Topic: To boost or not to boost?!

Hey everyone, I'd like to pose a question thats been bothering me for some time now..

In a two guitar band, what is the best way to get your lead to cut through?

To give you my exact situation..

I'm running a JCM 900 (100w) through a 1960b cab, my pedal board consists of Dunlop Crybaby, Boss Noisegate, Boss Tuner, TS-9 Tube Screamer and Boss Digital Delay. I tend to run on the lead channel only on the JCM 900, winding down the volume on my guitar to clean it up.

Our other guitarist has one of those Vox Valvetronix things run thro a 2x12 Marshall cab I picked up on ebay from him (£100 bargain!) He runs a Vox wah, Boss Bluesdriver and Boss Tuner.

Somehow he always seems to be waay louder than me, even when im running around 6 or 7 on the Marshall.. which is deafening for practise!!!

Now.. I know I could use both channels and set a volume jump between the two, but I don't really want to do that. At the moment I'm trying to hover with my max volume higher than his, but only opening right up on the guitar volume when I want to cut through but its not really happening for me..

I was thinking maybe an EQ pedal with a db boost might help? Then I can choose which frequencies to push.. But my mate who knows quite a bit about pedals and stuff suggested an MXR Line Driver..

Im a bit confuzzled!! Whats your advice Bonamasses?

G

Re: To boost or not to boost?!

The neatest trick that I know for lead boosts are to use a passive volume pedal.  I use a Boss Volume pedal, no batteries required or anything.  It is stereo but they make mono ones too, and I just run it through the effects loops of my amps.  Now what I do is, set a volume minimum so when the pedal is backed off it's set at a certain volume.  Then when I want that extra volume for a solo or something just press the volume pedal forward and VOILA!  More volume when you need it without any overdrives, line boosters, eq's, etc.  If you would like I could probably do a demo of what I'm talking about.  Good luck!

'67 and '74 Fender Twin Reverbs, '74 Marshall 1987 lead mkII, Metro Superlead 100. Pedals from TC Electronic, Ibanez, Dunlop, BK Butler, Electro-Harmonix, Fulltone, Maestro/Gibson, Loopmaster switching, VoodooLab, Boss. Gibson and Fender guitars, Dimarzio pickups.

Re: To boost or not to boost?!

I know what you mean! Thats a pretty awesome trick!

...only trouble is my effects loop is busted... however I will be visiting Marshall soon.. thats a real option! Cheers man!

4 (edited by JohnTB 2009-07-02 13:54:12)

Re: To boost or not to boost?!

I play with the guitars volume alot for this, I set the amp to break up at around 8 on my strats then anything over 8 is a volume boost for me (AMP on loud, guitar volume quiet)... This has been working really well for me lately I've had quite abit of equipment bombing out so I've had to cope with just guitar > amp and no pedals. If im totally honest I'm actually enjoying it alot more its like theres nothing to complicate anything smile

Another thing that might be worth doing is messing with your eq a bit it might sound like crap by your self but when another guitar and bass are going it might fit in really well / cut through nicely.

You could also ask him to turn down a bit, I think the best bit of advice I've ever been given is to practise quietly it really makes a difference imo remember you only have 1 set of ears no point wasting them in practises smile

Re: To boost or not to boost?!

I do have a JCM 900 as you have and I use the lead channel for the heavier stuff. To get a solo boost I use my Marshall Blues Breaker II set to boost mode. This works very well for me.

-------------------------------------------------------
Gibson Les Paul Studio, PRS SE Custom Semi Holow, Epiphone Les Paul Custom, Ibanez RG370 BK
Marshall JVM 210H, Marshall JCM 900, Hughes&Kettner Statesman Dual EL34   
Blackstar HT Dual, Fulltone OCD, Dunlop Cry Baby, Marshall Blues Breaker, Boss GE 7

6 (edited by Big E 2009-07-02 19:29:42)

Re: To boost or not to boost?!

I have used a bunch of different methiods. I have tried the Overdrives in front of the amp and always felt they made the amp muddy sounding. I have done the EQ in the loop and it works great but you don't have a great amount of control. Case in point we have a few slower mellower songs I play clean and when I go for a solo and hit the EQ sometimes I was Riduclously louder than the band. I think the Volume pedal in the loop would be great I didn't know they made a passive volume pedal without a battery I would love a demo of that.

