• From: Florida, USA
  • Registered: 2008-06-04
  • Posts: 1,420

Topic: Trouble guessing between Joe's 2 D-Style amps...

Is it just me or is it really getting hard to hear the difference between Joe's Two-Rock, Carol-Ann, and Van Weelden tones?  I recently watched the premierguitar.com demo and I'll be cursed because I couldn't hear any difference between the VW and CA!  Joe even jokes about them all "sounding the same" but "reacting differently".  I can ALWAYS pick out the "rude" Marshall Jubilee/Category 5 (or Bogner XTC) tone.

Problem is I really admire Joe's rig and have let it inspire my own tastes in gear.  I dunno if I can justify having 2 alternate amp settings that sound THAT similar though.  I have my eyes on a Two-Rock CRSV1 100w and am not sure if it would even be worth pulling the trigger on because of my Ceriatone HRM100.  So many choices...ahhhh!

'67 and '74 Fender Twin Reverbs, '74 Marshall 1987 lead mkII, Metro Superlead 100. Pedals from TC Electronic, Ibanez, Dunlop, BK Butler, Electro-Harmonix, Fulltone, Maestro/Gibson, Loopmaster switching, VoodooLab, Boss. Gibson and Fender guitars, Dimarzio pickups.
  • From: over yonder....in PA
  • Registered: 2009-02-09
  • Posts: 240

Re: Trouble guessing between Joe's 2 D-Style amps...

Currently, I couldn't see shelling out tons of money for an amp that sounds the same in a multi-amp setup....but Joe can pick out the nuances (spelled correctly?) of each of his amps and how they affect his tone. I think it stems back to Eric Johnson, who claims he can hear the difference between batteries, copper and gold plated cords, etc.

That being said, use his rig to inspire yours, but don't go for doing everything the same way or you may end up having spent loads of money for 4 amps that sound the same....haha. It also doesn't help that Joe has expensive tastes  tongue

"The way I like to look at it is....if that's the last time I ever got to play, I'd better give it everything I've got." -SRV
  • Registered: 2007-07-19
  • Posts: 22

Re: Trouble guessing between Joe's 2 D-Style amps...

The CRS v.1 is a great amp. I did have one. The reasons I don't anymore is because when I dialled in a nce and pleasing clean tone (which is VERY easy with the CRS), switching to the drive channel always made me wanne tweak the EQ. The other thing was that the drive channel was a tad to hi-fi sounding for me. I sold it for a Carol Ann Tucana. That has become my #1 amp. Gorgeous clean channel, a tiny bit more compressed than the CRS's clean, a rocking drive channel, and a "third channel" which is a boost with separate mastervolume. The clean and the drive channel has separate EQ, so I always have them dialled in the way I like. How do I best describe the tones? If course this is my opinion, but the clean does Fender well, and can have some spar / chime added using a toggle switch. The drive with the boost takes you from slight break - up to full on sustaining singing leads. If you took a late sixties Plexi and mated with a Dumble, the drive references should be in that ballpark.

The Tucana doesn't have built in reverb like the CRS, but its effects loop works wonderfully, and takes anything from the Boss RV-5 to boutique reverbs. I am actually getting a RV-5 for mine now.

But by all means, the CRS is a great amp. We all have different needs, at least ideas of out needs, so the above was just mine. I would also think that the Ceriatone would get you closer to the CRS than the Tucana.

  • Registered: 2009-02-10
  • Posts: 470

Re: Trouble guessing between Joe's 2 D-Style amps...

I wouldn't be so sure about buying the two rock either. Considering the price and the fact that you might not get much of a tone change at all.
All I'll say is, think of what else you could buy, and think of how tough it will be convincing a soundguy at a gig that you're wanting to use a multi-amp rig (didn't mean to rhyme...honest). You'll not get full use out of it sadly.

  • From: Florida, USA
  • Registered: 2008-06-04
  • Posts: 1,420

Re: Trouble guessing between Joe's 2 D-Style amps...

Jimi_lp wrote:

I wouldn't be so sure about buying the two rock either. Considering the price and the fact that you might not get much of a tone change at all.
All I'll say is, think of what else you could buy, and think of how tough it will be convincing a soundguy at a gig that you're wanting to use a multi-amp rig (didn't mean to rhyme...honest). You'll not get full use out of it sadly.

