• jim m
  • jim m
  • BONAMETAL
  • Offline
  • From: Okie City, OK
  • Registered: 2006-04-24
  • Posts: 3,429

Re: Wondering about the Nature of the Music

Dino wrote:

I hate hate hate hate hate hate jams. 

I never go.  Either as a writer, or as a fan.

I like going to see a band rehearse.

I like watching a band jam, but that is a band.

I do not like total strangers trying to find musical common ground, and often times NOT finding it.

Now I know you have been to a jam that Joe showed at. Well I have too and those opportunities are few and far between. Seeing world class musicians jam is a different story. Seeing a few hacks butcher the blues is not. I have seen a stage full of world class musicians jam that was best described as a cluster **** so I know what you mean.

jim m's Website

  • From: Edgewater, FL
  • Registered: 2007-12-08
  • Posts: 5,046

Re: Wondering about the Nature of the Music

These are all good discussion points.  I have been to jams where magic happened.  It's elusive, though.  Most people are not pure blues or pure anything, for that matter, Nic.

If a little common sense were applied to the general "rules" as proposed by Jim, we would have a wonderful situation where musicians could test the waters or get their feet wet.  I've seen 2-3 guys work on something in the garage and then recruit a drummer or bassist or keys or guitar from the crowd and shine.

I've seen egomaniac players sing from one tune to the next without telling anybody in the jam band what key or tune they want to do next and then #@$@# onstage in front of the crowd about how the band sucked.  I've unplugged 1-2 of those jackasses myself.

I've seen 5 guys stand onstage and nobody sings.  Did you talk to one another before you got up there?  Generally speaking if all involved are interested in presenting a finished product that's acceptable and they can communicate...NOT HACKS.

Anything else including daytrippers & egomaniacs (talented or not)...HACKS & WANKERS!

ALSO: There is a balance to be had if you're running the darn thing.  You have some obligation to give all their chance in the order they signed up...not putting in your drinking buddy in ahead of all the jammers who've been patient is a good idea.

At the same time if somebody sucks there is no obligation to give them their 3 tunes.  The crowd will tell you.  But it takes work and you have to pay attentioon and be fearless.  Most stage mgrs in the lower end just sit out back in the alley and get stoned.

The last point I'll make in this epistle to the sinners big_smile is that the higher the level of talent and musicology, the better and easier and more fun the jams are.  I've participated in Jazz/Blues jams where there were Berk & Juli grads and there were no attitudes and it was simple...whomever sang lead, led the band.

They had no problems with egos.  Conversely I've been in jams that almost erupted in fistfights because of misplaced egos and poor communications. 

AND don't let a bassman or drummer tell a guitar wanker that the chord is a E7sharp9 not an Emin7.  or that the turnaround in the Thrill is Gone is major even though the song is in Bminor...or what is 12/8 anyway?

PBBBBBT he says sticking tongue out, feeling feisty after bad day.

BJJ FDOL

Rock On & Keep the FAITH
             It is
Blues From the Bottoms

bigjeffjones's Website

  • Registered: 2008-02-14
  • Posts: 2,578

Re: Wondering about the Nature of the Music

jim m wrote:

Tough Question. Not everybody is a critic. Blues society jams are a place for that to happen of course. People don't always listen to critisizms unfortunatley. The regular blues jam usually relies on somebody to vouch for the unknown player or they get the hook early. Yes it can be embarrassing but you don't want to clear the house because you don't want to hurt somebodies feelings.

All blues societies are different with jams. When ours was at an all ages venue we used to get kids come and get their feet wet on stage all the time. We don't have that anymore The new jam locations are over 21. We get the guy or band that has been practicing and they come out to get their feet wet too. Then the following rules should apply.

1.If your friends and family are the only following you have and even they think of excuses to not come to your gigs. Then you probably are a hack

2. You can't get any gigs paying or otherwise. Then you probably are a hack.

3. It doesn't mater how much you practice you still forget the changes and muff the endings.  You probably are a hack.

4. You can only solo in one key. Exception. If your singer can only sing in that key and therfore you must play in it. If you however show up at a jam and can only play in that key. You are probably a hack.

