1 Topic by daveschutt (edited by daveschutt 2008-10-28 07:59:38)

  • From: Charlotte, NC
  • Registered: 2008-10-24
  • Posts: 19

Topic: King of Tone pedal

I was curious if anyone has checked out this pedal.  There's seems to be a lot of hype along with a 2 yr wait or shell out 2x the money to get it on ebay.  But if it can get a good tone on a less than cranked amp it might be worth it I don't know.

I play in blues/classic rock band and I've just been suffereing the blues lately over my tone.  I play with two blue face Vox Valvetronix VTX 120's.  When the venue is big enough where I can crank up, use both amps, sort of like Joe's setup I'm a happy camper. But and thats a big BUT that doesn't happen very often so I"m suffereing trying to get a good sound with one amp at reasonable volume.  I had started recording ourselves with just a Zoom H4 and although I felt my sound was good at the time, the recordings made my guitar sound very thin.

I had been using just the onboard effects for ease of set up but I've now started getting my old pedals out of the closet, namely a tube screamer, eq, an DD-3. I really seem to suffer in venues where my stage volume is low and more is being pushed out the PA.  My amp has variable wattage settings so I tried dialing it down to the minimum so I can max out the Master. 

I did this the other night and was using 1 watt (it got 1, 14, 30, 60 watt per channel) but had to bump it up to 15 for the second set but then the volume difference from my tubescreamer jumped exponentially.  It was a bad night and I'm still bummed out.

"Chicago" Dave Schutt
Main Channel Band
Charlotte, NC

2 Reply by JohnTB (edited by JohnTB 2008-10-28 08:24:01)

  • From: Lancashire
  • Registered: 2008-02-26
  • Posts: 700

Re: King of Tone pedal

I went thru a stage like that m8y, try to stick with what you got / make the most of it....

I was using my blues deluxe (which is only 40w) but I was struggling with dif venue types big venues where I could crank was great.. Smaller venues I struggled keeping tone / low volumes.... that and being told to constantly turn down gets old fast, once a bar manager came up to me and said can u turn down its sounding like its distorted. After my initial shock I ended up turning my amp almost off and playing so low it was drowned out by people talking much to the bands dismay :x Wouldnt of been bothered cept I was using a small 15w practise amp at the time and it wasnt even fully cranked it was just at the point of break up which in my ears was a nice sound...

Moral is to get somet your comfy with, then perhaps with your band testing different volumes / finding settings that work :x GAS'ing for new gear doesnt always solve it :x

Oh and in question to the pedal, I can recommend a Fulltone '69 any day I love it to bits. Although I dont have a Pearl Drive the reviews I've seen and also the sound clips on his site are making it definately my next purchase...

http://www.oceanefx.com/

  • From: Ohio
  • Registered: 2007-09-10
  • Posts: 957

Re: King of Tone pedal

I just got on the list for the king of tone pedal. This is going to be a long two years...

Block inlay Gibson ES-335, 50th anniversary American Strat, '61 RI White SG, '62 RI Relic Strat, Replica Korina Flying V, Gold Tone Paul Beard Resonator,  '58 Les Paul RI, American Highway 1 Fender Strat, Breedlove Acoustic, Stonetree Joe Bonamassa Custom, HIWATT Lead 100R, Reeves Custom 30.

4 Reply by smolder (edited by smolder 2008-10-28 15:40:40)

  • From: virginia
  • Registered: 2008-10-21
  • Posts: 3

Re: King of Tone pedal

I have been on the list for about 9 months... we'll see. The demand is so high that I will buy it a gauge its worth. There doesn't seem to be any problem selling them if you don't like it.

Not sure there will ever be a pedal that overdrives like a cranked amp. I have started expanding my amp selection to account for various volumes (apartment living for guitar players is a new sort of h*ll) down to 5 watts - still can't play it much past 6. I did just acquire an Airbrake attenuater which helps a lot.. though my neighbors have yet to really reap the benefits.

  • From: Pittsburgh
  • Registered: 2008-05-22
  • Posts: 261

Re: King of Tone pedal

I use a 50 watt Fuchs ODS and whether I'm playing at my local Hard Rock Cafe or an outdoor venue for 75,0000 people my amp volume NEVER changes.  My master is on 2-3 (8-9  0clock) while the channel volumes are hot at around 2 oclock.  I have never been told I'm too loud or to turn up and I use a plexishield more to isolate my cab from the bass rig that's beside me and to reflect the sound up and around instead of straight out.  Sounds great.  You mix with the band onstage and let the FOH guy take care of the room.

