Topic: My BIG Gibson LP test on several models

Hey friends,

Yesterday was our families holy friday trip to Cologne. I had 2 hours of time in one of the biggest stores in Germany and I was "on the hunt" for a Gibson Les Paul.

The guy in the shop reserved a cabine only for me (he "smelled" cash...) and he placed a Bluesbraker Combo in there, because I told him I'd play a JTM45 and I want to test under familiar conditions.

Test 1: Historic Colleciton - 1957 GT / 1958 Plain Top
Both models were in the warehouse and it would have taken until late afternoon to get them. So I had to play a 1956 GT (P90) and a Warren Haynes Sig (based on the 1958 Plain Top). Both guitars were able to give me a very good impression of what the desired equivalent would be and sound like. The GT was great sounding, it had a nice weight, the craftmanship was excellent. Also the P90 did a decent job. BUT my friends, the neck is a killer. It's a baseball bat. I didn't really recognize it the last time I played the GT. Towards the 12th fret it becomes fatter and fatter. There's no air between your hand and the neck, like for e.g. with a Strat. Sure this contributes to the sound but for people with smaller hands this could become an issue. The WH 1958 PT had a slightly smaller neck, but still a fat neck. The Burstbuckers sounded awesome, imagining these pus in the GT....HEAVENLY sustain. But the craftmanship on the Warren Haynes was horrible!!!! Sharp frets, not perfectly mounted tuners and that for almost 4K€! The guy apologized and offered a price reduction. The sound of the 1958 was perfect though, long sustain and transparency on all pu postitions.

Test 2: Gibson Les Paul Traditional GT
I thought I have found what I was looking for. My wife suggested to buy this guitar immediately...I was happy...the guitar felt great, looked great, played great. These guitars are not weight releaved and the necks are plekd. It plays so wonderful on all poistions, all octaves sound in tune, this pleking really is the best thing you can do. Everything perfect until I took a look at the neck binding. This binding was so fat that it reached deep into the fretboard area. It looked ugly and it didn't feel right! The shop guy said *uuppps* and he said that almost all traditionals have such a fat binding. I personally couldn't have lived with it. Other than that, the guitar sounded very good, a little weak in the bridge position, could have used some more bass. But as I said, could have been mine with another binding work.

Test 3: Les Paul Standard (GT was in the a.m. warehouse so I took an Iced Tea model for reference)
This guitar is a feather. It's so light that it scared me something was wrong. The guy said all new Gibbies are that light. Poor Gibson, poor decision. This guitar was dead, no bass at all, what is this weight releave good for? If you want to play a LP you should be able to carry it. You can not get the LP sound without the weight. This Standard was "Poor Standard".

Test 4: Les Paul Studio/Worn Cherry Studio
The Quality is below ZERO! I do not know which material they use for the neck but it looked horrible. The entire guitar was drowning in paint. It was much lighter than my JV Strat and it really didn't sound good. The worn Cherry wasn't good either.

Test 5: Epiphone LP Standard
It's amazing which quality Epi has achieved with its new line. If you are on a budget looking for a great sounding, looking and playing LP don't hesitate to check an Epi. Forget about all the copies out there on the market. This Epi was awesome! Sure there's a difference between the Epi and the Traditional for example, but it's so close...

The whole testing showed me that we all should stop buying stuff from online shops without having tested the guitar in person. Pictures can not give an impression, big names are no guarantee.

Regarding the Gibson Les Paul, to be honest, there is no alternative to the Historics. You won't believe the sound, but for that sound you have to become good friend with a basball bat neck. Tough decision, imagine having to play such a monster all the time....I don't know....and the 60's slim taper Historic cost 2K€ more...not my price range. Anyways, there is a HUGE difference between Historic and everything else. The Historic gives you an idea of what were the reasons why Les Pauls became so big. It's amazing how this guitar covers all styles, it's wonderful how one guitar can be gentle and smooth on the one hand and agressive on the other hand. It's terryfying how big the quality differences are among the Traditional - Standard and Studio. No guitar that really kicked within this range. Epiphone though....excellent...they really took the heritage of a Gibson LP and implemented some of the spirit into their guitars. Nowadays, it seems that the Traditional is best choice if you find one with a good neck binding, I would prefer it over a Standard at all time.

My search is still not over, I have an offer for a 1993 Standard that sounds great, but I feel it has to be a GT in some way, so I wait for the next delivery of Historics. Maybe I can get used to the neck, we'll see.

