• From: North Carolina
  • Registered: 2008-10-26
  • Posts: 2,926

Re: Gibson lawsuit issue at an end.

And how is having federal agents with fully automatic weapons pointing everywhere not hard for Gibson?  Its a tree not crystal meth.  That is one point.  The other point is why wouldn't the feds go after other guitar companies?  The shipments were NOT labeled wrong, they were legal, which now the feds are agreeing.  The issue was the Fret boards needed to be completed in India and not the USA.  Fret markers, bindings, and Frets themselves needed to be installed in India before they were shipped to the united states.  This issue and nothing else was the reason for the feds stepping in.  Gibson even has a 3rd party to make sure they were following the laws look at their shipments and tell them if they missed something.  So they are guilty of trying to keep American guitars made in America and not all over the world the rest of the world is doing.  They were trying to keep their own people gainfully employed.  Training a group of people in India to do these jobs will result in 3 things:  1)  Gibson loses 10 to 20 workers in the United States which is already out sourced most of its work to Mexico and China.  2)  Gibson loses its handle on the quality control department because now if they don't accept the work being done on their finger boards they have to send it back to get reworked.  3)  Any trade secrets they had are now being shared with an external source who will then share all these secrets with other manufactures.  I call it a loose loose for Gibson.  The laws in this situation are stupid and in 2013 maybe we'll see a lot of things change for the better.

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  • Registered: 2012-05-30
  • Posts: 485

Re: Gibson lawsuit issue at an end.

Gibson did have a 3rd party checking whether their imports were legal or not....and they were paying them a lage sum of money to do so...and that 3rd party was also the entity responsible for certifying the imports as legal or not....THAT is why "the feds" aren't going after Fender, PRS et al....none of those (as far as we know) has made illegal pay-offs to the company certifying their wood.

Also, trade secrets?? In fitting frets?? As for quality control - that doesn't seem to be an issue for PRS with their SE guitars or Vox Amplifiers with most of their amps... Just because someone isn't American, does not mean they cannot do a good job or that their quality control is somehow not able to be as high.

Guitars: Fender American Original 60s Strat, Fender American Vintage 52 Tele, Gibson Les Paul Traditional
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  • From: Windham ME
  • Registered: 2010-11-02
  • Posts: 256

Re: Gibson lawsuit issue at an end.

AD3THREE wrote:

And how is having federal agents with fully automatic weapons pointing everywhere not hard for Gibson?  Its a tree not crystal meth.  That is one point.  The other point is why wouldn't the feds go after other guitar companies?  The shipments were NOT labeled wrong, they were legal, which now the feds are agreeing.  The issue was the Fret boards needed to be completed in India and not the USA.  Fret markers, bindings, and Frets themselves needed to be installed in India before they were shipped to the united states.  This issue and nothing else was the reason for the feds stepping in.  Gibson even has a 3rd party to make sure they were following the laws look at their shipments and tell them if they missed something.  So they are guilty of trying to keep American guitars made in America and not all over the world the rest of the world is doing.  They were trying to keep their own people gainfully employed.  Training a group of people in India to do these jobs will result in 3 things:  1)  Gibson loses 10 to 20 workers in the United States which is already out sourced most of its work to Mexico and China.  2)  Gibson loses its handle on the quality control department because now if they don't accept the work being done on their finger boards they have to send it back to get reworked.  3)  Any trade secrets they had are now being shared with an external source who will then share all these secrets with other manufactures.  I call it a loose loose for Gibson.  The laws in this situation are stupid and in 2013 maybe we'll see a lot of things change for the better.

+1000

  • macg1
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  • From: St. Petersburg, FL
  • Registered: 2010-01-21
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Re: Gibson lawsuit issue at an end.

guitar_guy wrote:

i don't think gibson caved; they got caught breaking the law and couldn't prove otherwise. not sure why that's so hard to believe.  and that other companies are using rosewood doesn't mean that gibson didn't do anything wrong.  if i remember correctly, the gov's position was that gibson intentionally mislabeled shipments of rosewood in and effort to cover up what they were doing.  and if i remember correctly, their german source for wood is known to have issues w/ illegal exports.  i simply don't believe gibson was taken advantage of here.  also, these law exist for a reason and they're not stupid.  often times laws like these exists to slow down just how much wood can be sold and exported.  it helps preserve a natural resource and creates work for the people in the country exporting the wood. in that sense, i think the laws are necessary and good even if they make life slightly harder for gibson guitars.

finally someone who is not in denial about this.  when i was younger and i did something wrong and my parents caught me, i was taught accountability and responsibility by confessing my wrongdoing and apologizing.  if corporations are considered "legal people" they should be accountable and responsible.