A 2 year wait for a pedal???  I doubt anything is worth that...by then so many things can change.  Your style/technique, taste, gear, ears...

I pretty much quit using my pedal/switching system when I got the Fuchs but I do like a OD/Distortion pedal available if I decide on the fly to add something to my clean channel rack presets or if I want to kick the lead channel up a notch to make it more over the top.

I've tried all of my pedals and then some.  Modded TS9/808's, Fulltone, Zen Drive, Barber, Xotic.  Nothing works quite right.  The only pedal that sounds good is my old beat to Hell Boss OD/Dist.  The yellow one.  It sounds great.  Go figure.

I contacted Corby at OceanEFX about his Rockin' Horse pedal.  That might be something you're interested in.

Good luck!

DannyG's Website

  • From: Charlotte, NC
  • Registered: 2008-10-24
  • Posts: 19

Re: King of Tone pedal

Thanks everyone for you input.  It is very helpful.  One thing I've learned to in researching this issue is that I really need to go back and adjust all my pedals at volume around 85db to account for the Fletcher-Munson effect.  Which now I think was one of my main issues.  I had already dialed down my bass frequencies but I probably need to boost my mids and bring down the highs along with reverb and delay.  Danny what did you mean by FOH, I'm assuming somehow that means the House Sound Guy. In my case we're using our own PA and unfortunatley our board is on stage with us so it would be nice to have a snake to run it out in front and have someone with a good ear adjusting it on the fly but we're not at that point yet.

I should mention that bad gig we had was an outdoor venue which in the past had given me trouble because my stage volume is so much less than what is coming out of the mains.  It makes me feel like I'm playing in a bubble.  Then sometimes when I swith to a higher gain patch I become way too loud throug the PA.  I'm thinking I should get a SPL meter and really go through the patches to make sure they're all consistently at the same level.

Funny you should mention the yellow Boss OverDrive.  I've been looking at that vs. a regular orange DS-1 Analogman modded pedal with the mid-range adjustment.  Can you tell me a little about the yellow pedal and why you like it.  Strengths/Weaknesses  I definitely think I'd be better off using an external pedal for a little lead boost than switching patches.

Thanks much!

"Chicago" Dave Schutt
Main Channel Band
Charlotte, NC
  • From: Pittsburgh
  • Registered: 2008-05-22
  • Posts: 261

Re: King of Tone pedal

FOH does mean Front of house engineer.  Remember that even though OD or hi gain sounds may "sound " louder, clean setting always cut through the mix better.  I still haven't thought that out through yet as to why it does that.  I'm not familiar with the Fletcher-Muson effect.  What's that?

It's hard to mix the PA from stage.  I think once you get levels for each instrument set if you're all good musicians that "Listen" to each other you can pretty much mix yourselves.  For instance, turn down while the singer is singing, turn up for your solo etc.  That helps out alot...even if you have a sound man.

All the Keeley pedals are good.  So is the Analoge Man stuff.  I can't put any one reason why the old Boss sounds better than the boutique pedals do.  All the boutique pedals sound great through my Boogie.  With the Fuchs everything comes out smooth and compressed sounding.  The Boss maintains it's character.  Corby...Dude I'm waiting for an email response regarding the Rockin' Horse!!!

Effect wise-that's a tough call too.  It seems that a lot of times my sound sounds really wet to me meaning  A LOT of verb and or delay but when I hear recordings played back the effects are barely audible.  If they're too high then the sound gets washed out.
If you listen to Joe's samples on YouTube where he's sitting by himself going through his rig it sounds as if he has a ton of verb and delay on.  When you hear him live..not so much.

Anyway.  Good luck.

DannyG's Website

  • From: Charlotte, NC
  • Registered: 2008-10-24
  • Posts: 19

Re: King of Tone pedal

The Fletcher-Munson Effect relates to frequencies response to SPL or decibels.  Please understand I'm no expert at this just regurgitating stuff I've learned over the last few days in trying to get over my disgust for my tone the other night.

