• From: Detroit
  • Registered: 2006-06-02
  • Posts: 5,807

Topic: Somebody else's rig

So here's a question... brand new.

I jam with this band every now and then. One of the guitar players (who has only been playing a couple years) has REAL feedback problems. All the time. I don't know what it is, and at the same time I don't want to shove my nose into his business. I just want the problem to go away.

He's running a new Gibson Les Paul Studio (wine red) with stock everything into a Boss Distortion pedal (orange) and into a Fender Hot Rod Deluxe (red with yellow grille) all stock.

Its getting to the point where if they do gigs you can't hear him and if you could it would feedback uncontrollably in between songs or quiet parts. I'm thinking it's the cables or the tubes? any input would be appreciated. Are pickups on a LP Studio wax potted? I can't seem to think of any other reason.

- Nic from Detroit... posting on JB's Forum since 6-2-2006
Ask me about my handwound Great Lakes Guitar Pickups
Since 2010, Bonamassa fans have taken advantage of my JB friend discount = my cost + shipping. cool
  • Registered: 2007-09-30
  • Posts: 556

Re: Somebody else's rig

An extremely microphonic pre-amp tube probably.

Ben

  • From: South England
  • Registered: 2009-04-23
  • Posts: 154

Re: Somebody else's rig

Has he fiddled about with his guitar in any way? I know its stock, but I mean has he taken bits off to see how they work etc?

Cos he could have broken the wax potting, or fudged the earth cable or something. Something in the back of my head is telling me pickups that are too close to the strings can give you grief, although I could be wrong on that one cos im not sure.

4 Reply by JohnTB (edited by JohnTB 2009-09-21 18:31:24)

  • From: Lancashire
  • Registered: 2008-02-26
  • Posts: 700

Re: Somebody else's rig

tap them preamps with a pencil see if they make any noise.... if its the Hotrod deluxe i've read something somewhere cant seem to remember where but it was about the distortion channel.. I'll try and find it

Edit:
http://studentweb.eku.edu/justin_holton … stors.html

here you go, I had some problems with a blues deluxe this site was invaluable for fixing smile

  • Registered: 2009-03-07
  • Posts: 74

Re: Somebody else's rig

It might be the Boss pedal, tell him to turn the level down and the amp volume up to compensate.  I use a Strat into a HRDx and when I used a Blues Driver it would feedback like crazy, turning down the level on the pedal worked.

  • From: N. Little Rock, AR.
  • Registered: 2007-03-02
  • Posts: 463

Re: Somebody else's rig

Yeah, it could be he has too much gain dialed in.

    Does it feed back when there is no pedal? That would help to determine if it's the amp.

    If his gain is past Noon on the amp, and also past Noon on the pedal, he may need to turn something down.

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  • From: Detroit
  • Registered: 2006-06-02
  • Posts: 5,807

Re: Somebody else's rig

He is running the clean channel and only using the Boss Distortion for drive. Gain is set but not used on the channel he is on.

I'll ask but I doubt he's fiddled with the pickups at all. I've played that guitar through other amps and unable to duplicate that problem. I've narrowed it down to the cables or amp... thinking its the amp.

- Nic from Detroit... posting on JB's Forum since 6-2-2006
Ask me about my handwound Great Lakes Guitar Pickups
Since 2010, Bonamassa fans have taken advantage of my JB friend discount = my cost + shipping. cool
  • Registered: 2008-10-02
  • Posts: 373

Re: Somebody else's rig

Sounds like a bad tube, but make sure he isn't running the gain on the pedal full on, that could cause the problem as well.

  • From: Florida, USA
  • Registered: 2008-06-04
  • Posts: 1,420

Re: Somebody else's rig

Hmm for the KOTB competition I used my Les Paul into a Fulldrive II (with lots of gain dialed in) into a broken down HRD with no noise issues.  I seriously doubt it's the guitar.  The Boss is an unlikely suspect but possible.  High quality cables are very important.  It could be bad tubes in the HRD or possibly something worse.

Whenever I have problems with my rig I plug my guitar straight into the amp without any effects.  Then if the problem persists I know it's either the guitar or amp.  I try a different guitar to isolate the problem..It shouldn't be hard to isolate the source, solving the problem is a totally different thing altogether.

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  • From: South England
  • Registered: 2009-04-23
  • Posts: 154

Re: Somebody else's rig

I've seen Boss Blues drivers make amps scream horribly too..

I seem to remember borrowing a Boss DS-1 years ago and having a bit of trouble controlling the noise! I was about 14 at the time though..

Having had a think I'm also inclined to count out the guitar itself now.

11 Reply by NPB_EST.1979 (edited by NPB_EST.1979 2009-09-23 16:31:05)

  • From: Detroit
  • Registered: 2006-06-02
  • Posts: 5,807

Re: Somebody else's rig

so i tested it last night... took the pedal out of the equation.

His LP Studio feedsback easier than the other guitars no matter what amp it's plugged into. We used mogami cables and others with the same effect. We plugged different guitars into the Fender HRD and it seems to feedback when its higher than two no matter what guitar is plugged into it, but it feeds back much faster and much easier when that LP is plugged into it.

If they are playing a gig on friday and don't have time to retube the preamp section, should he turn it around (amp facing the wall) or put some kind of board or  plexi glass (guitar case whatever) in front of the speaker? For gigs he has to keep his volume low and it doesn't cut through the mix at all.