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  • From: North Carolina
  • Registered: 2008-10-26
  • Posts: 2,926

Re: Gibson lawsuit issue at an end.

Guess it all depends on your political point of view.

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  • From: Windham ME
  • Registered: 2010-11-02
  • Posts: 256

Re: Gibson lawsuit issue at an end.

macg1 wrote:
guitar_guy wrote:

i don't think gibson caved; they got caught breaking the law and couldn't prove otherwise. not sure why that's so hard to believe.  and that other companies are using rosewood doesn't mean that gibson didn't do anything wrong.  if i remember correctly, the gov's position was that gibson intentionally mislabeled shipments of rosewood in and effort to cover up what they were doing.  and if i remember correctly, their german source for wood is known to have issues w/ illegal exports.  i simply don't believe gibson was taken advantage of here.  also, these law exist for a reason and they're not stupid.  often times laws like these exists to slow down just how much wood can be sold and exported.  it helps preserve a natural resource and creates work for the people in the country exporting the wood. in that sense, i think the laws are necessary and good even if they make life slightly harder for gibson guitars.

finally someone who is not in denial about this.  when i was younger and i did something wrong and my parents caught me, i was taught accountability and responsibility by confessing my wrongdoing and apologizing.  if corporations are considered "legal people" they should be accountable and responsible.

I have no problem with this if Gibson is as guilty as any other guitar maker who may be doing the same thing Gibson did. I DO have a problem with ANY government agency SINGLING OUT just one company, for polital reasons, and storming into their factory with guns drawn (REALLY?!?!?!). This kind of stuff has been happening more and more over the past few years. I too can't wait until November.

  • From: Detroit
  • Registered: 2006-06-02
  • Posts: 5,807

Re: Gibson lawsuit issue at an end.

yeah, then things are cracked down on, it should be across the board.

- Nic from Detroit... posting on JB's Forum since 6-2-2006
Ask me about my handwound Great Lakes Guitar Pickups
Since 2010, Bonamassa fans have taken advantage of my JB friend discount = my cost + shipping. cool
  • macg1
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  • From: St. Petersburg, FL
  • Registered: 2010-01-21
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Re: Gibson lawsuit issue at an end.

has anyone stopped to think that maybe the other companies are compliant?  i know it is a wild idea...  but that is why they pay me the big bucks.

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  • From: Detroit
  • Registered: 2006-06-02
  • Posts: 5,807

Re: Gibson lawsuit issue at an end.

macg1 wrote:

has anyone stopped to think that maybe the other companies are compliant?  i know it is a wild idea...  but that is why they pay me the big bucks.

+1

I don't see many companies offering ebony fretboards in standard runs of guitars. Although it would be logical to think that most guitar companies use similar or even the same competing suppliers.

I heard many guitar string manufacturers come out of the same factory. hmm

- Nic from Detroit... posting on JB's Forum since 6-2-2006
Ask me about my handwound Great Lakes Guitar Pickups
Since 2010, Bonamassa fans have taken advantage of my JB friend discount = my cost + shipping. cool
  • From: North Carolina
  • Registered: 2008-10-26
  • Posts: 2,926

Re: Gibson lawsuit issue at an end.

You mean to tell me they don't do inlays in their factories or frets or bindings?  Oh I got it they have a 100 year old stock pile of  rosewood just laying around.  Lets not forget fully automatic weapons in your face.  I don't give a damn if it was non compliant or not I'd be pissed and scared for my life.  Its more likely that lets remember all the other guitar companies in the USA were Democrat based groups except Gibson who contributed to the Republicans last election.  This I know is a sensitive issue on here but the facts are every one of these companies have the same dealers and its entirely possible that a political agenda was made to punish wealthy business men for not backing the current leaders of this country.  If you don't think this stuff happens your more blind then the rest of us.

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  • Registered: 2012-05-30
  • Posts: 485

Re: Gibson lawsuit issue at an end.

AD3THREE wrote:

Lets not forget fully automatic weapons in your face. 

Hey, you choose to live in a country where anyone can get a permit to carry a concealed firearm....