In a nutshell, ever dial in your amp/guitar tone only to have it sound like sh*t when you crank it up at a gig.  That's what these two dudes Fletcher and yes you guessed it, Munson, discovered at Bell Labs.  As the overall decibel is raised your high and low frequencies require less decibels to be heard.  Now this is based on the human ear and not pure scientific measurement.  That is why when listening to music or guitar at low volumes we naturally crank the bass and treble to bring those frequencies to the equal auditory level of the mids.  At lower decibels the nature our ears detect is like the sad face EQ so when we do a smile shaped EQ it more or less evens things out.

The magic sound level for evening out the frequencies our ears hear is 85db.  So it is suggested that if you can get a hold of a sound meter (Weighting A) to dial in your patches, tones, etc so that they balance out at 85db.  The mistake I made (and I'm sure I'm not alone) is getting all my tones/patches dialed in at a lower volume.  In my case it wasn't maybe halfway between quiet practice and gig volume.  So when you're EQ'd with a smile more or less and hit that 85db range or higher it pushes the lows and highs through the ceiling and sounds like sh*t.  Conversely once you get your tones dialed in at the higher volume and cut your volume back to reasonable limits you'll probably think it sounds too middy.

So from what I've read, you can pick up a decent SPL meter from R. Schack for about $50.  Hook up your amp raise the volume to you hit that approximate 85db.  Then with your EQ take samples from your low E on up and if you see any jumps in db's dial down that frequency, then check your signal with pedals adjust their level to stay in that range. Once you get that dialed tweak it to personal preference.  Like I said I'm no expert the information I paraphrased here came from at article here: http://www.vettaville.nl/page.php?id=104#576

Now this is a Joe Bonamassa forum first and foremost.  I am curious if any of this plays into how Joe get's such a full creamy sound.  I've seen him several times live and I've noticed that his sound is very balanced from lows to highs whether he's playing clean or dirty.  I always sit close on his side so I'm hearing his amps more than the PA and his stage volume is not overly loud either.  In fact when I saw him last in Charlotte, NC inside I was thinking, turn up a bit man! Though I do I like to feel it thumping me in the chest the rest of the crowd probably thought it was loud enough, LOL

Thanks for all the insight!

"Chicago" Dave Schutt
Main Channel Band
Charlotte, NC
  • Registered: 2007-09-30
  • Posts: 556

Re: King of Tone pedal

Wow that sounds like a load of it.  Dude I think you just had a bad night and weren't digging it.  Thats the begining of a slump.  Take a few days off and come back to it and everything will be fresh.  Don't even listen to your normal playlist.  Just crank it up.  Tweak things such as pickup hights, use your fingers, practice just playing slide in a different tuning, practice acoustic, etc....  Theres tons of ways to look at, but the best thing to do is a take a short brake from your normal set up.  Don't get to caught up in the science of it, its music and you play to enjoy it, not think about how to do it.  Just my .02. 

Ben

  • From: Lancashire
  • Registered: 2008-02-26
  • Posts: 700

Re: King of Tone pedal

GoT MuLe 31788 wrote:

Wow that sounds like a load of it.  Dude I think you just had a bad night and weren't digging it.  Thats the begining of a slump.  Take a few days off and come back to it and everything will be fresh.  Don't even listen to your normal playlist.  Just crank it up.  Tweak things such as pickup hights, use your fingers, practice just playing slide in a different tuning, practice acoustic, etc....  Theres tons of ways to look at, but the best thing to do is a take a short brake from your normal set up.  Don't get to caught up in the science of it, its music and you play to enjoy it, not think about how to do it.  Just my .02. 

Ben

IDD

  • Registered: 2007-11-04
  • Posts: 404

Re: King of Tone pedal

I had a Vox Valvetronix at one point.  I absolutly could not stand the sound I got either from a Tele of Les Paul.  It sounded tinny and metalic.  I had no luck trying to find a pedal that would make it any better.

I dont mean to rag on your gear but I would say this....If you are going to buy a 300-400 dollar pedal then buy yourself a decient little tube amp.  I love my Vox AC30.  They are 800 dollars new on the high side. That half the price of your King of Tone.  Fender makes Twins and Deluxes and Princetons also.  Then talk to Corby at Ocean Effects or check out Barber or Fulltone and get yourself a good overdrive pedal.

