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Joe Bonamassa Forum → Joe's Guitars, Amps and Gear → kidney grovers dont fit!!!!!!!!!!!!
i have been wanting to change my gibson 58 vos tuners , so i bought some kidney style usa ones , like joe i find them better for holding tunning and it changes the sound a little , so i get them home go to fit them then.......... they dont fit they are too big for the hole. any advise would be great as i was really excited about doing this 
steve
Yeah you got to drill them to 3/8ths I think is the number. My classic had the same problem, they don't come in a different size, but after you drill you can buy inserts that are the right size for the hole you just drilled so you can go back to original hardware without somebody wanting a discount on your Les Paul should you decide to sell it. Its a vaild upgrade and I think if it was me I wouldn't hesitate to do the job... Make sure if you do it your self to use a drill press, DO NOT USE A HAND DRILL OR YOU WILL SCREW UP! Also bring a buddy with you because they are heavy les pauls so you want someone holding the body still while the other is operating the drill press. If your not comfortable doing this have a tech do it. The screw holes already drilled in the back of the head stock will match up on the tuner (the bottom hole that is, the top doesn't have a hole in the tuner machine head) So 6 big holes is all you need, but double check the instruction because I might be telling you wrong I think Metric is what they give you 4.111mm maybe I did it so long ago I don't remember. But I've done this twice now and the first one was on a cheap acoustic guitar after doing that with the hand drill I did the les paul the right way. Hand drill will work if you don't care for it to look good and want the vaneer on the head stock to crack apart. My acoustic isn't worth $100 but I was still pissed.
I have a set of gold Grovers on an Ibanez acoustic that I was gonna swap since I wouldn't have to buy a set but then I found out the hole was too small so I didn't want to alter the guitar just for tuners. I didn't know if it would be much of a tonal difference? I also did see recently that you can get sleeves to put in the holes to use the original tuners again, but would that now change the tone since the tuners wouldn't be directly inserted into the wood? -S
I finally ordered the upgrade wiring kit from RS guitars, so that will hopefully add some coolness to my guitar's sound. Gonna hold off on pickups for now, just incase. Whats the improvement with Grovers??
It's very hard to make the small hole bigger without messing it up. Be careful. 
It's very hard to make the small hole bigger without messing it up. Be careful.
A tapered ream and small rat tailed file would be safer and slower. Just don't be in a hurry.
I excelled in Woodshop back in high school but I don't have a drill press, so I won't be trying it! I don't see the point really, I doubt it will make much of a difference. If they fit in without any customizing, I'd try it out for the heck of it. -S
RickB is right. A good sharp tapered reamer will do nicely. Just take your time, don't rush and don't make the hole too big, or leave the hole to small. If you force them in you'll split the headstock. When it's done you'll hear the improvement.
Good Luck!
I personally like that they are closed and never need oiling again. They have better higher quality gears so it makes tuning better (but also takes more turns to the key to get the post around 360º's) I've heard some people say they add weight to the head stock and that it adds sustain.
If you do it and decide you want go back they do make the push buttons that fit the holes in the larger size, they will not effect tone at all IMHO. Its not dishonest to do and sell the thing as original in unless someone pops the ferrules out of the head stock to install grover in the guitar after you sell it they will never know. My advice is if you want it don't worry about it. Its a common change that will not hurt the price of your instrument at all. I sold a my Les Paul Classic last year for $1200 I had really beat that guitar to death and it was in bad shape finish wise but the thing played like butter, so I added a Youtube video on the sale and it got a ton of hits saying how good my old guitar sounded and I should do more videos blah blah blah. The point is do what you like and leave the rest alone. Enjoy the Les Paul and go for the Grovers you won't regret it.
Joe Bonamassa Forum → Joe's Guitars, Amps and Gear → kidney grovers dont fit!!!!!!!!!!!!
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