5. If you come to a jam and somebody calls out a I IV V with a quick change in E and we're starting on the IV and you are lost. Then you are probably a hack. Unless you are a drummer than it doesn't really matter.

     For Drummers

6.  If everybody keeps looking back and telling you to speed it up more than once. You probably are a hack.

7. If you still haven't got the changes after once through the chord progression. You probably are a hack.

8. If every song ends up the same beat and speed no matter where it started. Then you probably are a hack. I have been acused of that one by my son.

I'm a hack but I have fun with it in the privacy of my own garage.

Please feel free to add your own

Ha, ha, Jim I love this post! If I was ever a musician, I could imagine all of the above happening to me. You are right!

"The recently formed Edinburgh Blues Club has identified an appetite for the personal communication between musicians and audience that the blues long ago perfected." The Herald Newspaper (Scotland)
http://www.edinburgh-blues.uk
  • Dino
  • Platinum
  • Offline
  • Registered: 2006-05-28
  • Posts: 373

Re: Wondering about the Nature of the Music

I hated that Jam as well Moods.  I truly did.  The band looked bad, there were hurt feelings, and all sorts of crap. 

The only jam I ever liked, and it was because in my opinion it was a lot like Ali Foreman...was when Tommy Castro showed up to a Bill Perry gig at The Pub after Big Bull Falls blues jam.  That was an amazing night.

  • From: Lancashire
  • Registered: 2008-02-26
  • Posts: 700

Re: Wondering about the Nature of the Music

"8. If every song ends up the same beat and speed no matter where it started. Then you probably are a hack. I have been acused of that one by my son. "


LOL well I can safely say I've had to turn around a few times smile I've even asked a drummer and bassist to not play because of it... but with no disrespect of course smile manners maketh man etc etc

  • Rocket
  • Rocket
  • BONAMEGAMETAL
  • Offline
  • From: San Francisco
  • Registered: 2006-04-26
  • Posts: 10,275

Re: Wondering about the Nature of the Music

The answer to the original question is "Yes"!

Jane H. wrote:

It seems like the thread has moved on but I am still stuck on trying to figure out the original question. Now I think it is more about the nature of the musicians not the nature of the music. These jam issues being discussed are common among all types of music. not just Blues.

"He still doesn't charge for mistakes! wink"
http://jbonamassa.com/tour-dates/
"Everybody wants ta get inta the act!"
“Now, this isn’t your ordinary party crowd, here.  I mean, there are professionals in here.”
  • Rocket
  • Rocket
  • BONAMEGAMETAL
  • Offline
  • From: San Francisco
  • Registered: 2006-04-26
  • Posts: 10,275

Re: Wondering about the Nature of the Music

The second question..."No". A watered down drink will still get me crunk.

"He still doesn't charge for mistakes! wink"
http://jbonamassa.com/tour-dates/
"Everybody wants ta get inta the act!"
“Now, this isn’t your ordinary party crowd, here.  I mean, there are professionals in here.”

62 Reply by Rocket (edited by Rocket 2008-12-26 16:29:14)

  • Rocket
  • Rocket
  • BONAMEGAMETAL
  • Offline
  • From: San Francisco
  • Registered: 2006-04-26
  • Posts: 10,275

Re: Wondering about the Nature of the Music

Chuck Berry & Blues guys often employed "locals" with a modicum of pro caliber talent, sometimes less than.  The cream invariably rises to the top.  Really, that's how all "make it"-from the ashes and tatters of lousy "jams" that had one gelling ingredient-the star that shines and brings the nods, smiles, wows, leadership, direction, handhakes, autograph seekers, sing-alongs....,etc.  Any cross section of music, let alone art.  No cheapening, just separating the wheat from the chaff.  Volume of sales and royalties aside, longevity has it's place.  BB King next week for me- $75.00!
He's been making money longer than I've been.  I think any artist would desire to emulate that over "use to be".
I also disgree with the guy who said on here, BB is "past his musical prime"-fat chance.

Rock On & Keep the Faith,
Rocket

"He still doesn't charge for mistakes! wink"
http://jbonamassa.com/tour-dates/
"Everybody wants ta get inta the act!"
“Now, this isn’t your ordinary party crowd, here.  I mean, there are professionals in here.”