1 (edited by RickB 2010-02-07 21:47:41)

Topic: Anyone a Sailor?

The quest for the oldest trophy in sport, the America's Cup, is finally on the water! After seemingly endless legal wrangling between the egos of two  bazillionaires, Larry Ellison and Ernesto Bertarelli, the boats will commence the duel tomorrow. Some may think in these days of economic hardship that this obscene display of wealth and power may be over the top but money like this is what technology needs. It has been like the race for space on water. Carbon fiber, kevlar, 223 foot high wingsail with flaps like an aircraft, all there and more! It is "run what you brung" racing with top speed the only common denominator.

This will be a test between ultra high tech marvels of marine engineering with a lot of aerospace technology thrown in. Both 90 foot boats, one a catamaran and the other a trimaran, are capable of easily achieving speeds of 3x windspeed. Anyone with an interest in sailing will be watching this no-limit slugfest with glee.  The Ellison trimaran tested here in San Diego and was observed hitting speeds of 45 to 50 mph. Hardly a pedestrian sport any more! This takes sailing to the limit and poses serious risk of injury or worse to the crew with the titanic strains placed on the hulls and rigging.

Stay tuned... this will be a racing series to remember. (if you care cool )

Live coverage starts at 1000 CET tomorrow. http://www.americascup.com/en/index.php

Rick

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Re: Anyone a Sailor?

The oldest trophy in sport ... The America's Cup.... Are you sure about that ?
How far back are we going ?
~ Brack ~

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Re: Anyone a Sailor?

Done some research...

The Cup originally offered as the Royal Yacht Squadron Cup, UK 1851

15 Schooner-Yachts raced around the Isle of White, UK
and won by a American owned Schooner, and only became the America's cup, after the first winner, "America"

The Cup was made in 1848 by Garrads & Co of London.
The Cup is made of ornate Britannia silver-plate.

~ Brack ~

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4 (edited by RickB 2010-02-08 00:01:50)

Re: Anyone a Sailor?

Brack wrote:

The oldest trophy in sport ... The America's Cup.... Are you sure about that ?
How far back are we going ?
~ Brack ~

Yes, I believe it is. At least, the longest running competition for a cup. There is only one cup, which is possessed by the winner until the next competition. It was, is, and will always be a rich man's race. It is coveted beyond all others. It is a race of nations as well. One might call it the world cup of yachting. Only one yacht per yacht club is allowed to compete for the prize. If there are multiple challengers, they have a competition to select the ultimate challenger. Presently, that is called the Louis Vuitton Cup. The America's Cup race is always the best of 7 between the best yacht of the defending nation and the best yacht of all the challengers. Head to head.

The possesor of the Cup sets the time and place of the race when challenged. Traditionally, it is rigged to give the defending club the edge by local knowledge of seasonal wind conditions, currents and so forth.

The yachts are constructed by a set of design rules set forth in the deed of gift that established the Cup. The design rules have been modified as yacht building has advanced through the centuries. They can only be modified by the possessor of the cup. (read more fixing). There is a long and storied history of trying to find ways to "cheat" within the rules. Great secrecy surrounds each competing club's yacht and spies have been employed in the past to find out everyone's "edge".

Rick

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5 (edited by cathysiler 2010-02-08 21:56:04)

Re: Anyone a Sailor?

I'm with you Rick. Ted Turner (and a past relationship) got me into it. Although it's much more fun to sail than to watch it.  But, losing the Cup was painful, and I must admit to being one of those fair weather fans. The winged keel changed everything. Thanks for the heads up. Ever since Versus stopped broadcasting I can't find yachting. I don't know what I'm going to do when cycling starts!!!!     Cathy

(yup, tricky business that yatching - ed.) big_smile

6 (edited by RickB 2010-02-08 09:39:47)

Re: Anyone a Sailor?

Cool Cathy. I knew there would be a sailor out there somewhere. Living in San Diego, I grew up on and around sailboats and  I have been close to yacht racing and the Cup challenges more than most, especially since I work in a marine field (see my website)  and service racing sailboats. I know and have worked with Dennis Connor in the last San Diego defense series.  I have seen Ellison's boat on the water and it is unreal! 233 ft. vertical carbon fiber wing with flaps like a 'plane! 50 Kts in 15 kt wind!!?? HANG ON!

The Swiss boat is supposedly designed for somewhat lighter winds than the American. Cat vs Tri? It will be interesting to see a boat race where all that counts is speed. 5 am EST is kickoff. I don't believe these races will be long and slow. Fast used to be 10 kts.
Rick

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Re: Anyone a Sailor?

Due to a lack of steady wind, the first race was abandoned and rescheduled for Wednesday.

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Re: Anyone a Sailor?

RickB wrote:
Brack wrote:

The oldest trophy in sport ... The America's Cup.... Are you sure about that ?
How far back are we going ?
~ Brack ~

Yes, I believe it is. At least, the longest running competition for a cup. There is only one cup, which is possessed by the winner until the next competition. It was, is, and will always be a rich man's race.

It is coveted beyond all others. It is a race of nations as well.

