• Registered: 2010-01-13
  • Posts: 21

Topic: True bypass, and tone suck

I am new to the forum. Does anybody else agree with Joe on using a non-true bypass wah? I used to run, TU-2 --> Dunlop Wah (cheap one) --> DS-1 (stock, yuk) --> DMM (old one, not true bypass) --> CE-3 --> Fender Supersonic.

The sound is terrible. Buzz, hum, tone is dull. How does joe keep from having this problem. Makes me wanna just take the Angus Young approach, Guitar to amp, DONE. Thats cool if all your songs sound the same (sorry ACDC Fans) but I play in church and I have to be able to get different sounds. Any advice appreciated.

  • From: Detroit
  • Registered: 2006-06-02
  • Posts: 5,807

Re: True bypass, and tone suck

do you use a wah at church? I'd like to know what church has songs that sound like AC/DC! That rocks! lol

to answer your question, I have a VOX wah and modded it for bypass, there is a small pop when I engage it, but it's not bad.

welcome to the forum!

- Nic from Detroit... posting on JB's Forum since 6-2-2006
Ask me about my handwound Great Lakes Guitar Pickups
Since 2010, Bonamassa fans have taken advantage of my JB friend discount = my cost + shipping. cool
  • Ocean
  • Silver Member
  • Offline
  • From: south of Dallas
  • Registered: 2008-06-13
  • Posts: 60

Re: True bypass, and tone suck

There are a few things you can do.  And I'm not sure Joe specifies why he prefers non TB wahs.  Maybe he places it later in the chain or has it on a looper or switcher so that it's only engaged in certain situations.  In both of those cases, the high end rolloff might be something that adds a favorable tone to his ears.  Not sure.

That high end cut or "tone suck" is generally the issue most of us have with non TB wahs.  It happens because your guitar's signal is being loaded down by the wah's input.  If you place a buffer before the input of the wah - preferrably one with a high input impedance, the wah will see a signal that's not loaded down.  Or you could put your wah on a looper and get it out of the chain when it's not needed...that way it won't adversely affect your tone when you don't need the wah.  Or just mod your wah for true bypass (or get a true bypass wah).  I don't think the switch "pop" will be enough of an issue for you.  The Budda wah is a great true bypass wah for not alot of money as far as boutique wahs go.  It's not a crybaby, though...not as harsh on the high end...more vox-like.

Ocean's Website

  • From: Germany
  • Registered: 2008-04-23
  • Posts: 553

Re: True bypass, and tone suck

I had a TU-2 and it sucks the tone clearly audible.
I replaced it to a Korg DT-10 which i'm happy with since
5 years. I placed the tuner behind the wah as it has an inbuilt buffer
to compensate the signal loss.
In general, try to take out ped by ped to see which one sucks the tone.
Sometimes its just one weak link in a chain.

Good luck
Alex

...it's a musical journey
www.u2-experience.de

Stratovari's Website

  • Ocean
  • Silver Member
  • Offline
  • From: south of Dallas
  • Registered: 2008-06-13
  • Posts: 60

Re: True bypass, and tone suck

Absolutely.  Stratovari is right...forgot to mention that.  Put that TU-2 on a looper or replace it because it will muddy up your tone as well.

Ocean's Website

  • From: Florida, USA
  • Registered: 2008-06-04
  • Posts: 1,420

Re: True bypass, and tone suck

brandonmacey wrote:

I am new to the forum. Does anybody else agree with Joe on using a non-true bypass wah? I used to run, TU-2 --> Dunlop Wah (cheap one) --> DS-1 (stock, yuk) --> DMM (old one, not true bypass) --> CE-3 --> Fender Supersonic.

The sound is terrible. Buzz, hum, tone is dull. How does joe keep from having this problem. Makes me wanna just take the Angus Young approach, Guitar to amp, DONE. Thats cool if all your songs sound the same (sorry ACDC Fans) but I play in church and I have to be able to get different sounds. Any advice appreciated.

I absolutely see why Joe uses a non-true bypass wah.  It helps roll the highs off and for Joe this is a desirable effect.  He's always looking for the warmest, most vocal sound possible.  In his Strat days, it was especially helpful in reducing a little bit of that icepick high end that most Fenders have.  It's very important to have at least one buffered pedal in your chain that is not true bypass.  If you run lots of cables, pedals, effects processors...the signal is having to travel through a lot of crap.  A buffered signal helps push the signal along so it does not get weaker.  If you ran 50 feet of wires with 10 true bypass boutique pedals you'd wish you had that buffered TS808 or Boss pedal in there!  Just my .02 .

