Topic: General Gear Question

I have a Marshall TSL 100 re-tubed with Sovtek KT77's and I just can't get that warm, rich, punchy (ZZ Topish, Joe Bonamassa) tone that would be just perfect for Classic/Southern Rock and Blues.  Any suggestions on how I could go about that?  I am beginning to think that it's not possible with a Brit rock amp but I thought I'd try here.  I've also been checking out the Carol Ann amps, they seem like they might do the job.  And I would like to check out some Van Weelden's but I can't find any.  Does anyone know where I could go either in person or online to get some more info?  Plz help.  Bryan

Re: General Gear Question

I personally have no experiences with the TSL100 but I would be surprised if there's no
option of getting a warm rich sound. Try to push the poweramp and keep the gain down.
Also a middy booster or overdrive like the good ol' tubescreamer. That should work.

If you are interested in the Twinkleland then just drop Peter an email.
He is very nice and helpful. info@vanweelden.com

Alex

...it's a musical journey
www.u2-experience.de

Re: General Gear Question

Stratovari wrote:

I personally have no experiences with the TSL100 but I would be surprised if there's no
option of getting a warm rich sound. Try to push the poweramp and keep the gain down.
Also a middy booster or overdrive like the good ol' tubescreamer. That should work.

If you are interested in the Twinkleland then just drop Peter an email.
He is very nice and helpful. info@vanweelden.com

Alex


Thanks for the info!  I did actually try to push the power amp but I only got to about 5 on the volume before I couldn't handle it anymore.  I think I know another way to do it though and I'll try that.  I do have a vintage tube screamer that I use exclusively with my Strats but I didn't even think of trying it with my LP's.  Thanks alot!  Bryan

Re: General Gear Question

You should have no problems dialing in a good Joe Bonamassa or Billy Gibbons tone on your TSL.  I use a DSL100 and get there in spades.  I have amps that cover the Fender, Vox, Marshall, and Dumble territory very well.  IMO you have the right amp for the tones you are describing.  Joe uses the JCM2000 series amps for quick fly in gigs or when using his larger rig is impractical.  Joe usually uses the clean channel with the gain boost on and a TS808RI to boost the gain and mids even more.  Deep switch off and mid shift off as well.  Keep the presense and treble low while accentuating the lows and mids.  I usually run my mids on about 3 o'clock or full up.  Same for the bass.  Alex is also right about getting some power tube breakup for a more accurate tone but those amps are LOUD.  Unless you are playing stadiums or huge clubs forget about it.  Some other amps that I've gotten some good Gibbons/Bonamassa tones on are a Metro JTM45, Dr. Z Maz Jr. (believe it or not), Fender Super Reverb (with the right pedals), vintage Blackface Bassman head cranked to the high heavens (got it for $300 a couple of years ago) and my Dailey C-Series head (like a 50w plexi/JCM800 amp with a little bit of refinement to the notes like my Dumble clone).  Any good clean amp would work with the right pedals.  You can't go wrong with a Fulltone Fulldrive II, OCD, or Catalyst in my opinion.  Tubescreamers always work well.  The Boss Blues Driver (especially w/ Keeley mod) works very nice for a grittier Gibbons tone.  People swear by the Fuchs Plush and Creme pedals for JB tones and I hear that the Ocean FX Pearl Drive is very nice for that as well.  Keep in mind that the gear is only part of the equation as I know Joe or Billy could play a show with your guitar and amp no problem.  Good luck and have fun tone chasing!

'67 and '74 Fender Twin Reverbs, '74 Marshall 1987 lead mkII, Metro Superlead 100. Pedals from TC Electronic, Ibanez, Dunlop, BK Butler, Electro-Harmonix, Fulltone, Maestro/Gibson, Loopmaster switching, VoodooLab, Boss. Gibson and Fender guitars, Dimarzio pickups.