Re: My BIG Gibson LP test on several models

Cool man. Historics FTW, I'll be buying an R8 soon

Re: My BIG Gibson LP test on several models

It's what I've been trying to say nicely the whole time without getting flamed! lol I went into my Les Paul adventure with the intention of a Classic, then decided eh why not a Standard with a beautiful flame top.  So after playing a TON of Classics and Standards I came to the conclusion that they all sounded good and played pretty good.  The looks would vary, some being superb examples.  That's all until I laid eyes on my first set of Historics.  They just looked like the real deal, felt like the real deal, and most importantly SOUNDED like the real deal.  I was shocked by the big necks at first.  You'll get over it quick when you realize you are holding the holy grail of guitars.  The tone does not get any better than a Historic Gibson, only different.  I would love a Goldtop R7, they go for less than the R8 used.

'67 and '74 Fender Twin Reverbs, '74 Marshall 1987 lead mkII, Metro Superlead 100. Pedals from TC Electronic, Ibanez, Dunlop, BK Butler, Electro-Harmonix, Fulltone, Maestro/Gibson, Loopmaster switching, VoodooLab, Boss. Gibson and Fender guitars, Dimarzio pickups.

4 (edited by NPB_EST.1979 2009-05-26 16:56:12)

Re: My BIG Gibson LP test on several models

That the thing when you start talking bursts... many people will take a crappy sounding burst with a killer flame top than a plain looking burst with a great sound. Like that blue sparkle LP, not the best looking, plus if it sounds bad - I can't image anyone buying that one...

Of the holy trilogy aspects of purchasing guitar, these are my top priorities.

1. feel (by far the most important to me, I feel I can change the sound slightly as long as it feels "right")
2. sound (if it sounds just amazing, sometimes I'm willing to compromise on the feel)
3. looks (by far the most deceiving quality of a guitar, sometimes fools you into thinking it feels good and sounds nice just because it looks good.)

I was going to mention brand as #4, but don't want to be a snob today. lol

I guess my point of posting this into this discussion is... I can really see why purchasing online is a big gamble. When feel is my most important thing, that is something I cannot do when purchasing online. Although I do believe MusiciansFriend has a 30 day satisfaction guarantee on their stuff, for what that's worth. I'd rather try before I buy.

- Nic from Detroit... posting on JB's Forum since 6-2-2006
Ask me about my handwound Great Lakes Guitar Pickups
Since 2010, Bonamassa fans have taken advantage of my JB friend discount = my cost + shipping. cool

Re: My BIG Gibson LP test on several models

Good post Jimi - yes the variation in options and sound of all the different LP models is amazing. It really does maake sense to play before you pay! Agree on a solid chunk of mahogany vs. the "relieved" ones.

I agree on the Epi LPs - very good craftmanship for little price. The biggest gripe I have with mine is the pickups but I hope to swap them out soon.

I also have a LP studio in wine red with gold hardware. Bought this one off the shelf at Guitar Center (big chain store in the USA - they offer good prices on Gibson's as they are part owner of Gibson). The 490R & 498T pups sound really nice. Plays very nice too.

Then there's the JBLP - has the thick neck on it too (will take some getting used to), but the Burstbuckers have a killer tone.

Anyhow good luck on your hunt!

Major Tom to ground control...

Re: My BIG Gibson LP test on several models

Great post Jimi. And what I especially liked was, there was no "this top was nicer than that top".
You based your review on the guitar's craftsmanship, playability and tone, very nice to see.
I agree completely about the Historics.
When I found my R7 it blew away everything I'd tried before it, regardless of the model.
I do have to disagree about the weight issue though. My R7 weighs 8.4 lbs, and rings loud acoustically. It has no issues about bottom tone and sustain is endless. My buddy has an R8 that weighs 9.2 lbs and while it is a very nice guitar it doesn't ring as loud acoustically or sound as good when amplified.
I've installed a lot of necks on guitars and found the neck itself, regardless of size has a big impact on the guitar's tone because it actually acts as a damper.
I shaved the neck on my historic down quite a bit to suit my hand better and it hasn't affected tone or sustain one bit. It is a lot more comfortable and playable though.
I also found a small pickup company in the US that makes phenominal humbuckers by hand using old methods and metals. When I tried my first set it was like someone took a blanket off my guitar and the sustain and tone is day and night from the BB's.

Regardless, it was great to see a review like yours, that showed "try before you buy", instead of the usual "if the top is nice grab it".
It shows that players are thinking about more than how many flame stripes their guitar has.