One might call it the world cup of yachting. Only one yacht per yacht club is allowed to compete for the prize. If there are multiple challengers, they have a competition to select the ultimate challenger. Presently, that is called the Louis Vuitton Cup. The America's Cup race is always the best of 7 between the best yacht of the defending nation and the best yacht of all the challengers. Head to head.

The possesor of the Cup sets the time and place of the race when challenged. Traditionally, it is rigged to give the defending club the edge by local knowledge of seasonal wind conditions, currents and so forth.

The yachts are constructed by a set of design rules set forth in the deed of gift that established the Cup. The design rules have been modified as yacht building has advanced through the centuries. They can only be modified by the possessor of the cup. (read more fixing). There is a long and storied history of trying to find ways to "cheat" within the rules. Great secrecy surrounds each competing club's yacht and spies have been employed in the past to find out everyone's "edge".

Rick

GOOD KARMA - http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m3zkw … o1_500.jpg
Avatar Credit: D.Hirst,Olympic Union Flag
Adele: RAH http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Oio8V3e3WU&ob=av2e -
We Are The Champ20ns

9 (edited by Brack 2010-02-08 21:10:42)

Re: Anyone a Sailor?

Brack wrote:
RickB wrote:
Brack wrote:

The oldest trophy in sport ... The America's Cup.... Are you sure about that ?
How far back are we going ?
~ Brack ~

Yes, I believe it is. At least, the longest running competition for a cup. There is only one cup, which is possessed by the winner until the next competition. It was, is, and will always be a rich man's race.

It is coveted beyond all others. It is a race of nations as well.

I think the football World Cup would be up there as most coverted.
~ Brack ~

One might call it the world cup of yachting. Only one yacht per yacht club is allowed to compete for the prize. If there are multiple challengers, they have a competition to select the ultimate challenger. Presently, that is called the Louis Vuitton Cup. The America's Cup race is always the best of 7 between the best yacht of the defending nation and the best yacht of all the challengers. Head to head.

The possesor of the Cup sets the time and place of the race when challenged. Traditionally, it is rigged to give the defending club the edge by local knowledge of seasonal wind conditions, currents and so forth.

The yachts are constructed by a set of design rules set forth in the deed of gift that established the Cup. The design rules have been modified as yacht building has advanced through the centuries. They can only be modified by the possessor of the cup. (read more fixing). There is a long and storied history of trying to find ways to "cheat" within the rules. Great secrecy surrounds each competing club's yacht and spies have been employed in the past to find out everyone's "edge".

Rick

GOOD KARMA - http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m3zkw … o1_500.jpg
Avatar Credit: D.Hirst,Olympic Union Flag
Adele: RAH http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Oio8V3e3WU&ob=av2e -
We Are The Champ20ns

10 (edited by RickB 2010-02-09 00:33:53)

Re: Anyone a Sailor?

Brack, that was a confusing reply so I will address what I think you meant.

Most coveted refers to the global yacht racing community.

I agree the football world cup is much more important among nations.

The America's Cup is one of the ultimate bragging rights among the super-rich. The most wealthy men in the UK strived for more than 100 years before they even won one race out of a match. One of the most famous quotes in sports history was made by the official observer for Queen Victoria in the first race, which she sponsored. She asked, when informed that America was in the lead and winning, "Who is second." The response was, "Your Majesty, there is no second." In addition to huge sums of cash, national pride is involved. Since the races are held more than 4 years apart, the bragging rights last and gall the losers.

The present race is unique since it is a "Deed of Gift" match. I believe there has only been one other challenge of this type in Cup history. You can google this topic for a more lengthy explanation. Phalanxes of lawers have battled in the highest courts just to decide where, when, and in what kind of boat this race would be done.

The two principals in this race are among the very richest in the world, multibillionaires. Each has invested close to 200 million, maybe more, to develop, build and hopefully win. They also bankroll the team of professional sailors who are the best in the world. Very rich men have been ruined in the past on this quest. It becomes an obsession of ego. We are witnessing such a contest and there is BAD BLOOD between them.

This match is a best 2 out of 3. I was incorrect in my original statement because in the case of a Deed match, things change.

Watch it online on Wednesday, weather allowing. This is an historic event.
Rick

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Re: Anyone a Sailor?

RickB wrote:

Brack, that was a confusing reply so I will address what I think you meant.

Brack has yet to master the art of editing and replying in quotes. tongue

This is not remotely 'my thang', but I can appreciate someone waxing so eloquently and lyrically about a 'sport' that they love - so hats off to you, Rick and I hope you get some great racing.

Don't you go calling Cathy a 'sailor', though.....she's already got 27 personas.... tongue

RIP Iron Man

Rock On and keep the Faith

12 (edited by RickB 2010-02-10 02:33:50)

Re: Anyone a Sailor?

Thanks for the support of my wax sir. roll Wish this was a paying pursuit, my column inch count soars. big_smile

I love this race because it gives us peons a chance to see the true heavyweights of the world slug it out in a test of pocketbooks.

I tended to run on about it because it is a very long and involved history; difficult for the uninitiated to appreciate. Very full of the "agony of defeat". It was a cruel blow when the miserable Aussies beat us at our own cheating game and wrested "our" Cup from us.