Re: General Gear Question

stratpaulguy86 wrote:

You should have no problems dialing in a good Joe Bonamassa or Billy Gibbons tone on your TSL.  I use a DSL100 and get there in spades.  I have amps that cover the Fender, Vox, Marshall, and Dumble territory very well.  IMO you have the right amp for the tones you are describing.  Joe uses the JCM2000 series amps for quick fly in gigs or when using his larger rig is impractical.  Joe usually uses the clean channel with the gain boost on and a TS808RI to boost the gain and mids even more.  Deep switch off and mid shift off as well.  Keep the presense and treble low while accentuating the lows and mids.  I usually run my mids on about 3 o'clock or full up.  Same for the bass.  Alex is also right about getting some power tube breakup for a more accurate tone but those amps are LOUD.  Unless you are playing stadiums or huge clubs forget about it.  Some other amps that I've gotten some good Gibbons/Bonamassa tones on are a Metro JTM45, Dr. Z Maz Jr. (believe it or not), Fender Super Reverb (with the right pedals), vintage Blackface Bassman head cranked to the high heavens (got it for $300 a couple of years ago) and my Dailey C-Series head (like a 50w plexi/JCM800 amp with a little bit of refinement to the notes like my Dumble clone).  Any good clean amp would work with the right pedals.  You can't go wrong with a Fulltone Fulldrive II, OCD, or Catalyst in my opinion.  Tubescreamers always work well.  The Boss Blues Driver (especially w/ Keeley mod) works very nice for a grittier Gibbons tone.  People swear by the Fuchs Plush and Creme pedals for JB tones and I hear that the Ocean FX Pearl Drive is very nice for that as well.  Keep in mind that the gear is only part of the equation as I know Joe or Billy could play a show with your guitar and amp no problem.  Good luck and have fun tone chasing!



Yeah I know I shouldn't have any problems but one thing I have noticed with the TSL is that it doesn't have as nasty or throaty of a clean tone as the DSL does.  It seems to me that I'm using my Boss EQ more than I should be to get that mid range punch that I like out of my Classic Custom LP.  I am not by any means chasing Billy or Joe's sound, they just happen to have something similar to what I'm looking for.  I am going to do some more tone chasing based on the tips that you and Alex have given me.  I have the pedals to do the job I think:  Ibanez Tubescreamer, Boss Blues Driver, Danelectro Daddy-O, Marshall Guv'nor, Boss OS-2 Overdrive/Distortion, and Old DOD Overdrive (Yellow).  I even have a Boss Compressor/Sustainer that I've never used and I don't know how I could use it or if it would even help.  Tell me what you think of the pedal setup and let me know what you think I could lose or gain with them.  Thanks alot!!!  Bryan

Re: General Gear Question

Bryan Cox wrote:
stratpaulguy86 wrote:

You should have no problems dialing in a good Joe Bonamassa or Billy Gibbons tone on your TSL.  I use a DSL100 and get there in spades.  I have amps that cover the Fender, Vox, Marshall, and Dumble territory very well.  IMO you have the right amp for the tones you are describing.  Joe uses the JCM2000 series amps for quick fly in gigs or when using his larger rig is impractical.  Joe usually uses the clean channel with the gain boost on and a TS808RI to boost the gain and mids even more.  Deep switch off and mid shift off as well.  Keep the presense and treble low while accentuating the lows and mids.  I usually run my mids on about 3 o'clock or full up.  Same for the bass.  Alex is also right about getting some power tube breakup for a more accurate tone but those amps are LOUD.  Unless you are playing stadiums or huge clubs forget about it.  Some other amps that I've gotten some good Gibbons/Bonamassa tones on are a Metro JTM45, Dr. Z Maz Jr. (believe it or not), Fender Super Reverb (with the right pedals), vintage Blackface Bassman head cranked to the high heavens (got it for $300 a couple of years ago) and my Dailey C-Series head (like a 50w plexi/JCM800 amp with a little bit of refinement to the notes like my Dumble clone).  Any good clean amp would work with the right pedals.  You can't go wrong with a Fulltone Fulldrive II, OCD, or Catalyst in my opinion.  Tubescreamers always work well.  The Boss Blues Driver (especially w/ Keeley mod) works very nice for a grittier Gibbons tone.  People swear by the Fuchs Plush and Creme pedals for JB tones and I hear that the Ocean FX Pearl Drive is very nice for that as well.  Keep in mind that the gear is only part of the equation as I know Joe or Billy could play a show with your guitar and amp no problem.  Good luck and have fun tone chasing!



