Topic: Les Paul Traditional neck pickup

I finally bought a Gibson Les Paul Traditional. My first Les Paul and I'm very happy with it (nice light burst). The only issue I have is the neck pickup which I find rather too bassy and muffled, especially when overdriven. One of the reasons I went for the Traditional is the fact that it has 57 Classic pups. I have them in another guitar and I like them a lot, so I'm all the more surprised the neck pup sounds so muffled in my Les Paul. I played the guitar clean in the store and it sounds great with good resonance when played unplugged.
I've experimented with pickup height for almost two days now and I just don't get where I want to be. I started with the standard 1/16in and 3/32in height and no matter whether I set them closer to or further away from the strings I just don't get the tone I have in my head.
I assume the 57 Classic pup are machine-made, so they should all sound similar. Or are there differences in quality and tone?
What is the pickup height you Les Paul users have (measuring from the bottom of the string to the top of the pole piece with the string depressed at the last fret)? Are there any mods I could possibly do? I'd like to keep the guitar as it is, so I don't really want to change the pickup because I know the 57 Classic is (or should be) a good one.

Re: Les Paul Traditional neck pickup

What is the other guitar that you have the '57's in?  I find that Les Pauls are generally dark sounding anyways so whatever pickups that work in other guitars you may need to consider the extra warmth of a 'Paul.  If pickup heights/adjustments don't work then the other options are amp adjustments, wiring modifications, or a pickup swap unfortunately.  The way I get the most out of my Les Paul is to set the amp up around the neck pickup tone to where I'm happy and then switch to the bridge pickup.  It's usually a little brighter than I like so I just roll the tone off about 1/3 to 1/2 and it's perfect.  This works for me but it's worth experimenting with.  The type of tones I like for a reference are the tones that Gary Moore and Warren Haynes get out of the neck pickup.

'67 and '74 Fender Twin Reverbs, '74 Marshall 1987 lead mkII, Metro Superlead 100. Pedals from TC Electronic, Ibanez, Dunlop, BK Butler, Electro-Harmonix, Fulltone, Maestro/Gibson, Loopmaster switching, VoodooLab, Boss. Gibson and Fender guitars, Dimarzio pickups.

Re: Les Paul Traditional neck pickup

You could consider changing the magnet bar out on the pickup.  You currently have alnico II in a 57' Classic.  Its a lower powered magnet that produces warmth.  You could change the bar out for something a little more powerful and not really effect the power of the pickup just shape the tone a bit brighter then it currently is.  I have the same problem with my 57' classics.  all you got to do is remove the nickle plated cover of the neck pickup exposing the bobbins.  Next with a philips head screw driver remove the 4 screws in the back plate of the pickup.  You will also have to remove the 6 screws on the top of the bobbin that are the adjustable pole pieces.  Very carefully you should be able to wedge a flat head screw driver between the bobbins and the back plate.  the wax will make it a bit hard to pull the magnet bar out but you should bearly open the pickup up like I said earlier and be able to push the bar out with the flat head screw driver.  Be sure to mark how it came out so that if you don't like what you've done you can convert it back.  Just note left to right and top to bottom.  If you get any of the directions wrong you'll get a peter green out of phase sound when your between 2 pickups. 

So now you get a choice of what bar you want to replace it with.  http://www.wymoreguitars.com/Humbucker- … _c_60.html for 5 bucks you can buy a upgrade the sound to your liking.  I think you would want to stay in alnico style magnets just to keep it close to the bridge but really anything will work.  You might find that you will have a hard time figuring out how to position the magnet as they are not labeled.  There is no right or wrong way to do this but if you put the poles different from the other pickup you get the peter green sound I was talking about earlier.  You could buy a tester but if you remember that magenets attract when they are N and S you'll get the Peter Green sound.  When they push away (N TO N) your the same and the pickups will sound normal.  To test that you take the bar and place it over the other pickup if it pushes it away its normal if it pulls it in your out of phase and that makes the peter green sound.  I would just go up to a Alnico 3 or 4 as the higher up you go the more power the pickup will make.  You don't want to overpower the bridge pickup.  I hope this makes sense.

