Topic: Musicians Input Needed!

I blame all this mess on Joe, Bogie and Mark!

I took my son to the Kansas City, MO concert this summer. We were standing right in front of Joe the whole concert. After the concert we got Joe's autograph and my son got to get his picture taken with Bogie at his drum set.

Now my son (12) wants to play the drums and the guitar. He has been playing the trumpet and baritone the past year and is quite good according to his music teacher. Musical ability is in the family genes, just not with the guitar. I want to encourage and support his musical endeavors as much as possible. My son was offered guitar lessons after school with several other students, for days a week for the next 10 weeks.

Question for all the guitar players and drummers on the message board: I want to purchase quality instruments, not top of the line ( I am not made of $$), but quality, that will allow him to produce a good sound and will allow him to expand upon the drum set / guitar. I do not mind purchasing used equipment in good condition, and see a lot advertised in the newspaper, but have no idea what is good quality, and I seem to get a different answer from different music stores. It seems they want to sell me what hasn't moved off their sales floor. Wonder why?! I don't want to be a sucker! My son is interested in plaing blues rock - yea!

1. Should my son start off with acoustic or electric and why? Recommended brands? Amps? My son seems to think he needs to start with electric because the sound is louder!

2. What about a quality drum set? What brands / models numbers of drums? What about cymbals and how many / which ones?


Sorry for the long post, but I figured you guys (not being sexist here) would have some answers / suggestions for me!

Thanks,
Rhonda smile

"I don't think obsessions have reasons, that's why they're obsessions....National Geographic likes their pictures in focus..." Robert Kincaid

Re: Musicians Input Needed!

Learning on acoustic will make him learn to play cleaner because there's no distortion or volume to hide behind, but let's face it, there are some things you can do with an electric that is so cool that is impossible to do with an acoustic (taking advantage of long sustained bends and whatnot).

"And in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make"

My ReverbNation page for Dees & Friends - check us out!
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Re: Musicians Input Needed!

Well, lets see: I do agree that starting off on an acoustic is the best thing, but that being said, it is much tougher to get to play guitar better on an acoustic.  As Deezer said, its much tougher to push down the strings on an electric, so that might be a detriment to his excitment about playing if he cannot get any notes to sound.  I, personally, would start him off on electric, especially if he is really into the whole blues-rock thing (like Joe).  It would just be much more fun for him if he could get the sound he's hearing comming out of the speakers.  Now, for brands... I would reccomend, for a nice electric a Fender Mexican Strat.  Those can be had for less than $400 and they sound great for the price.  They are of equal quality (in my opinion) to American made ones.  I got a Mexi Strat as my first "real" guitar and I still have it today and I still love it.  Once he gets more advanced, I would just suggest replacing the pickups, as they really aren't the best, but you really don't have to worry about that as he's just starting out. 


Now for amplifiers... If he is looking for a more distorted sound (aka J.B, Hendrix, etc.) then I would reccomend a Marshall MG30DFX(around $230.00).   That amp is well suited to a beginner because it is very portable, but it still has some useable sounds in it.  When he gets better and gets to gigging and is in a band, however, he will need to upgrade to a more powerful and bigger amp, but for now, this should be good enough.  If, on the other hand, he is looking for more of a SRV, KWS, etc. type sound, I would go with a Fender FM210R.  This is a little bigger than the Marshall, but it can get a really nice clean and distorted sound.  Again, it really isn't the best for gigging, but for practicing, it should suffice.

Hope this helps, and if you have any more questions, feel free to ask.

Scott

"Interestingly, according to modern astronomers, space is finite. This is a very comforting thought-- particularly for people who can never remember where they have left things." - Woody Allen

http://www.last.fm/user/skynyrd128

Re: Musicians Input Needed!

