Topic: Picking Joe's Fast Descending Pentatonic Sequences

I've been tackling the fast descending pentatonics sequences (often fives) that Joe and Eric Johnson often employ and have been making good progress. I've been working on these using both hammer on/pull off technique as well as picking every note.

My question to Joe and to all of you you who might have this down already, is when you are picking these, do you use strict alternate picking or economy picking (sweeping with a down down or up up rather than down up down, etc when notes fall on adjacent strings)?

If economy picking, can you elaborate on whether you use an up up for the last two notes of every sequence and start with a down on the first note, or if you instead play the last and the first note with a down down. I've been experimenting with different techniques and was curious as to what others were doing.

Also, does anyone have any related licks or sequences that they'd be willing to share (tab, video, etc)?

Cheers,

Re: Picking Joe's Fast Descending Pentatonic Sequences

I don't know if this is very useful, but I put together a "hot licks extracts" of Joe series a while back from vids at the Baked Potato which have a lot of his fast picking shot from very close. Many different styles.
1, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwd5vL8fXTw
2, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlCZIKvp8kU
3. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1LPsBKeWpTw
Rick

Free download from Vienna! http://mbsy.co/bNLR
Lots of unique videos of Joe http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwd5vL8fXTw
Buy Joe's merchandise here. http://www.jbonamassa.com/affiliates/id … hp?id=1381

Re: Picking Joe's Fast Descending Pentatonic Sequences

Thanks Rick. Out of all the concerts, these informal types such as the Baked Potato are the ones I would most prefer to be a. These vid are really useful and enjoyable. Thanks for posting. big_smile big_smile big_smile

Come on the Blades (sorry Idolbone just had to borrow your line)

Re: Picking Joe's Fast Descending Pentatonic Sequences

PSmith1946 wrote:

Thanks Rick. Out of all the concerts, these informal types such as the Baked Potato are the ones I would most prefer to be a. These vid are really useful and enjoyable. Thanks for posting. big_smile big_smile big_smile

Totally agree!

Thanks Rick for putting these together!

Jim

5 (edited by RickB 2012-08-25 17:31:47)

Re: Picking Joe's Fast Descending Pentatonic Sequences

I'm glad these may be helpful. I put these together as a rebuttal to the trolls on TGP after that little brouhaha last year and they were eye openers to many and well received there. More than a thousand views in a week.

Thanks and get pickin'> there's some formidable work on these. Joe with his hair down so to speak. Just letting it fly. smile
Rick
edit: btw guys, that solo in  Spoonfull on #1 is the nastiest and most gritty I've ever heard.

Free download from Vienna! http://mbsy.co/bNLR
Lots of unique videos of Joe http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwd5vL8fXTw
Buy Joe's merchandise here. http://www.jbonamassa.com/affiliates/id … hp?id=1381

Re: Picking Joe's Fast Descending Pentatonic Sequences

And you said he was a using a Tweed and a Jim Kelly amp?  Tone to die for (yes, I know IT IS Joe, but killer sound!) 

I would not say I'm not very fast or "accurate" in my descending pentatonics, but I guess I use alternate picking.

Re: Picking Joe's Fast Descending Pentatonic Sequences

ill be honest man, do whatever works/feels/sounds best. Its good to have your technique at a place where you could do the same lick with each of those methods if you wanted (if your playing over an aggressive track then the rhythmic staccato of alternate picking might work best for THAT situation, etc). My only issue with focusing on playing licks with economy picking is that its too inconsistent, and if you want to improvise runs on the spot in a live situation, your gonna stumble with what direction to pick in, because you wont have played that specific run before.
At least with alternate picking, you can improvise picking runs all day because you dont have to think 'am i doing an upstroke into the next string here? or a down-stroke????'

Not to discourage you from economy picking (i used it myself), merely letting you know that just because its harder, doesnt make it better.

Good luck man, let us know how you get on wink

Me playing Joe's actual Ibanez Tubescreamer pedal - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76jk58_vl2s

Re: Picking Joe's Fast Descending Pentatonic Sequences

RickB wrote:

I don't know if this is very useful, but I put together a "hot licks extracts" of Joe series a while back from vids at the Baked Potato which have a lot of his fast picking shot from very close. Many different styles.
1, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwd5vL8fXTw
2, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlCZIKvp8kU
3. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1LPsBKeWpTw
Rick

THIS is PURE MAGIC!!!

Thank you SOOO MUCH for sharing these links!

Joe was ALREADY the MAN in my book... This just triple confirms it!

I would love to buy a whole album of this... Joe, if you're listening, PLEASE release something like this for your guitaraholic fans who are starving for this type of stuff! smile

Re: Picking Joe's Fast Descending Pentatonic Sequences

Zen Guitar wrote:
RickB wrote:

I don't know if this is very useful, but I put together a "hot licks extracts" of Joe series a while back from vids at the Baked Potato which have a lot of his fast picking shot from very close. Many different styles.
1, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwd5vL8fXTw
2, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlCZIKvp8kU
3. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1LPsBKeWpTw
Rick

THIS is PURE MAGIC!!!

Thank you SOOO MUCH for sharing these links!

Joe was ALREADY the MAN in my book... This just triple confirms it!