Re: My BIG Gibson LP test on several models

In regards to modding guitars...call me lazy but almost all of my guitars are 100% stock.  My R8 is completely stock, the Strat has only the bridge tone control mod, and my SG is stock minus some BB pickups (it was missing the pickups when I bought it).  When I buy a guitar I have to be certain that I'm 100% happy with it or pretty close.  I fell in love with the tone, playability, and feel of all of my guitars.  I also agree about the feel thing.  We are guitar PLAYERS, not guitar lookers!  Playablility and feel are the most important things.  Tone is a very close second though because some guitars are just unsavable as far as tone.  They just don't have the right wood density or are too heavy etc...Anyways continue the search and good luck finding the right guitar!

'67 and '74 Fender Twin Reverbs, '74 Marshall 1987 lead mkII, Metro Superlead 100. Pedals from TC Electronic, Ibanez, Dunlop, BK Butler, Electro-Harmonix, Fulltone, Maestro/Gibson, Loopmaster switching, VoodooLab, Boss. Gibson and Fender guitars, Dimarzio pickups.

Re: My BIG Gibson LP test on several models

stratpaulguy86 wrote:

In regards to modding guitars...call me lazy but almost all of my guitars are 100% stock.  My R8 is completely stock...

Lazy.

No, actually I admire you. Modding a guitar is part of the sickness when one wants to play around or accessorize. I think having a desire some diversity in a collection makes one mod different guitars in different ways. Pickups being the most common. One of my LP copies has P-94's in it, my Gibson Explorer has EMG's in it... you know to get some different tones than my stock '73 LP Custom. Although, even though my LP has the stock pickups I still had the Jimmy Page push/pulls installed back in '96... lol

The R8 sounds like it is good to go with no need for mods - that seems pretty straight forward! wink

- Nic from Detroit... posting on JB's Forum since 6-2-2006
Ask me about my handwound Great Lakes Guitar Pickups
Since 2010, Bonamassa fans have taken advantage of my JB friend discount = my cost + shipping. cool

Re: My BIG Gibson LP test on several models

As much as I hate the whole weight relief chambering thing. I did find this it makes me wonder about it, whether it could be a good thing sometimes.

http://www.gibson.com/en-us/Lifestyle/F … rdsEdKing/

Ed King talking about how his new chambered R8 is as good as his original 59! Claims that the chambering helped the tone as it is equivalent to an old piece of mahogany.

Re: My BIG Gibson LP test on several models

Chambering changes the tone, not necessarily for the worse or the better but it does change the tone. I don't see how chambering would be the equivalent to an old piece of wood. For all anyone knows, he could have ended up with an R8 that sounds great *despite of the chambering or perhaps because.

Re: My BIG Gibson LP test on several models

Hmm, I'm certainly no expert on vintage Les Pauls but to me there is a pretty big difference in the sound between a solid wood guitar and a chambered one.  Without the long, drawn out answer I will say this:  If you weigh a good example of a real '59 Les Paul you'll probably be in the 8lb-low 9lb range.  Most of the Custom Shop non chambered Les Pauls in my experience fall squarely in that range.  I think Gibson's wood selection is definately a lot more limited than it was back in the '50s, but the CS guitars get first dibs on that good aged wood.  As far as the electronics and stuff go...well that's a different story lol .

        -Justin

'67 and '74 Fender Twin Reverbs, '74 Marshall 1987 lead mkII, Metro Superlead 100. Pedals from TC Electronic, Ibanez, Dunlop, BK Butler, Electro-Harmonix, Fulltone, Maestro/Gibson, Loopmaster switching, VoodooLab, Boss. Gibson and Fender guitars, Dimarzio pickups.

Re: My BIG Gibson LP test on several models

Jimi_lp wrote:

As much as I hate the whole weight relief chambering thing. I did find this it makes me wonder about it, whether it could be a good thing sometimes.

http://www.gibson.com/en-us/Lifestyle/F … rdsEdKing/

Ed King talking about how his new chambered R8 is as good as his original 59! Claims that the chambering helped the tone as it is equivalent to an old piece of mahogany.

GREAT Article... even without the Fender jab big_smile uh-oh BONABAH! mad
Love hearing the old stories.
cool

- Nic from Detroit... posting on JB's Forum since 6-2-2006
Ask me about my handwound Great Lakes Guitar Pickups
Since 2010, Bonamassa fans have taken advantage of my JB friend discount = my cost + shipping. cool