Yeah I know I shouldn't have any problems but one thing I have noticed with the TSL is that it doesn't have as nasty or throaty of a clean tone as the DSL does.  It seems to me that I'm using my Boss EQ more than I should be to get that mid range punch that I like out of my Classic Custom LP.  I am not by any means chasing Billy or Joe's sound, they just happen to have something similar to what I'm looking for.  I am going to do some more tone chasing based on the tips that you and Alex have given me.  I have the pedals to do the job I think:  Ibanez Tubescreamer, Boss Blues Driver, Danelectro Daddy-O, Marshall Guv'nor, Boss OS-2 Overdrive/Distortion, and Old DOD Overdrive (Yellow).  I even have a Boss Compressor/Sustainer that I've never used and I don't know how I could use it or if it would even help.  Tell me what you think of the pedal setup and let me know what you think I could lose or gain with them.  Thanks alot!!!  Bryan

I do have one more question for you.  What do you think of the clones from Ceria Tone Amplification?

Re: General Gear Question

In regards to Ceriatone amps, it all depends on what you are looking for.  If you are looking for a cheaper, better built, handwired JCM800 or Silver Jubilee (not made anymore) then Ceriatone is a no brainer.  If you don't want to spend $5000 on a Two-Rock or Fuchs then the Overtone is also a no brainer.  Now when you get into the vintage Marshall/Fender territory there are a LOT of guys out there doing them cheaply and well.  George over at Metropoulos Amplification offers plexi kits with detailed instructions and vintage correct parts/transformers for around $1000.  I can vouch, they sound incredible!  I hear that Nik from Ceriatone makes damn impressive vintage Marshall clones but I know for a fact that George's parts and options make for a more vintage correct historical amp.  They are as close as you can get to timewarping to 1967/1968 and picking up an original Marshall.  There are a couple of bonuses of dealing with Nik though.  His customer support is off the charts good, his products are very well made, and he will actually take the time to find the perfect amp for you.  Just shoot him an email describing what tones you are after at the right volume and he'll point you in the right direction.

'67 and '74 Fender Twin Reverbs, '74 Marshall 1987 lead mkII, Metro Superlead 100. Pedals from TC Electronic, Ibanez, Dunlop, BK Butler, Electro-Harmonix, Fulltone, Maestro/Gibson, Loopmaster switching, VoodooLab, Boss. Gibson and Fender guitars, Dimarzio pickups.

Re: General Gear Question

stratpaulguy86 wrote:

In regards to Ceriatone amps, it all depends on what you are looking for.  If you are looking for a cheaper, better built, handwired JCM800 or Silver Jubilee (not made anymore) then Ceriatone is a no brainer.  If you don't want to spend $5000 on a Two-Rock or Fuchs then the Overtone is also a no brainer.  Now when you get into the vintage Marshall/Fender territory there are a LOT of guys out there doing them cheaply and well.  George over at Metropoulos Amplification offers plexi kits with detailed instructions and vintage correct parts/transformers for around $1000.  I can vouch, they sound incredible!  I hear that Nik from Ceriatone makes damn impressive vintage Marshall clones but I know for a fact that George's parts and options make for a more vintage correct historical amp.  They are as close as you can get to timewarping to 1967/1968 and picking up an original Marshall.  There are a couple of bonuses of dealing with Nik though.  His customer support is off the charts good, his products are very well made, and he will actually take the time to find the perfect amp for you.  Just shoot him an email describing what tones you are after at the right volume and he'll point you in the right direction.


Wow!  Thanks so much for the info!  That exactly what I was looking for in regards to clones.  I'm not by any means an amp collector ar anything, I just want to have all the tones at my disposal.  Thanks again!  Bryan

Re: General Gear Question

KT-77's are generally going to have more sizzle to them.   I've been using the JJ EL-34's for about 2 years now.  They are tight, punchy, and warm.  As far as the Ceriatone,  yea they are cheaper, but are they better then the real deal?  Thats for you to decide, but don't let the fact that they are handwired make you think they are.  Quality is Quality and Craftsmaship is Craftmanship.  Some handwired amps blow, and some PC Board amps are great.  Just ask Joe and Slash.  Both Marshall PC Board users.  As long as its quality stuff and someone with a good ear put in craftmanship/knowledge, it generally will be good.  I played a brand new, out of the box Ceriatone HRM for the first time last Saturday and wasn't pleased with it.  I'll take my Fuchs (which is PC Board) over it anyday for Dumble tones...