I very much disagree. I believe what ever inspired your son to play guitar is the instrument you should purchase. If you start your son on an acoustic and he is inspired to play an electric, you will be selling the acoustic within a month. They are two complete different instruments. It is like learning to ride a bicycle. The sooner your son can play a song or something that excites him musically the better. It is much easier and faster to learn on a electric guitar than an acoustic, plus it is alot more fun. Playing the instrument clean is technique and is taught by a teacher, it has nothing to do with the instrument being an electric or acoustic. Remember, when the kids are learning, it should be fun and inspiring, not painful and discouraging. Most low end to intermediate acoustic guitars play horrible and that is enough to discourage an experienced player let alone a youngster whose finger muscles are not developed. Let them have fun with the instrument and they will play for a long time. How do I know this ? I started Joe Bonamassa out on electric guitar and he hasn't looked back ! I hope this helps you. Thanks, Len Bonamassa

Re: Musicians Input Needed!

Len B wrote:

The sooner your son can play a song or something that excites him musically the better. It is much easier and faster to learn on a electric guitar than an acoustic, plus it is alot more fun.

I agree with Len, when I was about 9 years old my older sister was taking guitar. She had an acoustic guitar, although I could make interesting sounds with it I was totally discouraged by the difficulty I had fingering the frets.

I finally started taking it serious 30 years later. Now with 3 1/2 years of playing under my belt , I can't help wondering what would have happened if I was introduced to the electric guitar back then.

6 (edited by Angela 2006-09-12 13:36:30)

Re: Musicians Input Needed!

photogal-I am not a guitar player, but I have witnessed many kids around your son's age be sooooooooooo discouraged by attempting an acoustic first.  We have a couple extra electric guitars that were starters for my kids, so we loan them out to defeated acoustic players.  My hubby has turned around many a discouraged kid from the acoustic vantage point by showing them how to play an electric guitar.  A kid has to be excited to practice and when they are frustrated, they loose interest fast.  My boys both learned on an electric guitar first.  I'm assuming your son already knows how to read music. Personally, I also recommend, don't go the MELBAY route. (Lots of teachers like those books-kids take forever to advance, it's not meant for everyone when it comes to guitar!) 

I'm wondering what others think about this-Should a child this age jump in and learn tab or learn to read music?

StringsforaCURE~Helping cancer patients one STRING at a time.
http://stringsforacure.com/

Re: Musicians Input Needed!

Right on , Mr. B !

"I'm not nice to any guitar!"      lol
                 Joe Bonamassa 05-03-12

JBLP CHILD #184

Re: Musicians Input Needed!

Len B wrote:

I believe what ever inspired your son to play guitar is the instrument you should purchase...

Hard to argue with that logic!

9 (edited by daddy5strings 2006-09-12 14:24:42)

Re: Musicians Input Needed!

Find a local guitarist who teaches.
One who is into the sort of music your son likes as its no good ramming him with musical theorey, he's got to enjoy it.
This puts you without doubt down the electric route.
Ask the guitar teacher where to go,probably the local paper for adds, someone he knows who has given up, a local shop or the internet. ebay isnt too bad but really you need him to try the instrument to see if it meets his style weight and ability.
Generally you get what you pay for (the more expensive the better the action) but there are plenty of very good cheap guitars made in Korea from Fender Squire to Gibson copies, in my experience avoid the Chinese at the moment.Peavey do a good range of guitars & amps their 10 or 15watt practice amps are very good, they also do drums basses etc. Visit a dealer and check them out.
Dont get carried away with all the crap about effects,that comes after you've learnt to play, likewise the class gear.
Lets face it all the old black guys learnt on a plank with wires nailed to it.
Where there's a will there's a way.A word of warning.
Dont ask what me or my son play theres not enough space here.
How many guitars does a guitarist need ? Just one more.

"The blues had a baby and they called it Rock n Roll"
(Muddy Waters)

10 (edited by kwsjb1238 2006-09-12 14:57:23)

Re: Musicians Input Needed!