So far my best lead tone was at our last gig. I didn't use anything just had a great sound guy who turned me up from the house system during solos! IT was amazing. But sound guys like that are very very very very rare! HA

Re: To boost or not to boost?!

I found that sometimes when your both using the same guitar you tend to find your fighting for the same Frequency as the other guitar player.  Also how close are you standing to your amp to his when your playing, I used to think I was blowing the rest of my band away volume wise, then they had me step out to the middle of the floor away from my stuff and I found that you could barely hear me, so I had to turn up to those deafening volumes but I have to stay away from my amp as well.  I've also heard that cleaner sounds cut through a band better then the distorted sounds maybe thats what you might have to do is cut back on the distortion a bit, and brighten it up a tad.

8 (edited by Guitar_thrill 2009-07-03 16:06:52)

Re: To boost or not to boost?!

I totally agree with AD3THREE, I had the same problem, my other guitarist plays SG, and I play Les Paul...than I was using tubescreamer to somehow solve the problem, but since I bought strat, I dont have that problem, my solo always cuts through the mix so nicely, most of the time I just use volume control on guitar instead of pedals....but when I play some heavy blues stuff, and use Les Paul, then i use screamer as a boost....:)

Re: To boost or not to boost?!

Well, he plays a strat and I play an EVH.. so theres a difference in sound there.

At practise our amps are placed either side of the room facing in the same direction at the back wall.

I've already dialled down the gain and got my tone working for me.

Which leads me back to the original boosting question! I think maybe strats cut through because they sit in the upper ranges which from what I understand need less power to push than mids and lows, whereas my EVH definately occupies mid/low frequencies... thus after sorting tone etc leaves me thinking a boost is needed.

However my head does need new valves.. so I going to wait and see what difference that makes before I fork out cash!

Thanks for the replies guys, keep the suggestions rolling!

Re: To boost or not to boost?!

Here's a free one, no money out of pocket.  What if the other guitarist could just roll back the volume on his guitar and ease up a little when it's time for you to take your solo?  Seems like the curtious thing to do...its what I do when playing blues or whatever with another guitarist.  When playing rhythm I just ease up on my attack until I'm barely noticable and let the other guy do his thing.  Anyways, you should still get the loop fixed in the Marshall, and a volume pedal works perfectly for what you are describing.  Replacing tubes affects the overall sound more so than output in a lot of cases.

'67 and '74 Fender Twin Reverbs, '74 Marshall 1987 lead mkII, Metro Superlead 100. Pedals from TC Electronic, Ibanez, Dunlop, BK Butler, Electro-Harmonix, Fulltone, Maestro/Gibson, Loopmaster switching, VoodooLab, Boss. Gibson and Fender guitars, Dimarzio pickups.

Re: To boost or not to boost?!

Yeah he does roll back, but cos his amp is digital he cant get much variation... its either 'there' or it isnt, so its kinda up to me to cut through!

Im hoping that new valves will help me push the right frequencies a bit more! and the loop shall be repaired when it goes up to Marshall big_smile

Just doing my homework now so I can move on the options when my head comes back. Just hope it survives this weekend's round of gigging! haha

Re: To boost or not to boost?!

try this then you said you have a wah pedal.  Why don't you just turn it on to get the high pitched sounds of it going and see if that helps you cut through.  If it does then your right he's taking all the high range and you've got the low end.   but if your still not cutting through I'd say then you need to just consider turning your amp up louder and use your volume controll to controll it.  If your not to attached to the original parts to your EVH swap out your 500k pot or pots which ever one you got for a 1 meg.  It will make it much more bright and won't clean up the distortion as easy but it should let all the high end freq. bleed on through.

Re: To boost or not to boost?!

GregP wrote:

Yeah he does roll back, but cos his amp is digital he cant get much variation... its either 'there' or it isnt, so its kinda up to me to cut through!

Im hoping that new valves will help me push the right frequencies a bit more! and the loop shall be repaired when it goes up to Marshall big_smile

Just doing my homework now so I can move on the options when my head comes back. Just hope it survives this weekend's round of gigging! haha

The fact that your buddy is using digital/solid state to me seems to be the problem.  The lack of dynamics on his part is making you work twice as hard.  That sucks, it's hard to tell your buddy to get a different amp especially if he's happy with it.  In a perfect world you guys could both be playing tube amps with the same wattage rating so you can easily play off of each other without drowning out one another.  Also, is your JCM900 a 2 channel amp?  If so, you could probably use the clean side with a dirt pedal for rhythm tones and just crank the lead channel up for when you want to take a solo.  Let us know how everything works out when you get your Marshall back from the shop!