Ben

10 (edited by stratpaulguy86 2009-08-30 00:48:53)

Re: General Gear Question

Ben, there are definately differences between a stock Ceriatone HRM and your Fuchs.  First thing your Fuchs is a non-HRM circuit that lends itself for a more fluid "Robben Ford and the Blue Line" tone if you will.  The HRM is a little brighter, harder, stiffer, and unforgiving.  The HRM circuit is a little bit more like what Robben and Carlton are using now.  Different strokes for different folks.  Price aside I'd probably like a Fuchs or Two-Rock and will probably own one or both someday.  I'd like to get my hands on a Two-Rock Emmy Pro, Kustom, Prototype or CRS someday.  The Fuchs TDS is one of the amps on my dreamlist.  The big advantages for the Fuchs/Two-Rock amps over the stock Ceriatones are the built on reverb (which is about the best you can get), the super heavy duty transformers/parts, and local service to get your amps modded/repaired etc.  I have heard some clips of some modded Ceriatones that easily give a Fuchs, Two Rock, Quinn, Bludotone, or any other Dumble ODS style amp a run for it's money though.  Ben, count yourself lucky that you are fortunate enough to own the gear that you do.  99% of the guitarists out there will go their whole lives never owning that kind of gear.  I know guys who have been playing for 30 years + and have never owned even a Gibson Les Paul, not to mention a Fuchs, Two-Rock, Top Hat, Mesa, Marshall, etc etc etc to play it through.

PS Ben I just picked up an old '68 Super Reverb man...you want to talk about blues tone.  If you are looking for one combo to take to a gig that you don't want to/have to drop a lot of money on I would check one out.  With the right pedals it can do anything from Robben Ford, Derek Trucks, SRV, Joe Bonamassa, Hendrix, EJ, etc.  Circuitwise it's about 95% the same as a Blackface Super Reverb too.  $800!  It's my new favorite amp. big_smile

'67 and '74 Fender Twin Reverbs, '74 Marshall 1987 lead mkII, Metro Superlead 100. Pedals from TC Electronic, Ibanez, Dunlop, BK Butler, Electro-Harmonix, Fulltone, Maestro/Gibson, Loopmaster switching, VoodooLab, Boss. Gibson and Fender guitars, Dimarzio pickups.

Re: General Gear Question

Yeah Ben
              Have to admit Ceriatone HRM brand new out the box does not sound impressive
              but IMO that give the amp time to break in caps, trannys resistors and it starts to
              sound great . So any one thinking of going for a Ceriatone dont be put off.
              I played a Gig last night and the Ceriatone HRM sounded great , better than my Jubilee
               
                          DEREK

"Everybody's entitled to my opinion. wink

Re: General Gear Question

SOFTMC wrote:

Yeah Ben
              Have to admit Ceriatone HRM brand new out the box does not sound impressive
              but IMO that give the amp time to break in caps, trannys resistors and it starts to
              sound great . So any one thinking of going for a Ceriatone dont be put off.
              I played a Gig last night and the Ceriatone HRM sounded great , better than my Jubilee
               
                          DEREK

It's funny that you mention the "break in" period on those amps.  I was very shocked and disappointed when I first tried my HRM100 out.  I was about ready to throw it out a window when I first got it!  So I take it to a local guitar store for a buddy of mine to check out and we crank that baby up almost full up...WOW!  Loud but still I was wondering where all those classic Dumble tones that I've heard are.  It was very bright and almost Van Halen Marshall Plexi sounding.  Well that half hour of blasting really burned that amp in!  It keeps getting warmer and more toneful everytime I plug into it.  Now I can easily ape the JB, Carlton, Ford, Santana, etc tones out of it.  I'm thinking about getting some NOS preamp glass for it and a Fuchs Verbrator for the loop.  Also, when you blend amps like I usually do the "stand alone" tone matters less and less.  If you play a big dollar D-clone next to my HRM there's a good chance my amp will not sound as good.  But you take that amp and blend it with another and those differences become a lot smaller.  The most important thing is how you play with the EQs and how the amps FEEL.  I'd wager that, especially when blending amps, you could fool a lot of people with blind clips.  I think that's a little bit of the reason why Joe can change amps out like underwear yet still get the same tones happening every night.  There IS that other thing called his hands but I won't even go there... tongue

