• Registered: 2008-06-17
  • Posts: 9

Topic: Speakers and Tubes for JCM 800

Hi All,
This is my first gear post. I am chasing that thick JB tone and would like some advise. I have read a lot about pairing amps and wet/dry mix but not much about tubes and speakers.
I play a LesPaul Classic  with a BurstBucker5 in the bridge and a Duncan Jazz in the neck into a Lovepedal Eternity. Then I split the signal - one side goes to a stock '81 JCM800 head w/6550's sitting on a '81 1936 2x12 cab loaded with G12-65 speakers. The other side goes to a SIB mr. Echo into a Marshall Studio 15 through a EVM12L thiele ported 1x12.
This rig gets big and crunchy but not as chewy and smooth as I want. Can anyone recommend   a change to bring me closer to the smooth JB sound.

Change tubes to EL34's?
Switch PU's
Different speakers or cab?

Thanks.

  • From: Maryland
  • Registered: 2007-10-20
  • Posts: 109

Re: Speakers and Tubes for JCM 800

I would start with the tubes, 6550 I have in a jcm 800 lead series loud clear sound, 34's I like groove tubes but telefunkin and JJ's are also good, this give you what you looking for in the easiest way.  If that does'nt work than you can start chasing ghosts!

If heartaches were nickels, I'd have 35 cents!
http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fu … =383604393

3 Reply by NPB_EST.1979 (edited by NPB_EST.1979 2008-06-17 15:14:19)

  • From: Detroit
  • Registered: 2006-06-02
  • Posts: 5,807

Re: Speakers and Tubes for JCM 800

I've probably said this before, but I've had bad experiences with Groove tubes. I've had like three sets of them and the glass around the pins cracked on my EL84's. I had a tweed 100 watt amp that took 8, (yes eight!) EL84 tubes.  At least 3 would crack up and blow a fuse. I couldn't get a set that didn't crack and blow up...I ended up putting the original Sovteks back in and kept playing.

Now that I use EL34's in my Rivera amp, I use Ruby tubes and have been happy with them. There's all kinds of tubes I guess I'd be willing to try. I just learned a lesson to stay away from Groove tubes IMO.

- Nic from Detroit... posting on JB's Forum since 6-2-2006
Ask me about my handwound Great Lakes Guitar Pickups
Since 2010, Bonamassa fans have taken advantage of my JB friend discount = my cost + shipping. cool
  • Registered: 2008-06-17
  • Posts: 9

Re: Speakers and Tubes for JCM 800

Thanks for the suggestions.
I think EL34's are the next step. Does anyone have experience getting that smooth, thick sound from G12-65's. I bought them after reading rave reviews, but so far can't nail that sound. Maybe the tubes will do the trick.

5 Reply by Beerdog80 (edited by Beerdog80 2008-06-17 21:16:42)

  • From: Oklahoma
  • Registered: 2008-03-28
  • Posts: 263

Re: Speakers and Tubes for JCM 800

Tubes will help get close.  I would also work on getting a few 'mods' done to it.  a few people change transformers or lower the wattage down to 150v on the power tubes.  Just a trick to try.  I just try changing tubes and speakers.  Maybe try a higher wattage speaker than what it's rated for.

Don't play leapfrog with a unicorn
  • From: Germany
  • Registered: 2008-04-23
  • Posts: 553

Re: Speakers and Tubes for JCM 800

Hi,

it looks you have already good stuff. So first I would fiddle more with it
before buying new this or that. I have a Marshall 2555 Top and a 2x12 cab.
with G12-65 and I can archieve the thick Lead sound easily (of course not as mighty as a 4x12)

Maybe the trick is in the master volume?
I set the gain relatively low on 11 o'clock and the main master
on 2-3 o'clock. So the sound always stay clear and dynamic. For heavier lead stuff I switch a
MEK TD-1 (very good TS clone) which has very sweet mids and voila!! Also the amp still cleans
up by rolling back the git. volume. With much preamp gain and less master vol. I found the Marshall a tad thin sounding. Another thing is, you could try to EQ your amps different. I used to try this with my amps. One amp very clear and the other very thick and beefy sounding.
Not a pleasant sound if you hear only one amp but combined it makes sense and take the best
of both amps. 

Just my minds...

Alex

...it's a musical journey
www.u2-experience.de

Stratovari's Website

  • Registered: 2008-06-17
  • Posts: 9

Re: Speakers and Tubes for JCM 800

Thanks BeerDog and Stratovari,
Its good to hear that you can clean up your g12-65's with your guitar. Thats what I miss since getting this cab. It used to be a breeze with my 4x12 w/v30's (that's what I sold to get the 2x12). Maybe I need to mess with the settings on the 2204 some more.
I'm also going to switch the tubes to EL34's. I'm convinced that those will help a lot.