Len B wrote:

I very much disagree. I believe what ever inspired your son to play guitar is the instrument you should purchase. If you start your son on an acoustic and he is inspired to play an electric, you will be selling the acoustic within a month. They are two complete different instruments. It is like learning to ride a bicycle. The sooner your son can play a song or something that excites him musically the better. It is much easier and faster to learn on a electric guitar than an acoustic, plus it is alot more fun. Playing the instrument clean is technique and is taught by a teacher, it has nothing to do with the instrument being an electric or acoustic. Remember, when the kids are learning, it should be fun and inspiring, not painful and discouraging. Most low end to intermediate acoustic guitars play horrible and that is enough to discourage an experienced player let alone a youngster whose finger muscles are not developed. Let them have fun with the instrument and they will play for a long time. How do I know this ? I started Joe Bonamassa out on electric guitar and he hasn't looked back ! I hope this helps you. Thanks, Len Bonamassa

Very well said, Len (and by the way, you did an excellent service to the world by starting Joe on an electric... Just imagine where this world would be if none of us had ever heard of Joe.)

Also, about the tab/ reading music thing... It is definetly better to learn songs by just figuring them out with your ear.  However, when a new guitarist is just starting out, you need something to teach them what the notes are and what they sound like.  Get him lessons and let the teacher show him the guitar and everything about it, but encourage him to start figuring songs out by ear- it will help immensely in their future development as a guitar player.

Scott

"Interestingly, according to modern astronomers, space is finite. This is a very comforting thought-- particularly for people who can never remember where they have left things." - Woody Allen

http://www.last.fm/user/skynyrd128

Re: Musicians Input Needed!

I agree with Daddy B. Can't argue with the results huh? lol I started out on an electric, but I've found that playing the acoustic is much more difficult even as I gotten better, noticed I said better, not good.

"And in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make"

My ReverbNation page for Dees & Friends - check us out!
www.reverbnation.com/deesfriends

Re: Musicians Input Needed!

I totally agree with Joe B's daddy. I am not able to advise on drums, but I strongly suggest getting an electric guitar if that is what he is interested in. Considering his age, you might want to look at a MIM Fender Telecaster (made in mexico). The neck is a little narrower than the Strat and the quality is pretty good for a very reasonable price. Those list at around $347, but I bought one (wine red!) for $280 and love it.

Amp wise, I like the Fender G-DEC, which is a good practice amp that also provides a backing band. Not a gigging unit, but decent none the less. Those run about $270 new. As an alternative you might look at a Roland Cube. There are several different models including a battery powered unit. The Roland Cube 15 is $95 on Musicians Friend online.

You might want to check out something like this on Musicians Friend:

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/ … sku=518677

Nice setup for $199.

Whatever you do make sure he is having fun!

One more thought. If he likes blues/rock you could check out the instructional book called Blues You Can Use. It is pretty basic and is well written and gets you playing pretty quick. There is also a web page and the author is very responsive to questions etc.. IMHO.

Nothin' but the Blues

Re: Musicians Input Needed!

Cool question.  I had the exact same one several years ago.  I asked Joe Satriani this back then when he was on RockLine & he said DEAFinitely electric (I'm assuming for all the reasons mentioned in this thread).  When it came time to decide WHAT to get, I asked a very knowledgeable guitarist whose opinion I trusted, & after telling him what I would like to sound like (Gilmour/Montrose/Beck/SRV/etc.) he told me to get the Standard (Mexican) Strat.  Decent sound, decent price, good resale value, & easy to upgrade.  Once I finally was able to play some BASIC scales, I asked this person what kind of amp he'd recommend (in a certain price range I gave him) & he said the Marshall AVT50 (great sound & VERY loud).  When I looked around for prices I found MusiciansFriend to be the best (I didn't want to gamble on used because I didn't know how to play anything well enough to test them out, & didn't have access to anybody who could either).  Although I'm not a very good guitarist (I just improvise along with CDs using the blues scale in E, A, & B) this equipment makes me sound better than I really am.

BTW ~ Mr. B is DEAFinitely correct in that if they "have fun with the instrument... they will play for a long time."  If they don't enjoy practicing they probably won't practice.  I found that out after buying a decent keyboard for my kids, & now nobody plays it.  Guess I should have bought myself something for the guitar instead.  smile

L8r... John

"Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity"  unknown

Re: Musicians Input Needed!