Re: Les Paul Traditional neck pickup

Thanks for the responses.
I'd rather stay with Alnico II because I'm not confident enough to tinker with pickups (I'm sure I'd screw things up) and, more importantly, I want some good vintage tone. Reference point to me is also Haynes and Moore (but not gainier than him) and of course all the great classics: Clapton's Beano tone, Green, Page, Allman, and of course JB. Of course there are differences in tone among them but you get the picture. The good stuff.
My other guitar with 57s is a SG 61 RI w/ Vibrola (basically the one Derek Trucks has). It is 100% stock and I get the most amazing tone out of the neck pickup. When overdriven I get sustain forever with fantastic harmonic overtones. Perfect for Santana for example. I get the sustain with my Les Paul but none of the overtones. None whatsoever. Just a bassy "Baaaaaaaah". It's driving me nuts. Of course, one could argue to swap between the Les Paul and the SG but I'd really like to turn my Les Paul into a great allrounder because it plays most comfortably and has the best neck of all my guitars.
Does any of you guys have experience with RS Guitarworks? I'm considering getting one of their vintage electronics upgrade kits: http://www.rsguitarworks.net/rsstore/pr … cts_id=392
Do you think there will be a discernible difference? I need some opinions before I fork out 100 bucks plus shipping to Europe and bloody VAT.

Re: Les Paul Traditional neck pickup

I think burstbuckers 1 and 2 get a better Clapton Beano sound personally.

Re: Les Paul Traditional neck pickup

I think I'll stick with the 57s for the time being because I know they're good pups and swapping them would really be the last resort.
I'm beginning to think that the problem might be the pots and caps where Gibson probably cut some corners. Does anyone know whether the Traditional has 300k or 500k pots?

Re: Les Paul Traditional neck pickup

gibson humbuckers as a rule are always 500k.  you could go to the 1 meg that would make it bright.  its cheaper to replace a cap.  have you tried just adjusting the pickup to be closer to the treble strings?

Re: Les Paul Traditional neck pickup

I think the Trad has 57 in neck and bb3 in back. i turn the neck pickup around in my LPs.Removes some bottom adds a lil mid to my ear (ala Peter Green).And Page,Green,Clapton,all the old school cats used handwound PAFs like Burst Buckers.And not for sure but arent 57s potted?I thought the 57/bb3 combo was a lil odd myself.

Re: Les Paul Traditional neck pickup

Well, I was told at the store it has 57 Classics in the neck and 57+ in the bridge. Apparently, it has 300k linear volume pots and 500k tone pots. I think I'll upgrade it with RS Guitarworks vintage kit:
http://www.rsguitarworks.net/rsstore/pr … cts_id=392 that means there will be 500k SuperPots which measure at least 520k (I was told).

My only complaint is the neck pickup which is not just dark but also muffled. On the other hand, I quite like the bridge pup. So my question is, will the 500k pot make the bridge pup suddenly too bright? After all, Gibson put 300k pots in there for a reason. Although, traditionally it used to be 500k.
So anyone is welcome to voice an opinion. If anyone has experience with the RS kits or exchanged 300k with 500k pots, please let me know how that worked and tell me whether the difference is dramatic.

Re: Les Paul Traditional neck pickup

Hi
   I had a faulty volume pot in my Gibson les paul LE which has burstbucker pro1,2 PU,s I had no issue with the sound of the guitar but wanted to upgrade the pots , so I bought CRS 500k pots and installed them. when I tried the guitar it sounded much brighter which worried me at first but after getting used to it if I roll the tone knob to 8 it gives me the equivalent of the sound I had . I dont know if gibson use 300ks to darken down some guitars or if it is for another reason ? also IMO the volume taper reacts more quickly now the guitar cleans up at 7 as opposed to about 4 on the old pots??