I just talked to a local soundguy today and it was a pretty enlightening experience.  I told him that most guitar players and soundmen are natural born enemies lol.  He laughed and understood what I meant...guitarists wanting to blow the roof off the place with their boutique 100 watters etc etc.  Well he said that the perfect thing is a DI output from the amp to the PA ala some of the Palmer stuff.  This really has me gassing for a few PDI-03's!

If I don't spring for the Two-Rock or it sells I will probably pick up a nice and cheap rack along with a few of those Palmers.  It would be a lot more cost effective and practical to try and not go "full Joe B".  As far as the multi amp thing they have devices that allow you to essentially group all of your outputs into a single or dual line to the PA.  The fact that I wouldn't need mics and cabs would make the soundmen a lot more happy!  I dunno, I have a lot of logistics to work out before doing anything.  I just wanted to see if anyone else has noticed how similar Joe's 2 other amp settings are.  Much more so IMO than the Plexi/Jubilee tone.

'67 and '74 Fender Twin Reverbs, '74 Marshall 1987 lead mkII, Metro Superlead 100. Pedals from TC Electronic, Ibanez, Dunlop, BK Butler, Electro-Harmonix, Fulltone, Maestro/Gibson, Loopmaster switching, VoodooLab, Boss. Gibson and Fender guitars, Dimarzio pickups.
  • Registered: 2008-03-07
  • Posts: 508

Re: Trouble guessing between Joe's 2 D-Style amps...

Hi
  I dont understand this DI to the PA that the sound guy talks about ? does this mean that the sound from tha amp goes directly to the PA . surely to get the true sound of the amp , you need to mic the speaker.? or do I mis-understand,

Justin the 2 rock would be nice  but I would be interested to hear the difference with your HRM and would it justify the extra money . Derek

"Everybody's entitled to my opinion. wink
  • From: Florida, USA
  • Registered: 2008-06-04
  • Posts: 1,420

Re: Trouble guessing between Joe's 2 D-Style amps...

SOFTMC wrote:

Hi
  I dont understand this DI to the PA that the sound guy talks about ? does this mean that the sound from tha amp goes directly to the PA . surely to get the true sound of the amp , you need to mic the speaker.? or do I mis-understand,

Justin the 2 rock would be nice  but I would be interested to hear the difference with your HRM and would it justify the extra money . Derek

Yes, if you check out the PD-I03 on the Palmer website it has a diagram that shows a signal path like this: Guitar--amplifier--Palmer PDI-03--mixing board/recording device/PA/etc.  According to the website and the diagram you don't need a speaker cabinet AT ALL!  That's VERY attractive to me because I'm lazy and hate lugging tons of heavy gear just to get great tone.  Joe states that for him, the Palmer gets him 90% of the way there compared to his cabs loaded with EV's.  90% is good enough for me especially if I could save my spine in the process!

Anyways, in regards to the Two-Rock vs. Ceriatone HRM thing I'm sure that they sound different enough.  From what I gather the CRS is not a HRM style amp at all and it also has included reverb.  If you believe in "mojo" and hi fi parts the Two-Rock ought to sound better, but that hasn't always been my experience with amps.  Sometimes those crappy 'ole PCB or overseas built amps just sound better (or at least as good).  I have always loved the sound of Two-Rock amps and the CRS been on my dream wishlist for a while now.  If I get the amplifier I will definately post some demos and comparisons with the the Ceriatone.  I bet they are closer than a lot of people would like to believe wink .

'67 and '74 Fender Twin Reverbs, '74 Marshall 1987 lead mkII, Metro Superlead 100. Pedals from TC Electronic, Ibanez, Dunlop, BK Butler, Electro-Harmonix, Fulltone, Maestro/Gibson, Loopmaster switching, VoodooLab, Boss. Gibson and Fender guitars, Dimarzio pickups.
  • Registered: 2007-09-30
  • Posts: 556

Re: Trouble guessing between Joe's 2 D-Style amps...

The CRS is all mids, no low end at all.  It can be overbearing at times.  Unless you are pairing it with an amp with good bottom its just ganna be a wall of midrange.  If you intend to play this at low volumes at all, like under 6 on the volume, don't buy the amp, just setting yourself up for dissappointment.  It's def. unique, and still close to the Fender/Dumble category.  It's my fav. amp for pairing, but when it has its bad days (or I do for that matter lol) it can be very frustrating.  You are prob. right in they are closer than some think.  I wouldn't be suprised.  Its all a matter of how you set it up.  No matter what amps I use in pairing, I seem to be able to make them sound however I want becuase it is a blend and not just one amp.  Your enticing a certain frequency to anther amp so you can really do it with 2 amps and a few pedals, but the more amps, the cooler it looks.

