to stay clean and get distortion from the preamp and the power amp.


So should I go for a lesser quality 4X12 or a better quality 2X12 or 1X12?

Seems to be a few 50/60 watt 1X12 combos around that seem to take the powerage well enough.

Guitars: 95 Les Paul Standard, Relic Strat,
Amps: 1973 Marshall JMP 50 head and Vintage Modern Cab. I use no effects other than a Cry Baby on occasions.