For newer fans and itune downloaders that don't have the liner notes, Dad Len is a guest guitarist on "Trouble Waiting"-always thought that was cool!

Does anyone know what acoustic Joe is holding on the Blues Revue cover? I'm limited to headstock identification-vintage Martin possibly?

StringsforaCURE~Helping cancer patients one STRING at a time.
http://stringsforacure.com/

Re: Musicians Input Needed!

Angela wrote:

Dad Len is a guest guitarist on "Trouble Waiting"-always thought that was cool!

Hey, I didn't know that..... Very Cool!

Re: Musicians Input Needed!

As a guitar instructor for almost 10 years, I can say that I strongly encourage my students to learn on the type of instrument that inspired them to play in the first place.  As far as brands go, for my beginner electric students, I recommend an electric guitar called "Reynolds", found at a local store, Music-Go-Round--I think they are a chain store.  You can usually pick them up for under $120.  They are light-weight strat-body guitars that are inexpensive and they stay in tune nicely.  You will probably find name brand guitars like Fender or Ibanez that put out beginner models and guitar/amp packages, but in my opinion, the beginner models offered by namebrands are just not that great of quality and usually don't stay in tune, which can be very frusterating to a beginner.  I personally play American Fender Stratocasters--so I DO like namebrand guitars--but they can get costly.

If a student continues to play guitar and advance after a year or so, I recommend trading up or spending the money on a nicer guitar--it's great incentive, and their parents are not out a ton of money up front if the child decides guitar isn't for them.  Plus, when a student starts out, they may not know what type of body, neck or pickups they prefer on a guitar until they've been playing awhile.  This way they can pick out a guitar for their style of playing and the guitar's sound and playability--not just 'cause it looks cool.

I also recommend that you find a teacher that teaches a combination of standard notation (reading music) and tablature.  In my opinion they are both important.  Tablature is great for getting students playing what they like now, but I believe that reading music has great benefits long term.  I also teach my students dexterity exercises, practicing with metronome (drummer in a box), playing by ear and theory--only if they inquire or need it for Jazz band band in school. 

I hope this helps.  Good luck.

"There is nothing to it.  You only have to hit the right notes at the right time and the instrument plays itself."---Johann Sebastian Bach

17 (edited by NPB_EST.1979 2006-09-14 12:37:33)

Re: Musicians Input Needed!

Ok -

I would start him on an electric guitar.  They generally have slimmer necks - and lower actions (strings closer to teh frets)  for med. to smaller hands. Acoustics makes your fingertips hurt faster and people lose focus practicing when their chord looks correct but it sounds like not all the strings are making sound. Electrics are more novice friendly in my opinion.
Jay Turser sells decent LesPaul Copys on ebay; some even with a Serpent inlay. check out my thumbnail.  Epiphone makes an ok copy lespaul, and  of course there is Fender strat/tele guitars. Part of learning is building preferences too. As you get better, upgrades will always be on the sunrise, but will never forget your "first guitar" no matter what it is.

As far as drum sets, I would get him a $300 kit. whatever quality that is.  THe big money is in the symbols.  You could spend tons of money just on symbols. The cool thing about symbols is you surround your whole kit with the ones you have, where if you collect guitars you can only play one at a time. Getting a cheap/intermediate kit would also give him something to look forward to buying when he gets good enough to make it sound good.

- Nic from Detroit... posting on JB's Forum since 6-2-2006
Ask me about my handwound Great Lakes Guitar Pickups
Since 2010, Bonamassa fans have taken advantage of my JB friend discount = my cost + shipping. cool

Re: Musicians Input Needed!

Fretwork wrote:

I recommend an electric guitar called "Reynolds", found at a local store, Music-Go-Round--I think they are a chain store.

The name of the guitar I referred to in my previous post is actually called a "J. Reynolds"--if it matters . . .

"There is nothing to it.  You only have to hit the right notes at the right time and the instrument plays itself."---Johann Sebastian Bach