'67 and '74 Fender Twin Reverbs, '74 Marshall 1987 lead mkII, Metro Superlead 100. Pedals from TC Electronic, Ibanez, Dunlop, BK Butler, Electro-Harmonix, Fulltone, Maestro/Gibson, Loopmaster switching, VoodooLab, Boss. Gibson and Fender guitars, Dimarzio pickups.

7 Reply by Ocean (edited by Ocean 2010-01-14 05:02:41)

  • Ocean
  • Silver Member
  • Offline
  • From: south of Dallas
  • Registered: 2008-06-13
  • Posts: 60

Re: True bypass, and tone suck

It's very important to have at least one buffered pedal in your chain that is not true bypass.  If you run lots of cables, pedals, effects processors...the signal is having to travel through a lot of crap.  A buffered signal helps push the signal along so it does not get weaker. 

With all due respect, this is not always true.  A buffered signal does help push the signal along in some cases but just sticking a TS808 in the chain won't always work.  A buffer can be a good thing to have at the beginning of the pedal chain but the only way to have a consistent low Z signal through the chain after that is to have a buffer built into each pedal thereafter.  Otherwise, once you step on any TB pedal after that buffer, your signal is now being driven by the output  impedance of THAT pedal...NOT the buffer.  And likely, that pedal's output is larger than the buffer...considerably.

Just make sure your cables are high quality and go true bypass.  Chain them all together and don't worry about signal loss.  Chances are very good that you won't be disappointed.  Of course, that's just my take...

Ocean's Website

8 Reply by GoT MuLe 31788 (edited by GoT MuLe 31788 2010-01-14 05:14:18)

  • Registered: 2007-09-30
  • Posts: 556

Re: True bypass, and tone suck

The stuff you use has to fit you.  If you put a pedal in your chain and it degrades from your tone in a way you don't like then take it out and use something else.  Before I even test the pedal out I see what it does to my natural tone and if I passes that test, then I see what the pedal has to offer and go from there.  It's useless to me if a pedal screws up your base tone because its your base tone and you want to use the effect on that sound regardless of what how good the pedal sounds when its on.  Just demo stuff and find something that suits your needs.  Don't get stuck up on true bypass or not or whatever you want to call it - It didn't stop Hendrix and who knew what was in that chain... all I know is it sounded awesome.  Also a cranked amp helps.  A lot of the problem is playing an amp without it opened up because you start to compensate that natural overdrive with pre-amp gain and it mush's everything to garbage.

Thats my .02,
Ben

  • From: Harrison, Arkansas
  • Registered: 2006-04-21
  • Posts: 3,155

Re: True bypass, and tone suck

I put my wah first in line, and I love it that way. It goes through the rest of my pedals and then into the amp. I don't whether or not it's true bypass or not.

"And in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make"

My ReverbNation page for Dees & Friends - check us out!
www.reverbnation.com/deesfriends
  • Registered: 2009-10-27
  • Posts: 250

Re: True bypass, and tone suck

Best course of action IMHO: First make sure you're using the BEST cables - all cables - this is the biggest mistake I see!!  I prefer Evidence Audio cables for everything!!  Second, I got caught up in all the botique pedals in my search for tone, particularly with OD pedals, what I learned later, I was just searching all along for that Dumble like OD tone - forget as much as possible pedals and save the money and get a Ceriatone (if cost is an issue) or a Two Rock, etc...whatever wets your whistle - don't buy pedals to emualte the amp you don't have is what I suggest.

True Bypass is better IMO than non true bypass, but once you start with the first pedal in front of amp, the probelm begins and amplifies the more pedals you use - too much hose in front of amp IMO...you can't have your cake and it eat it, if you want pedals, understand that tone loss will happen.  Try if you can to first use two amps that compliment each other, via Marshall and Two Rock rather then using pedals to find the tone with inferior amps, guitars and cables. 

Bottom line:  Best cables, great guitars set-up professionally, great amps and limited use of pedals IMHO.

