1 Topic by Michael Bott (edited by Michael Bott 2009-12-03 14:49:22)

  • From: Stratford-upon-Avon, UK
  • Registered: 2009-12-02
  • Posts: 15

Topic: Baffled!

I have known for a long time about Joe's live set up with the perspex baffle in front of the cabs - all makes sense. And I have been experiencing those problems that forever have you going back and forth to the amp(s) trying to balance the sound in rehearsal and live situations. There never seems to be a happy medium between good tone and bleeding ears, to put it bluntly.

A couple of nights ago I had the privilege of seeing Joe live at the Nottingham Concert Hall and was blown away by his mastery (of course), but also by the gorgeous tone and balance of his rig. So much so that I was moved to retire myself to the garage last night with a Stanley knife, saw (which didn't work) Gaffer Tape and a large piece of perspex.

This is the result:
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2527/415 … 23337c.jpg

Sorry about the quality of the image but you get the idea. That's a Roland Cube 60 and a Tiny Terror Combo - set up is Godin xTSA through custom switcher/looper which A/B's the signal to the TT on and off and loops in a Boss ME50 to the TT as required. The Boss has stereo out so one signal goes back to the switcher and the other goes straight to the Roland. In practice I hardly ever loop effects back to the TT - the TT just does the distortion. All effects always go to the clean channel on the Roland - the only way I was ever going to get delay while using a TT! (No effects loop).

WELL! All I can say is - I almost wept last night when I put the baffle in front of this little poor man's rig. The richness, clarity and full on tone - both chords and solo - was so close to what I heard from the great man on Monday night it was astonishing. I'm no way claiming that this is the way to go, but for someone on a budget, getting these kind of results made me very happy!

Now I just need to play better.

Michael Bott's Website

  • From: Edgewater, FL
  • Registered: 2007-12-08
  • Posts: 5,046

Re: Baffled!

Wow Shakespeare!  Well Done!  Kudos for working it out.  Ingenuity and work.  Work.  Work.

Respect
BigJeff

Rock On & Keep the FAITH
             It is
Blues From the Bottoms

bigjeffjones's Website

  • From: Florida, USA
  • Registered: 2008-06-04
  • Posts: 1,420

Re: Baffled!

When I built my first baffle it totally changed how I go about getting my tone.  IMO it's one of the most essential and useful tools to any instrument rig.

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  • amused
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  • Registered: 2009-11-08
  • Posts: 67

Re: Baffled!

Thank a lot Michael for your input about the plexi shield, you get me thinking about doing one of those baffle and try to get this sound, but i am not quiete sure i understand what i need to come close to that.

First i need 2 amps, right??

Let say i will have for the time being an egnater rebel 20 into a 2x12 cab, and i have a small vox VT15 that i am using right now.

What should i use to get this setting??

- a switcher to get my guitar signal into both amp, one with effect and the other without??? Is it all i need??

thanks

JBLP #214 very proud owner smile
  • ken
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  • From: Orlando, FL
  • Registered: 2007-05-28
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Re: Baffled!

Michael Bott wrote:

I have known for a long time about Joe's live set up with the perspex baffle in front of the cabs - all makes sense. And I have been experiencing those problems that forever have you going back and forth to the amp(s) trying to balance the sound in rehearsal and live situations. There never seems to be a happy medium between good tone and bleeding ears, to put it bluntly.

A couple of nights ago I had the privilege of seeing Joe live at the Nottingham Concert Hall and was blown away by his mastery (of course), but also by the gorgeous tone and balance of his rig. So much so that I was moved to retire myself to the garage last night with a Stanley knife, saw (which didn't work) Gaffer Tape and a large piece of perspex.

This is the result:
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2527/415 … 23337c.jpg

Sorry about the quality of the image but you get the idea. That's a Roland Cube 60 and a Tiny Terror Combo - set up is Godin xTSA through custom switcher/looper which A/B's the signal to the TT on and off and loops in a Boss ME50 to the TT as required. The Boss has stereo out so one signal goes back to the switcher and the other goes straight to the Roland. In practice I hardly ever loop effects back to the TT - the TT just does the distortion. All effects always go to the clean channel on the Roland - the only way I was ever going to get delay while using a TT! (No effects loop).

WELL! All I can say is - I almost wept last night when I put the baffle in front of this little poor man's rig. The richness, clarity and full on tone - both chords and solo - was so close to what I heard from the great man on Monday night it was astonishing. I'm no way claiming that this is the way to go, but for someone on a budget, getting these kind of results made me very happy!