Thanks,
-vaguitarman

  • From: Oklahoma
  • Registered: 2008-03-28
  • Posts: 263

Re: Speakers and Tubes for JCM 800

vaguitarman wrote:

Thanks BeerDog and Stratovari,
Its good to hear that you can clean up your g12-65's with your guitar. Thats what I miss since getting this cab. It used to be a breeze with my 4x12 w/v30's (that's what I sold to get the 2x12). Maybe I need to mess with the settings on the 2204 some more.
I'm also going to switch the tubes to EL34's. I'm convinced that those will help a lot.

Thanks,
-vaguitarman

Stratovari did bring up a good point. does yours 800 have a master volume?  If not, you should really look into wiring one up.  I have used EL-34's in all my Marshalls and love them.  I find they break up nicely with a touch of gain and if you decide to go nuts, they hold the tone from going to crap real good.

Don't play leapfrog with a unicorn

9 Reply by SOFTMC (edited by SOFTMC 2008-06-18 15:05:21)

  • Registered: 2008-03-07
  • Posts: 508

Re: Speakers and Tubes for JCM 800

HI
    I too had a jcm800 2203 and tried every thing to get that JB saturated lead tone!
    from it. could get close but never sounded quite right. then one day decided to buy a silver series marshall jubilee 2553 half stack. these are hard to find so one popped up on ebay so I thought if joe uses them its got to be worth a try. THIS IS THE SOUND!!!
AN incredible sounding amplifier which unlike the JCM800 doesnt need to be full up to get thick smooth distortion. these are basically jcm800 with a built in distortion by the way of clipping diodes. Slash also uses these amplifiers and has his own signature model.
there is a marshall jubilee 2553 for sale on ebay just now but ends soon.

anyway if its joes tone you want find one of these and your halfway there
then all you need to do is play like him. HEHE good luck on that one!!!!!

P.S one other thing its may be worth trying a marshall Guvnor pedal, not the new one the old one from the 80S Im told that this is the same circuit that is in the marshall jubilee amps
so maybe along with your jcm800 it may do the trick it would certainly be a cheaper option.
good luck anyway..

"Everybody's entitled to my opinion. wink
  • Registered: 2008-06-17
  • Posts: 9

Re: Speakers and Tubes for JCM 800

hey SOFTMC,
Thats a good tip about the guv'nor pedal. I have a re-issue 808 on the way. I'll see if the EL34's and TS808 get me there. I am kicking myself for not buying a Silver Jubilee combo that was posted on Craigslist here in DC about a month ago. I got the Studio 15 instead. Its cool too but really needs an extesion cab to get going.

  • From: Cleveland
  • Registered: 2006-07-05
  • Posts: 36

Re: Speakers and Tubes for JCM 800

First, I'd like to point out that most of what Groove Tubes, Ruby Tubes, and many others carry are just tested and rebranded.  There are only 5 factories in the world currently making tubes for guitar amps.

I recommend:

EL34 - either JJ EL34L (Slovak) or Winged =C= tubes (St. Petersburg plant, Russia)

12AX7/ECC83 -

New Old Stock -

Mullards are as good as you can get, but expensive.  RFT tubes are similar to the Mullard tone but darker.  RCA grey plates and Amperex Bugle Boy are also great.  All of these blow away current production and it's worth having one in the first preamp stage of any amp.

For current production...

JJ ECC83S - Smooth, warm, not harsh at all.  Great detailed midrange.

Shuguang (China) 12AX7 - used in many new Marshalls, has more bass and treble than the JJ and is high gain and fairly compressed sounding.  great hard rock / metal tube.

TungSol 12AX7 reissue - another decent tube I've just started to try.  I like it a lot for a new production tube.

Hope this helps.

Craig's Guitar Tech Resource - free information online.
Guitar Repair and Customization in Northeast Ohio since 1979.

http://www.guitartechcraig.com

CraigJC's Website

  • From: Pittsburgh
  • Registered: 2008-05-22
  • Posts: 261

Re: Speakers and Tubes for JCM 800

Joe uses a pair pf amps that run 6L6's along side his Marshalls.  While the bottom L Silver Jubilee is always on, Joe kicks in the Two Rock, van Weeldan or Dumble type amp for the Warm, Silky Smooth stuff your after.
Marshall amps and particular EL34's will give the nice crunch stuff but the 6L6's are undeniably warmer and smoother.

DannyG's Website

13 Reply by ken

  • ken
  • ken
  • Titanium
  • Offline
  • From: Orlando, FL
  • Registered: 2007-05-28
  • Posts: 949

Re: Speakers and Tubes for JCM 800

CraigJC wrote:

TungSol 12AX7 reissue - another decent tube I've just started to try.  I like it a lot for a new production tube.

Don't try these in a Budda, they made mine squeal like a stuck pig! I've also read other budda owners say the same thing about these.
I went back to either sovtek (came in the amp) or I have a couple of nice Brimar cv4004s that I'll through into V1 once in a while for a little extra oomph.