'67 and '74 Fender Twin Reverbs, '74 Marshall 1987 lead mkII, Metro Superlead 100. Pedals from TC Electronic, Ibanez, Dunlop, BK Butler, Electro-Harmonix, Fulltone, Maestro/Gibson, Loopmaster switching, VoodooLab, Boss. Gibson and Fender guitars, Dimarzio pickups.

Re: To boost or not to boost?!

I have played in a few bands with 2 guitarists and the big picture is the overall
sound  of the band is more important than 2 guitars fighting against one another
there is no point in taking a solo if its drowned out by another guitar , you should both
have a rhytme sound and a lead sound with volmes to compliment each other ,to
ensure each other sounds as best possible other wise its a loser for the audience and the band

"Everybody's entitled to my opinion. wink

Re: To boost or not to boost?!

To the OP, here's a video of me messing around with my volume pedal.  It's a little hard to tell sometimes the difference when the volume is backed off a little and full blast because of the Youtube compression and my camera trying to compensate for volume variances.  You should be able to get a general idea though.  It really works for getting that healthy dB boost without changing the sound or muddying up with more overdrive.  Enjoy! wink

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dM9piBRcCOM

'67 and '74 Fender Twin Reverbs, '74 Marshall 1987 lead mkII, Metro Superlead 100. Pedals from TC Electronic, Ibanez, Dunlop, BK Butler, Electro-Harmonix, Fulltone, Maestro/Gibson, Loopmaster switching, VoodooLab, Boss. Gibson and Fender guitars, Dimarzio pickups.

Re: To boost or not to boost?!

I think a great way to get lead bite through is to have two different sounding guitars. A LP and strat, a LP and a tele, mostly... a humbucker guitar and a single-coil one.  A tele's bridge pickup can really shear through a band's sound. I also have had great luck in the past with the Boss EQ pedal for a good treble/mid boost for solos only while using a LP or a thicker guitar that needs more bite. You just don't want to get into the habit of using it constantly (not just during leads for for the whole song) because it will spoil your ear and your tone. A wah pedal can do this too if you find the sweet spot and leave it there during solos. I recommend trying that especially if you already have a wah in your lineup. Many ways to do this.

- Nic from Detroit... posting on JB's Forum since 6-2-2006
Ask me about my handwound Great Lakes Guitar Pickups
Since 2010, Bonamassa fans have taken advantage of my JB friend discount = my cost + shipping. cool

Re: To boost or not to boost?!

Man great minds think a like!

I havn't had time to check the forum this weekend due to a hectic giggin schedule! However on my travels this week I did manage to borrow a Boss EQ pedal which I shall be plumbing in this evening at practise.

Also interestingly, I sat in with another band this week and the other guitarist had the same rig as me and I had absolutely no problem cutting through. That was x2 JCM 900's, one with an EVH the other with a Les Paul.

If anything I may actually have been a little too loud! roll

@Stratpaul thanks for posting the facetube link, im on filtered web access at the moment. I'll check it out later. I'm sure it's awesome as always!

I shall report back with my findings from this evening!

Re: To boost or not to boost?!

Well...depends on the song and the tone I am at. Basically, I use two OD's (or 1 OD and a clean boost) and my volume knobs.

I set one OD pretty clean and with a volume boost. If I need to get louder and moving my volume from 7 to 10 aint enough...

I set the other OD at unity, but with a little gain to thicken things up. When, for instance, I am in clean mode and the volume knob gets me loud enough but I want to throw some grease in the mix.

Volume knob is normally set to 7 to get my base tone. I know that if I go up from there, it will get louder and more distorted. It was hard to get past that, because I always loved the sound of the bridge pickup maxed out and set my sound up around that. Now, it's like kickin in the afterburner-you know you have more power at your fingertips if you need it.

I use the amp modes (clean/OD1/OD2) for my base tone and go from there. I switched from an Elmwood Modena to an Orange TV50 and recently to a Mesa Electadyne. Finally found out that I really need a very clean, crunch and lead sounds, and that the pedals allow me to fill any gaps between, even overlap a little at some points.