I tapped the preamp tube with a pencil and two of them have a rubber coat around them preventing them from moving, and were quiet no matter how hard I tapped. The stand alone preamp tube make a noise consistent to my tapping but didn't freak out with shrilling or nasty sounds.

- Nic from Detroit... posting on JB's Forum since 6-2-2006
Ask me about my handwound Great Lakes Guitar Pickups
Since 2010, Bonamassa fans have taken advantage of my JB friend discount = my cost + shipping. cool

12 Reply by JohnTB (edited by JohnTB 2009-09-23 16:58:05)

  • From: Lancashire
  • Registered: 2008-02-26
  • Posts: 700

Re: Somebody else's rig

Swap the V1 preamp with the V2 see if the effect is the same.....

Seriously though have a read of this http://studentweb.eku.edu/justin_holton … stors.html the reverb tanks can sometimes be problematic too try turning the reverb off and seem if it still occurs

13 Reply by ken (edited by ken 2009-09-23 17:37:56)

  • ken
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  • From: Orlando, FL
  • Registered: 2007-05-28
  • Posts: 949

Re: Somebody else's rig

NPB_EST.1979 wrote:

so i tested it last night... took the pedal out of the equation.

His LP Studio feedsback easier than the other guitars no matter what amp it's plugged into. We used mogami cables and others with the same effect. We plugged different guitars into the Fender HRD and it seems to feedback when its higher than two no matter what guitar is plugged into it, but it feeds back much faster and much easier when that LP is plugged into it.

If they are playing a gig on friday and don't have time to retube the preamp section, should he turn it around (amp facing the wall) or put some kind of board or  plexi glass (guitar case whatever) in front of the speaker? For gigs he has to keep his volume low and it doesn't cut through the mix at all.

I tapped the preamp tube with a pencil and two of them have a rubber coat around them preventing them from moving, and were quiet no matter how hard I tapped. The stand alone preamp tube make a noise consistent to my tapping but didn't freak out with shrilling or nasty sounds.

Sounds like the combination of an amp that tends to feedback (maybe trying lower gain preamp tubes), and a guitar with unpotted (maybe crappy) pickups. Then throw in extra gain via the boss pedal, a player that doesn't know how to control his rig (maybe turn down volume knob on guitar, and only turn it up for solo), and your in feedback city. All or any combination of this could cause the dreaded squeal!
I don't think cables have anything to do with it.
I agree that the reverb tank also could be a culprit.

  • From: South England
  • Registered: 2009-04-23
  • Posts: 154

Re: Somebody else's rig

Havn't Gibson started doing what they call 'weight relief' on all their guitars now?

I think even the studio is chambered.. tried filling those spaces?

  • Registered: 2008-10-02
  • Posts: 373

Re: Somebody else's rig

I think its a combo of the preamp tubes, the pedal adding more gain and the guitar.

Try swaping the tubes like JohnTB said, set the pedal as a boost only so no gain, high volume for solos, and if he has a different guitar or can borrow one have him play a different guitar that night. See if there is any difference.

  • From: North Carolina
  • Registered: 2008-10-26
  • Posts: 2,926

Re: Somebody else's rig

If it truly was the gutiar couldn't you put a noise gate in front of it to control the feedback.  I have a hotrod deluxe and haven't had nothing like that happen.  Has it always done this?  How old is the amp?  One thing I've read is the HR deluxe can over heat easily if you have it up against a wall or have it cranked up loud with the bias turned up too high.  It might be possible he's fried something.  The Les Paul Studio has 490 and 498 pickups which are wax potted so it shouldn't be that bad, but also (in my opinion) those pickups are horrible and should be replaced with anything other then those pickups.  Have him take off the back pannel of the amp look for anything burnt.  Check the bias, if it is any turned up high turn it back.  If you don't have the tools to do it properly then turn it back and forth.  Find the middle on the bias pot and leave it there.  It might be a little lean or it might be hotter then he had but I doubt it.  Ask him first if he's tried to mess with the bias because I've heard that having that turned up too high will make it act weird too.  Tell him good luck with his gig for us and I hope you'll tell us how it went.

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  • Registered: 2007-09-30
  • Posts: 556

Re: Somebody else's rig

Don't just start turning the bias pot to find the middle.  Not a wise choice and could do damage.  I would check the tubes.  It sounds like a microphonic problem.  Just by looking at a Noisegate will kill your tone...  Also it being a combo amp and the tubes being in basically ground zero of the speakers, microphonic tubes will react more to the vibrations i.e. more hissing/screaching.

Ben

  • From: North Carolina
  • Registered: 2008-10-26
  • Posts: 2,926

Re: Somebody else's rig

The only way you'll hurt those tubes by messing with the bias is if your standby switch is turned on and somebodys playing it while its cranked.  I've dicked around with that thing for a couple of years and have yet to have a tube go to the bad.  If he doesn't have the tools to do it right he can set it in the middle.  If it helped at all he can then adjust the trem pot by ear turning it up or down ever so slightly.  Turn the standby switch to off so you can work on it, and only put one hand in amp at a time.  Theres no need to stick both hands in and get shocked.  You honestly won't hurt a thing turning that trem pot back and forth while being on standby.  If I'm wrong then the web site http://studentweb.eku.edu/justin_holton/ is wrong because I learned to do it myself from it.

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