I would be really cautious about buying an expensive overdrive pedal and placing it in front of a modeling amp.  I've had bad experiences with that.

Good Luck.

12 Reply by daveschutt (edited by daveschutt 2008-10-30 10:47:17)

  • From: Charlotte, NC
  • Registered: 2008-10-24
  • Posts: 19

Re: King of Tone pedal

Thanks guys I appreciate the encouragment, and I'm feeling the need to pick up the ol' axe and give it a go.  Looking at my equipment, it looks sad and lonely and very apologetic, so it's time to move on, LOL  btw what does IDD mean?

Thanks jgalvan, you make a really good point.  I think I might check out a Boss SD-1 to start.  They're under a $100 and hopefully will make a good combo of effects with my TS9. Not necessarily together but as an alternative to the pure TS sound. Thoughts?

"Chicago" Dave Schutt
Main Channel Band
Charlotte, NC
  • From: Lancashire
  • Registered: 2008-02-26
  • Posts: 700

Re: King of Tone pedal

daveschutt wrote:

Thanks guys I appreciate the encouragment, and I'm feeling the need to pick up the ol' axe and give it a go.  Looking at my equipment, it looks sad and lonely and very apologetic, so it's time to move on, LOL  btw what does IDD mean?

Indeed smile

  • From: Pittsburgh
  • Registered: 2008-05-22
  • Posts: 261

Re: King of Tone pedal

I agree with Govtmule.  Sometimes taking a step away and taking a day or two off and then approaching things with fresh ears is the best way to go.  It always pays off in the studio.  I think I nail something or if I think something sounds crappy I come back in a day or two and it's not as good as I thought or not as bad.

I also agree with the tube amp/moddeling thing.  I use a POD XT live at a big church I play at:
www.pghlivemusic.ning.com/profile/dannyg

The Robben Ford song "The Brother" is actually the POD XT.  The other two are the Fuchs.

The POD doesn't sound that far off from the Fuchs...as Govtmule said alot of it is in your hands.

A good tube amp will always perform better, sound warmer  etc.

Nice thread.

DannyG's Website

  • Registered: 2007-07-19
  • Posts: 22

Re: King of Tone pedal

I tend to agree with most of the posters here. The King of Tone (I have version 4) is an awesome pedal, but it is not better than the weakest link in your chain. I would also suggest getting a decent tube amp as I don't think you'll have as much success with the KOT in front of a modeling amp.

As for the KOT, you basically get 2 pedals in one. With the internal dip switches, that is a lot of flexibility. It sounds great,  but like many OD pedals, they're designed to work best with tubes.

  • From: Atlanta
  • Registered: 2010-07-14
  • Posts: 24

Re: King of Tone pedal

You could also try a Sonic Maximizer to compensate for the F.M. effect.  These work great at every volume level but their effect is more prominent at lower volumes as they are compensating more.  As I understand it, the sonic maximizer concept is this: high frequencies travel at a different speed than low frequencies thus hitting your ears at two different points in time.  We tend to over-compensate with EQ to try to bring these two frequencies into alignment.  A Sonic Maximizer attempts to align the high and low frequency waves and send them out to your ears so they hit at the same time.  Many will describe this effect as "taking a blanket off your amp".  If overused, it can sound digital and over-processed but, used modestly and in an effects loop, it sounds pretty darn good especially at lower volumes.  BBE makes a good rack-mounted Sonic Maximizer and a pedal version, the Sonic Stomp.  There are a lot of haters out there towards the Sonic Stomp claiming you should just "buy a better amp" instead of trying to compensate with the pedal.  That argument always seemed a little short-sided to me.  In my mind, a better / different amp doesn't (a) solve the problem of different frequencies hitting your ears at different speeds and (b) potentially introduces a new set of problems with the new amp.  Most amps, cheap or high-end, sound better when cranked.

Metal guys tend to love the Sonic Maximizers because it does a great job of tightening and enhancing a high gain tone without the need to EQ the crap out of things.

Guitar: Schecter Solo 6 Limited (p90's), Fender Strat
Amp: Blues Deluxe Reissue, Fender Twin Reverb
Effects:  Morley Bad Horsie 2 Wah --> Korg Pitchblack --> BBE Soul Vibe -->  Ethos TLE--> Jetter GS3 --> MXR Carbon Copy