Now I just need to play better.

Very nice job, a true JB rig on a budget! Congrats!

  • From: Detroit
  • Registered: 2006-06-02
  • Posts: 5,807

Re: Baffled!

did you get the plexig at lowes or home depot?
how much did you buy and what'd it cost?

that's not duct tape?

- Nic from Detroit... posting on JB's Forum since 6-2-2006
Ask me about my handwound Great Lakes Guitar Pickups
Since 2010, Bonamassa fans have taken advantage of my JB friend discount = my cost + shipping. cool
  • From: Stratford-upon-Avon, UK
  • Registered: 2009-12-02
  • Posts: 15

Re: Baffled!

amused wrote:

Thank a lot Michael for your input about the plexi shield, you get me thinking about doing one of those baffle and try to get this sound, but i am not quiete sure i understand what i need to come close to that.

First i need 2 amps, right??

Let say i will have for the time being an egnater rebel 20 into a 2x12 cab, and i have a small vox VT15 that i am using right now.

What should i use to get this setting??

- a switcher to get my guitar signal into both amp, one with effect and the other without??? Is it all i need??

thanks

Yeah - that's the idea. If you've got a little amp that does dirty real well - just leave it to get on with its job. ESPECIALLY if it hasn't got an effects loop. Interestingly, of course, the Egnater DOES have an effects loop and to be honest, if the Tiny Terror DID have an effects loop I probably would never have got round to thinking of having a two amp set up.

The thing is, if you're going to emulate JB's tone, or if you just prefer it, delay is a must. But if you've only got one amp doing dirty with no FX loop you are pretty well stuffed - unless you like a kind of weird, uncontrollable, mushy sort of delay!

The Tiny Terror is brilliant at what it does. But it just doesn't like FX. So, it just so happened that I had bought a Roland Cube 60 a few years ago but it had fallen into disuse and I had sold it to my son as a practice amp. Before the TT I had a Peavey ValveKing 100 Combo (OK but too loud - could never get it to sing at lower dbs). I was just about to sell this after getting the TT when I realised that I could use the Roland as a 'clean channel' for delay and FX in parallel with the TT. So for his birthday, my son got an upgrade to the Valveking and I took back the Roland!

To answer your question, I have no idea what settings would work with your hypothetical set up. But yes - I'm sure the VT15 would work as a clean channel. The thing is, if you had an Egnater WITH an FX loop would you really want to complicate matters to get stereo sound? JB uses more than one amp to get VARIETY and BALANCE more than to facilitate his FX. The truth is, I went for two amps for a different reason than JB , although I have to ask, if I hadn't had the example of his set up, would I have thought of it?

Cheers, Michael

Michael Bott's Website

  • From: Stratford-upon-Avon, UK
  • Registered: 2009-12-02
  • Posts: 15

Re: Baffled!

NPB_EST.1979 wrote:

did you get the plexig at lowes or home depot?
how much did you buy and what'd it cost?

that's not duct tape?

No, I was lucky enough to remember that I had a large piece hidden in the garage somewhere from years back.

One thing I will say is: measure up carefully for your own rig - and then find somewhere that'll cut it to size FOR you. It is not easy to cut - I took a bit of a chunk out of my thumb getting it to size - came close to not being able to hold a pick!

Yes, that is duct tape. No hinges, just duct tape. What a craftsman. roll

Michael Bott's Website

  • From: N.Wales, UK
  • Registered: 2009-03-06
  • Posts: 2,183

Re: Baffled!

I absolutely need to do this.

Anyone know how much I'm looking at to buy a couple of pieces to fit around a single 4x12?
I hear it's pretty pricey, yet the baffles already made are too much for me to import from the U.S...hmm hmm

I think I can find a couple of hinges pretty easily and drill it myself, but will it be good enough?

What was the website again with the baffles Joe uses?

Thanks.

  • From: Stratford-upon-Avon, UK
  • Registered: 2009-12-02
  • Posts: 15

Re: Baffled!

DaveWammbarro wrote:

I absolutely need to do this.

Anyone know how much I'm looking at to buy a couple of pieces to fit around a single 4x12?
I hear it's pretty pricey, yet the baffles already made are too much for me to import from the U.S...hmm hmm

I think I can find a couple of hinges pretty easily and drill it myself, but will it be good enough?

What was the website again with the baffles Joe uses?

Thanks.

I have had that piece of perspex or whatever it is so long I've forgotten its true provenance but I've an idea it may have been an offcut from a signwriter's business - in which case it was probably cheap. An avenue worth investigating.