I would love to buy a whole album of this... Joe, if you're listening, PLEASE release something like this for your guitaraholic fans who are starving for this type of stuff! smile

There are hours of vids from the Baked Potato's Rock Candy Funk Party gigs on my channel, 5 sets in fact. The extracts are just some highlights. Enjoy Joe having fun with his LA homies and watch him play rhythm as the leads change as well.

Free download from Vienna! http://mbsy.co/bNLR
Lots of unique videos of Joe http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwd5vL8fXTw
Buy Joe's merchandise here. http://www.jbonamassa.com/affiliates/id … hp?id=1381

Re: Picking Joe's Fast Descending Pentatonic Sequences

Zen Guitar wrote:

I've been tackling the fast descending pentatonics sequences (often fives) that Joe and Eric Johnson often employ and have been making good progress. I've been working on these using both hammer on/pull off technique as well as picking every note.

My question to Joe and to all of you you who might have this down already, is when you are picking these, do you use strict alternate picking or economy picking (sweeping with a down down or up up rather than down up down, etc when notes fall on adjacent strings)?

If economy picking, can you elaborate on whether you use an up up for the last two notes of every sequence and start with a down on the first note, or if you instead play the last and the first note with a down down. I've been experimenting with different techniques and was curious as to what others were doing.

Also, does anyone have any related licks or sequences that they'd be willing to share (tab, video, etc)?

Cheers,

In groups of 5 (descending)the "economy" picking is better suited. Begin the sequence with a down stroke, then the 5th note in the group should share the same down stroke as the 1st note in the next group. Alternate pick all other notes. When you do the descending groups of 6 notes, alternate picking works best. When you get good enough to not even have to think of what you are doing, then you've got it.

Re: Picking Joe's Fast Descending Pentatonic Sequences

I've always used alternate picking for the Joe/Eric style pentatonic runs as they tend to fall within a box. When other runs move up/down the neck a bit more I fall towards a little more legato style.

Not everyones taste but Zakk Wylde has some instructional stuff on pentatonic exercises that pretty much built my foundations for this technique, very highly recommended (will try and dig them out).

Re: Picking Joe's Fast Descending Pentatonic Sequences

I grit my teeth and play real fast!! big_smile

Re: Picking Joe's Fast Descending Pentatonic Sequences

Just play your recordings backwards and slow the thing down and you'll discover both of those guys are playing the fiddle part to "Devil Went Down To Georgia" ;P

Re: Picking Joe's Fast Descending Pentatonic Sequences

AD3THREE wrote:

Just play your recordings backwards and slow the thing down and you'll discover both of those guys are playing the fiddle part to "Devil Went Down To Georgia" ;P

lol lol lol

Re: Picking Joe's Fast Descending Pentatonic Sequences

helrazr84 wrote:

In groups of 5 (descending)the "economy" picking is better suited. Begin the sequence with a down stroke, then the 5th note in the group should share the same down stroke as the 1st note in the next group. Alternate pick all other notes. When you do the descending groups of 6 notes, alternate picking works best. When you get good enough to not even have to think of what you are doing, then you've got it.

Thanks! This seems to the approach that I'm finding best so far. smile

Re: Picking Joe's Fast Descending Pentatonic Sequences

alex.p wrote:

Not everyones taste but Zakk Wylde has some instructional stuff on pentatonic exercises that pretty much built my foundations for this technique, very highly recommended (will try and dig them out).

That would be great! Thanks!

Re: Picking Joe's Fast Descending Pentatonic Sequences

The whole thing is on YouTube just search 'Zakk Wylde pentatonic hardcore' and its the hour long vid. He mostly just shows you licks & exercises then shreds whilst wearing a cool hat

Me playing Joe's actual Ibanez Tubescreamer pedal - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76jk58_vl2s

Re: Picking Joe's Fast Descending Pentatonic Sequences

frazerburns19 wrote:

ill be honest man, do whatever works/feels/sounds best. Its good to have your technique at a place where you could do the same lick with each of those methods if you wanted (if your playing over an aggressive track then the rhythmic staccato of alternate picking might work best for THAT situation, etc). My only issue with focusing on playing licks with economy picking is that its too inconsistent, and if you want to improvise runs on the spot in a live situation, your gonna stumble with what direction to pick in, because you wont have played that specific run before.
At least with alternate picking, you can improvise picking runs all day because you dont have to think 'am i doing an upstroke into the next string here? or a down-stroke????'

Not to discourage you from economy picking (i used it myself), merely letting you know that just because its harder, doesnt make it better.

Good luck man, let us know how you get on wink

I appreciate your thoughts here, Frazer!

Regarding economy picking... We are all wired a bit differently and seem to favor different approaches. For me, economy picking is not really a harder approach, just a different one. For some situations it seems to be an easier one and for others, not so much. wink  In terms of improvising using the technique, I hear what you're saying. However, for me it is just about getting things well enough underhand that I don't have to consciously think about the mechanics of it and just think about the sounds or notes I want. So, lots of meedley, meedley time to a click track ahead of time so that it works when I need it to.

What I'm really trying to consider before going into the woodshed with a new technique or run, etc, is will I be learning it the right way and not have to unlearn or retrain myself later. This is always harder than doing it right to begin with! LOL! What the "right way" is is, of course, subjective, but I try to consider things like economy of motion, the timbre (such as the staccato of alt picking or the legato of hammer on/pull of, such as you mentioned), how controllable it will be for me, how well I'll be able to accent the notes I want, and how I will be able to tie it in to other things that I do. So, a bit of thought before the work really commences. smile