Last Note:  Everyday I find myself losing pedals and using a pick less and less - it's like a graduation of sorts, for me at least.  So much can be accomplished with pick/finger attack to create your own signature tone.  I'm about to sell probably at least $1K or more in pedals to buy a second quality amp and just use a Katana and or maybe my Providence SOV-2 OD or Dumkudo OD pedal for some extra boost when needed..ok maybe keep my T-Rex Replica delay....then done for me.

Wow...sorry for the rant...off to a glass of Red Wine smile

TF

  • Registered: 2010-01-13
  • Posts: 21

Re: True bypass, and tone suck

Thanks everyone for input, great to have a forum like this with lots of knowlegable gearheads. I am going to look into the budwah, as it is true bypass and doesn't cost alot of money, I like that quality in a pedal, lol. Definitley agree with using as little pedals as possible, but I wouldn't consider my pedalboard crowded, I suspect it's the quality of my pedals.

Something I didn't mention in my original post is that my Chorus pedal has this extremly IRRITATING problem. It has a timed fuzz, white noise, crap sound, (moving at the rate of the chorus i think) when the pedal is on and im not playing. Is this normal for chorus pedals? (only chorus i ever owned) I am thinking of getting the TC Chorus (eric johnson), in the hopes that it won't have that problem (and it's true bypass and analog I think, which I prefer). Any and all advice appreciated, thanks for the help.

  • From: Florida, USA
  • Registered: 2008-06-04
  • Posts: 1,420

Re: True bypass, and tone suck

Ocean wrote:

It's very important to have at least one buffered pedal in your chain that is not true bypass.  If you run lots of cables, pedals, effects processors...the signal is having to travel through a lot of crap.  A buffered signal helps push the signal along so it does not get weaker. 

With all due respect, this is not always true.  A buffered signal does help push the signal along in some cases but just sticking a TS808 in the chain won't always work.  A buffer can be a good thing to have at the beginning of the pedal chain but the only way to have a consistent low Z signal through the chain after that is to have a buffer built into each pedal thereafter.  Otherwise, once you step on any TB pedal after that buffer, your signal is now being driven by the output  impedance of THAT pedal...NOT the buffer.  And likely, that pedal's output is larger than the buffer...considerably.

Just make sure your cables are high quality and go true bypass.  Chain them all together and don't worry about signal loss.  Chances are very good that you won't be disappointed.  Of course, that's just my take...

Hey man you'd know better than I!  I am not a wizard at this stuff, but from my research I always heard that it's not a bad thing to have a buffer somewhere in line to help move everything along.  It made sense to me, but yes I agree with everyone about the quality effects/cables/gear.  Using junk will result in a junk sound.  Your tone is only as good as it's weakest link.  Thats a big reason why I'm going (GASP) MIDI with all of my effects switching.  I really like the idea of having everything completely out of the signal path when not in use.  Add in the advantages of no tap dancing + flexability, it's a no brainer for me!  Can't wait to get my rig together!! cool

'67 and '74 Fender Twin Reverbs, '74 Marshall 1987 lead mkII, Metro Superlead 100. Pedals from TC Electronic, Ibanez, Dunlop, BK Butler, Electro-Harmonix, Fulltone, Maestro/Gibson, Loopmaster switching, VoodooLab, Boss. Gibson and Fender guitars, Dimarzio pickups.
  • Registered: 2009-10-27
  • Posts: 250

Re: True bypass, and tone suck

Chorus pedals are known to add a little noise, some more than others.  I've never used a TC Chorus, sorry I can't help - I use my Fulltone Mini DejaVibe, allows me to generate slight/light chorus tones among other things.

brandonmacey wrote:

Thanks everyone for input, great to have a forum like this with lots of knowlegable gearheads. I am going to look into the budwah, as it is true bypass and doesn't cost alot of money, I like that quality in a pedal, lol. Definitley agree with using as little pedals as possible, but I wouldn't consider my pedalboard crowded, I suspect it's the quality of my pedals.

Something I didn't mention in my original post is that my Chorus pedal has this extremly IRRITATING problem. It has a timed fuzz, white noise, crap sound, (moving at the rate of the chorus i think) when the pedal is on and im not playing. Is this normal for chorus pedals? (only chorus i ever owned) I am thinking of getting the TC Chorus (eric johnson), in the hopes that it won't have that problem (and it's true bypass and analog I think, which I prefer). Any and all advice appreciated, thanks for the help.