I have heard only good things about RS parts so dont think you can go wrong!!

"Everybody's entitled to my opinion. wink

Re: Les Paul Traditional neck pickup

why don't you just upgrade the volume on the neck pickup and leave the bridge alone.  RS Guitar works also has a kit that has a 300k volume for the bridge called something like the treble tamer.  That neck needs a 500k for sure though.  As for turning your pickup upside down like one guy said that doesn't work like peter greens pickups you still have to flip the magnet around as I said earlier to get that sound and it won't help you when the neck pickup is the only pickup selected.  Another quick fix is just take the cover off of the neck pickup.  Those nickle covers make them pretty tame.  Last 57' classics are wax potted, Burst Buckers 1,2, and 3 are not.  Burst bucker pro's are wax potted.  If it was me I would go with the rs kit and turn everything 500k.  You can always do like Joe Bonamassa when he uses his bridge pickup and turn the tone control down.  And if you hate it go back to the 300k that you had.  My Gut is your other guitars have 57' classics with 500k pots and you like the sound of those.... So make this one like those.

Re: Les Paul Traditional neck pickup

AD3THREE wrote:

If it was me I would go with the rs kit and turn everything 500k.  You can always do like Joe Bonamassa when he uses his bridge pickup and turn the tone control down.  And if you hate it go back to the 300k that you had.  My Gut is your other guitars have 57' classics with 500k pots and you like the sound of those.... So make this one like those.

That's the way to go. I'll order the kit later this week.

Re: Les Paul Traditional neck pickup

I was thinking about getting the RS kit to make my Goldtop Traditional more like Joe's LP and capture that vintage tone/vibe.  Let me know what you think of the kit and how much it changed your tone?

2009 Gibson Les Paul 1958 VOS (with black plastic)
2008 Gibson Les Paul Traditional Goldtop (with the cream plastic from the 58RI)
> Marshall Bluesbreaker 2 pedal >Boss sd-1> DD3 > Vox Ac15cc1

Re: Les Paul Traditional neck pickup

Will do for sure. It's going to take a couple of days, though. Order going through, shipping to Europe, customs, installing it... you get the picture. I guess 2-3 weeks. But I'll certainly post my impressions here on the forum.
I'm more and more intrigued why Gibson put in 300k pots in the Traditional. Could it be that buyers (who have the cash) will go for the more expensive VOS models when they compare them in music stores? "That Traditional plays really nice but it sounds a tad muffled and dark compared to that VOS 59 here. Alright then, I'll spend that extra 4K..."

Re: Les Paul Traditional neck pickup

Ok I just wanted to add that if you have the pickups 57' neck and burstbucker 3 in the bridge you have a Les paul traditional Pro instead of just a standard les paul traditional.  It will have Zebra strip pickups and no covers.

Re: Les Paul Traditional neck pickup

Nope, it's one exactly like this:

http://www.guitarvillage.co.uk/product- … +Inc.+Case

Re: Les Paul Traditional neck pickup

Bluesbreaker,

What is the neck like on your guitar? I am looking at buying one and I like the slim 60's neck and I have read these have the fat 50's neck but I also read a few reviews where they said the neck was inbetween. What do you think is it more fat or thin?

E

18 (edited by Bluesbreaker 2009-07-28 23:42:54)

Re: Les Paul Traditional neck pickup

The neck is fantastic and the main reason why I bought the guitar. I couldn't really tell you the difference between the different neck sizes (I suppose those on the 59 reissues are slimmer) but I can tell you I love this neck. I also have an SG 61RI which has a fairly slim neck. I definitely prefer the one of the LP Traditional. Chunky (in a good way) and plays like a dream. This guitar has the best playability of all my guitars. However if you prefer slim necks I guess you should try one first.