Bertarelli flung another barb towards his nemisis yesterday by asking why Ellison wasn't on his boat for the first race. Ellison responded with a lame "my boat didn't need the extra weight in light airs". One would think he might like to ride his toy after dumping hundreds of millions into it.

The drama continues tomorrow off Valencia, if there is wind.
Rick

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Re: Anyone a Sailor?

Amsterhammere said

Don't you go calling Cathy a 'sailor', though.....she's already got 27 personas.... tongue

Maybe she's got 27 sailors stashed away. yikes

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14 (edited by Brack 2010-02-10 14:01:07)

Re: Anyone a Sailor?

RickB wrote:

Thanks for the support of my wax sir. roll Wish this was a paying pursuit, my column inch count soars. big_smile

I love this race because it gives us peons a chance to see the true heavyweights of the world slug it out in a test of pocketbooks.

I tended to run on about it because it is a very long and involved history; difficult for the uninitiated to appreciate. Very full of the "agony of defeat". It was a cruel blow when the miserable Aussies beat us at our own cheating game and wrested "our" Cup from us.

Bertarelli flung another barb towards his nemisis yesterday by asking why Ellison wasn't on his boat for the first race. Ellison responded with a lame "my boat didn't need the extra weight in light airs". One would think he might like to ride his toy after dumping hundreds of millions into it.

The drama continues tomorrow off Valencia, if there is wind.
Rick

Is it your cup ?

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Re: Anyone a Sailor?

Ah..... You are starting to get it Brack.

Amongst the American sailing community, it was considered a national affront when we lost it after some 132 years of turning away all comers. That was a string of wins never to be equaled again, most likely. This is why consortiums of very wealthy yachtsmen have spent fortunes trying to win it back.

The Holy Grail of Yachting.
Rick

edit. Race postponed again due to erratic winds.

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Re: Anyone a Sailor?

RickB wrote:

Ah..... You are starting to get it Brack.

Amongst the American sailing community, it was considered a national affront when we lost it after some 132 years of turning away all comers. That was a string of wins never to be equaled again, most likely. This is why consortiums of very wealthy yachtsmen have spent fortunes trying to win it back.

The Holy Grail of Yachting.
Rick

edit. Race postponed again due to erratic winds.

I can see how you would see, or regard the cup as yours after 132 years .... if somewhat arrogant ... may I say!

I see the race, very much the F1 of racing..... Only a few, the elite can compete.
~ Brack ~

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Adele: RAH http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Oio8V3e3WU&ob=av2e -
We Are The Champ20ns

17 (edited by RickB 2010-02-10 21:49:15)

Re: Anyone a Sailor?

Brack wrote:
RickB wrote:

Ah..... You are starting to get it Brack.

Amongst the American sailing community, it was considered a national affront when we lost it after some 132 years of turning away all comers. That was a string of wins never to be equaled again, most likely. This is why consortiums of very wealthy yachtsmen have spent fortunes trying to win it back.

The Holy Grail of Yachting.
Rick

edit. Race postponed again due to erratic winds.

I can see how you would see, or regard the cup as yours after 132 years .... if somewhat arrogant ... may I say!

I see the race, very much the F1 of racing..... Only a few, the elite can compete.
~ Brack ~

Exactly! These guys wage war in the courtroom before the race trying to fix the outcome or tilt it in their favor.
edit: Arrogance comes with the territory in those circles!
One very curious aspect of the present race is that the Cup is now held by Switzerland! A land-locked country. They wanted to hold the race on Lake Geneva. lol
One of the Deed's rules is that the boat must be built in the country of the defender or challenger. The Swiss boat was built in Switzerland, then picked up and flown by giant helicopter over the Alps to Italy for initial sea trials. It is too big for any other type of transport.

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18 (edited by Brack 2010-02-10 21:56:24)

Re: Anyone a Sailor?

RickB wrote:
Brack wrote:
RickB wrote:

Ah..... You are starting to get it Brack.

Amongst the American sailing community, it was considered a national affront when we lost it after some 132 years of turning away all comers. That was a string of wins never to be equaled again, most likely. This is why consortiums of very wealthy yachtsmen have spent fortunes trying to win it back.

The Holy Grail of Yachting.
Rick

edit. Race postponed again due to erratic winds.

I can see how you would see, or regard the cup as yours after 132 years .... if somewhat arrogant ... may I say!

I see the race, very much the F1 of racing..... Only a few, the elite can compete.
~ Brack ~

Exactly! These guys wage war in the courtroom before the race trying to fix the outcome or tilt it in their favor.
edit: Arrogance comes with the territory in those circles!
One very curious aspect of the present race is that the Cup is now held by Switzerland! A land-locked country. They wanted to hold the race on Lake Geneva. lol
One of the Deed's rules is that the boat must be built in the country of the defender or challenger. The Swiss boat was built in Switzerland, then picked up and flown by giant helicopter over the Alps to Italy for initial sea trials. It is too big for any other type of transport.

That's interesting..... The swiss , present holders!..... I call that Ironic.   smile

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