'67 and '74 Fender Twin Reverbs, '74 Marshall 1987 lead mkII, Metro Superlead 100. Pedals from TC Electronic, Ibanez, Dunlop, BK Butler, Electro-Harmonix, Fulltone, Maestro/Gibson, Loopmaster switching, VoodooLab, Boss. Gibson and Fender guitars, Dimarzio pickups.

Re: General Gear Question

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hgJudyJfXQA

That sound like nothing you described... brighter, harder, stiffer, and unforgiving.  That sounds pretty sweet.  If thats an HRM then the Ceriatone wasn't even close.  As for electrical components needing a"burn in time", I've never heard such a thing and I'm an Electrician.  Yes tubes and speakers, but components no.  Then modding a Ceriatone, give me a break.  Now your talking about putting it up in price, where as you can just spend a few more clams on ebay for a used Fuchs thats going to sound dumble-esque when it arrives.  I've even heard that some of the more complex Ceriatone circuits aren't even correct.  Half an amp for half the price I guess....  My advice is spend the money for a Fuchs or Two Rock, and not because I'm an owner, but because they have stature in the amp building community. You won't be dissapointed.

Ben

PS - Cool.  I just bought an absolutely mint condition, all original Marshall Silver Jubilee 2555 half stack for $1900.  Stay tuned for pics.

Re: General Gear Question

GoT MuLe 31788 wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hgJudyJfXQA

That sound like nothing you described... brighter, harder, stiffer, and unforgiving.  That sounds pretty sweet.  If thats an HRM then the Ceriatone wasn't even close.  As for electrical components needing a"burn in time", I've never heard such a thing and I'm an Electrician.  Yes tubes and speakers, but components no.  Then modding a Ceriatone, give me a break.  Now your talking about putting it up in price, where as you can just spend a few more clams on ebay for a used Fuchs thats going to sound dumble-esque when it arrives.  I've even heard that some of the more complex Ceriatone circuits aren't even correct.  Half an amp for half the price I guess....  My advice is spend the money for a Fuchs or Two Rock, and not because I'm an owner, but because they have stature in the amp building community. You won't be dissapointed.

Ben

PS - Cool.  I just bought an absolutely mint condition, all original Marshall Silver Jubilee 2555 half stack for $1900.  Stay tuned for pics.

 

YEP I know it sounds weird Ben but this is a fact IMO when I first plugged in after building the amp
       it sounded totally different as to how it sounds now OK I dont kow why exactly but I am also
       an electrical engineer . so something needed to burn in as the valves were old ones. also my
       brother built one to exact dumble specifications from the ampgarage forum. he too said the
       amp did not sound great straight off. maybe its just your ears getting used to the sound
       of the amp ??  , also my ceriatone sounds very like my brothers ! Pound for pound IMO the
       Ceriatone has brought Dumble like tones to those who dont have big bucks to spend on gear
       I could afford 2rock and fuchs but cant justify this money when I have 2 kids and a mortage
        it would be totally selfish of me to spend that kinda cash.

      I,m Stoked you got yourself a jubilee at a good price (hope its not an early serial No)
      some pics would be great even better A sound clip its way too long since you posted
      anything
                                         DEREK

"Everybody's entitled to my opinion. wink

Re: General Gear Question

SOFTMC wrote:

Yeah Ben
             
Have to admit Ceriatone HRM brand new out the box does not sound impressive
but IMO that give the amp time to break in caps, trannys resistors and it starts to
sound great . So any one thinking of going for a Ceriatone dont be put off.
I played a Gig last night and the Ceriatone HRM sounded great , better than my Jubilee
               
DEREK


30-40 hours real playing break-in time before these things settle in and really start to shine.  Same with any amp.  My Overtone sounded killer.