Well - if my spectacular handiwork with the duct tape works, I don't think you're going to have a problem! big_smile

Michael Bott's Website

11 Reply by doc

  • doc
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  • Registered: 2009-10-19
  • Posts: 48

Re: Baffled!

cool

  • From: London, UK
  • Registered: 2008-07-27
  • Posts: 615

Re: Baffled!

Awesome! I made one with my woodwork teacher, and for my DSL401, it just lets it sing smile What an idea it is

Jamming with Joe and Bernie Marsden:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=18zqg3brNH8
  • Jesco
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  • From: The Netherlands
  • Registered: 2009-03-24
  • Posts: 43

Re: Baffled!

Maybe I'm wrong, but using a baffle allows you to turn up your amps volume (thus sounding better for a tube-amp), right? I figure it's only usefull to use a baffle when you mic the cabs into a PA-system. I find it hard to believe that (at home, no PA) my tone will be better with a baffle in front of my cabs.

  • From: Detroit
  • Registered: 2006-06-02
  • Posts: 5,807

Re: Baffled!

its true when there are people listening too.

Guitar speakers are "beamy" and people standing right in front of them during a gig only hear that guitar (pretty much) those are the people who yell "turn down the guitar!" If you baffle it, you can not only turn in it up, but the people standing in front of the amp will not be overwhelmed with the sound coming out of it.

- Nic from Detroit... posting on JB's Forum since 6-2-2006
Ask me about my handwound Great Lakes Guitar Pickups
Since 2010, Bonamassa fans have taken advantage of my JB friend discount = my cost + shipping. cool
  • From: N. Little Rock, AR.
  • Registered: 2007-03-02
  • Posts: 463

Re: Baffled!

So, you guys like the Baffles even when NOT mic'ing the Amp? I'm talking about at a gig, etc. Because I have been wanting to build some. And if they work live with an un-mic'd cab, that gives me even more reason to.

    I found a Plastics company here in town, and am going to go over to their factory and see what they have available, and if they'll sell it retail, to me. I will also see if they have the clear plastic (rubber?) "Hinges" like I've seen on the ClearSonic brand shields.
    If they do have the "Hinges", I will report back their contact info for you all.

    So, un-mic'd at a gig works well, too?

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  • From: Edgewater, FL
  • Registered: 2007-12-08
  • Posts: 5,046

Re: Baffled!

Budda wrote:

So, you guys like the Baffles even when NOT mic'ing the Amp? I'm talking about at a gig, etc. Because I have been wanting to build some. And if they work live with an un-mic'd cab, that gives me even more reason to.

    I found a Plastics company here in town, and am going to go over to their factory and see what they have available, and if they'll sell it retail, to me. I will also see if they have the clear plastic (rubber?) "Hinges" like I've seen on the ClearSonic brand shields.
    If they do have the "Hinges", I will report back their contact info for you all.

    So, un-mic'd at a gig works well, too?

Get the whammy woithout the death ray.  The insanity of micing amps in a club or small outdoor gig has always escaped me.  It is overkill and more egomaniacal BS.  The vocal mics will catch the bleed and you can record "live" without it.   Turn up the PA so we can hear vocals...

Rock On & Keep the FAITH
             It is
Blues From the Bottoms

bigjeffjones's Website

  • From: Detroit
  • Registered: 2006-06-02
  • Posts: 5,807

Re: Baffled!

bigjeffjones wrote:

The insanity of micing amps in a club or small outdoor gig has always escaped me.  It is overkill and more egomaniacal BS.

+1 What I cannot stand is when the drums are the loudest thing in a small venue and they are micing the DRUMS!? mad roll

- Nic from Detroit... posting on JB's Forum since 6-2-2006
Ask me about my handwound Great Lakes Guitar Pickups
Since 2010, Bonamassa fans have taken advantage of my JB friend discount = my cost + shipping. cool
  • From: Detroit
  • Registered: 2006-06-02
  • Posts: 5,807

Re: Baffled!

Budda wrote:

    So, un-mic'd at a gig works well, too?

works well, yes - because you can turn it up without piercing ears. It also reduces the chance of feedback.
You lose some of the high end IMO, but that is relative to what you are used to (i.e. standing directly in front of you amp at gigs).

I've seen people turn their amps around completely or even toss a blanket over them to filter some of the sound.

- Nic from Detroit... posting on JB's Forum since 6-2-2006
Ask me about my handwound Great Lakes Guitar Pickups
Since 2010, Bonamassa fans have taken advantage of my JB friend discount = my cost + shipping. cool