Ben

  • From: Florida, USA
  • Registered: 2008-06-04
  • Posts: 1,420

Re: Trouble guessing between Joe's 2 D-Style amps...

GoT MuLe 31788 wrote:

The CRS is all mids, no low end at all.  It can be overbearing at times.  Unless you are pairing it with an amp with good bottom its just ganna be a wall of midrange.  If you intend to play this at low volumes at all, like under 6 on the volume, don't buy the amp, just setting yourself up for dissappointment.  It's def. unique, and still close to the Fender/Dumble category.  It's my fav. amp for pairing, but when it has its bad days (or I do for that matter lol) it can be very frustrating.  You are prob. right in they are closer than some think.  I wouldn't be suprised.  Its all a matter of how you set it up.  No matter what amps I use in pairing, I seem to be able to make them sound however I want becuase it is a blend and not just one amp.  Your enticing a certain frequency to anther amp so you can really do it with 2 amps and a few pedals, but the more amps, the cooler it looks.

Ben

It's funny that so many Strat guys seem to love the CRS.  You can dial it in for that mid-scooped Fender thing but, especially on the overdrive channel, you get this big warm midrange that cuts through so nicely.  Great for Gibson guitars IMO.  I cannot think of another 100w amp that is Dumbley and has great reverb built in.  The CRS is perfect for that!  Ben, do you actually gig your whole rig?  I am just wondering if that is practical for anyone that isn't famous.  I am so torn on what to do with my rig right now...  Thanks!

'67 and '74 Fender Twin Reverbs, '74 Marshall 1987 lead mkII, Metro Superlead 100. Pedals from TC Electronic, Ibanez, Dunlop, BK Butler, Electro-Harmonix, Fulltone, Maestro/Gibson, Loopmaster switching, VoodooLab, Boss. Gibson and Fender guitars, Dimarzio pickups.
  • Registered: 2007-09-30
  • Posts: 556

Re: Trouble guessing between Joe's 2 D-Style amps...

cool

stratpaulguy86 wrote:
GoT MuLe 31788 wrote:

The CRS is all mids, no low end at all.  It can be overbearing at times.  Unless you are pairing it with an amp with good bottom its just ganna be a wall of midrange.  If you intend to play this at low volumes at all, like under 6 on the volume, don't buy the amp, just setting yourself up for dissappointment.  It's def. unique, and still close to the Fender/Dumble category.  It's my fav. amp for pairing, but when it has its bad days (or I do for that matter lol) it can be very frustrating.  You are prob. right in they are closer than some think.  I wouldn't be suprised.  Its all a matter of how you set it up.  No matter what amps I use in pairing, I seem to be able to make them sound however I want becuase it is a blend and not just one amp.  Your enticing a certain frequency to anther amp so you can really do it with 2 amps and a few pedals, but the more amps, the cooler it looks.

Ben

It's funny that so many Strat guys seem to love the CRS.  You can dial it in for that mid-scooped Fender thing but, especially on the overdrive channel, you get this big warm midrange that cuts through so nicely.  Great for Gibson guitars IMO.  I cannot think of another 100w amp that is Dumbley and has great reverb built in.  The CRS is perfect for that!  Ben, do you actually gig your whole rig?  I am just wondering if that is practical for anyone that isn't famous.  I am so torn on what to do with my rig right now...  Thanks!

No its not practical lol... but it looks cool, I can afford it, and I've lost my mind at the age of 21 big_smile .  If you walk into a bar with 2 100 watters, people are running for the hills lol.  Outside gigs, well thats different, and I haven't had one where I can bring the whole thing, yet.... haha.  Best advice is if you play it and like it, and can afford it, buy it, but if you are on the fence think about it.  If its meant to be, its meant to be and there is a ton of gear out there to buy with your money.  Hunt it down, its so much fun!

Ben

  • Registered: 2009-07-16
  • Posts: 105

Re: Trouble guessing between Joe's 2 D-Style amps...

I have played the 100 watt Carol Anne (6L6) and the CRS. I don't think they are anything alike. In fact they are quite different.

I got to spend some time with the Two Rocks at the LA Amp show. They are fairly varied in sound from amp to amp. A CRS V2 vs. a CRS are even different.

The comment about look at the Palmer is what is interesting here and would have a vastly different sound then you would via a mic'd set up.

I'm not really sure what you are after having read this now through and through. Fun to talk about though.