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  • jim m
  • jim m
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  • From: Okie City, OK
  • Registered: 2006-04-24
  • Posts: 3,429

Re: Gibson lawsuit issue at an end.

http://www.therightscoop.com/unbelievab … ettlement/

Here is an interview with Henry from Gibson. Excessive force is excessive force. There is something fishy about the whole thing.

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  • From: North Carolina
  • Registered: 2008-10-26
  • Posts: 2,926

Re: Gibson lawsuit issue at an end.

I had to be born somewhere, not really a choice.  Southern by the grace of God and a proud firearm owner.

Adrian J wrote:
AD3THREE wrote:

Lets not forget fully automatic weapons in your face. 

Hey, you choose to live in a country where anyone can get a permit to carry a concealed firearm....

AD3THREE's Website

  • From: Windham ME
  • Registered: 2010-11-02
  • Posts: 256

Re: Gibson lawsuit issue at an end.

Adrian J wrote:
AD3THREE wrote:

Lets not forget fully automatic weapons in your face. 

Hey, you choose to live in a country where anyone can get a permit to carry a concealed firearm....

Not "anyone" can get a CCW. You may want to check your facts before making broad statements like this.  Most "progressive" cities (NYC, Chicago, DC, New Orleans) have tough gun laws yet they have the highest murder rates in the country. I wonder why.

Yes, I own a gun and so do most of my friends and neighbors. Maybe that why our violent crime rates here are practically non-existant.

  • From: Detroit
  • Registered: 2006-06-02
  • Posts: 5,807

Re: Gibson lawsuit issue at an end.

me too, but that's off topic.

I think what the difference is, was that IF other guitar companies WERE in violation, nobody taddled on them because they have loyal employees? Or they couldn't provide proof in any way to justify a warrant to search the other guitar companies. It's all what you can prove.

I'm willing to doubt it was a conspiracy by democrats to take down a right-leaning company. If anyone could prove that was actually the case, I also wouldn't be surprised. Strongly political people are always pointing fingers and blaming. I wish they would just be positive about themselves. But I'm willing to doubt partisianship is what motivated the federal search and seizure.

- Nic from Detroit... posting on JB's Forum since 6-2-2006
Ask me about my handwound Great Lakes Guitar Pickups
Since 2010, Bonamassa fans have taken advantage of my JB friend discount = my cost + shipping. cool
  • Registered: 2012-05-30
  • Posts: 485

Re: Gibson lawsuit issue at an end.

bonawho59 wrote:
Adrian J wrote:
AD3THREE wrote:

Lets not forget fully automatic weapons in your face. 

Hey, you choose to live in a country where anyone can get a permit to carry a concealed firearm....

Not "anyone" can get a CCW. You may want to check your facts before making broad statements like this.  Most "progressive" cities (NYC, Chicago, DC, New Orleans) have tough gun laws yet they have the highest murder rates in the country. I wonder why.

Yes, I own a gun and so do most of my friends and neighbors. Maybe that why our violent crime rates here are practically non-existant.

And yet our gun crime rates are even lower.....

Guitars: Fender American Original 60s Strat, Fender American Vintage 52 Tele, Gibson Les Paul Traditional
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  • Registered: 2012-05-30
  • Posts: 485

Re: Gibson lawsuit issue at an end.

NPB_EST.1979 wrote:

me too, but that's off topic.

I think what the difference is, was that IF other guitar companies WERE in violation, nobody taddled on them because they have loyal employees? Or they couldn't provide proof in any way to justify a warrant to search the other guitar companies. It's all what you can prove.

I'm willing to doubt it was a conspiracy by democrats to take down a right-leaning company. If anyone could prove that was actually the case, I also wouldn't be surprised. Strongly political people are always pointing fingers and blaming. I wish they would just be positive about themselves. But I'm willing to doubt partisianship is what motivated the federal search and seizure.

Aren't I also right in thinking that the Republicans have control of the House or Senate (or both?)

Guitars: Fender American Original 60s Strat, Fender American Vintage 52 Tele, Gibson Les Paul Traditional
FX: Various including - Ceriatone Centura, Fire Custom Shop Carpe Diem
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  • From: North Carolina
  • Registered: 2008-10-26
  • Posts: 2,926

Re: Gibson lawsuit issue at an end.

Hang it up bro were not even talking about guitars anymore, which is the only reason I come to this forum.

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