1 (edited by Ian916 2014-03-14 06:20:14)

Topic: Low definition music - do we care?

have any of you been watching the debate over the drop in standard of music reproduction lately? Neil Young is on a crusade with Pono to get sound quality improved with a high def player.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/10 … vers-music

Can’t help but think that we have been duped into accepting convenience of mp3 over what was once superb quality of vinyl, along came CD and we accepted the convenience for a small drop in quality, but with the iPod generation and mp3 we really have accepted mediocrity.

- Not sure that another standard or player is the solution when what should be happening is that the likes of Apple are targeted to provide better.

... and don’t start me on the evil that is Spotify! wink Some of you may have seen Kevin Caveman Shirley’s rant on his Facebook page recently, - fair comment.

smile Friday morning rant over (for now), off to work!

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Re: Low definition music - do we care?

Tend to agree with you Ian. We made a point of having an mp3/iPod connection on our car stereo when we bought it, only to find that the sound quality was way worse than the CD player.

Vinyl is definitely making a comeback here in Germany, with many more music shops stocking records, but this format harks back to a time when we would actually sit down just to listen to an album in its entirety. These days most people seem to have music on in the background while they are doing other things, so convenience is the key, as you rightly say. I would love to see the quality of these convenient formats improving over time.

Even fools say something worthwhile now and again

Re: Low definition music - do we care?

Certainly not as much as I used to. I have a small drop in hearing ability. Actually my hearing is not lossless it is on it's way to lost. wink I do think that most people play their music in the car or on headphones and the high end stereophile is only for the very wealthy that debate the minute details of their equipment and it's ability to reproduce every nuance. Those audiophiles that think vinyl is the answer or proffered lose me because I never want to go back to vinyl. If that is the choice then I'm out. I will explore PONO because there are times when I want to crank it loud enough to drown out the constant ringing in my ears and hear the music at concert level volume in my little home theater room which is generally used to play only CD or Blu Ray concerts and movies. Then when you realize everything I bought a year ago is soon to be out dated I have to tell myself there is a point that my aging eyes can't tell the difference with a higher resolution picture than I currently have as my ears have limited ability to hear the difference of better sound reproduction than the good old well mastered CD.

Re: Low definition music - do we care?

I found a huge difference between the original Ozzy Osbourne CDs and the digitally remastered CDs. Overall output and added effects were much more pronounced. Both CDs, just one was remastered.

I have found that in most cases, CDs still sound better than records. Even though, admittedly, I don't like buying CDs anymore. I've been buying tons of records.

I like playing records for the nostalgia of it, andas soon as I find a decent turntable I'll be able to truly tell exactly "how good" a record will sound compared to an mp3. The album? An unopened vinyl record of The Ballad of John Henry, versus the CD, versus the mp3. I remember Joe saying the audiophiles would love the album because of all the extra layers.

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Re: Low definition music - do we care?

High quality lossless FLAC files have existed for many years up to 192kHz. This is nothing new. I bought a DAC for my mac and a good pair of headphones a few years ago...and haven't looked back. The quality is incredible (bear in mind the people transferring it from other sources/the original source).
This is a clever marketing scheme with a known face to an unoriginal idea. If it plants an old idea in new heads...then welcoming it is.

Re: Low definition music - do we care?

I mostly listen to music while driving now...iPod through the car stereo...and between the engine/exhaust/road noise, it's pretty pointless for me to worry about the relatively small drop in audio quality when it's already compromised by all the ambient noise.

Re: Low definition music - do we care?

When I was young I had the time to sit and listen to albums on vinyl.For me like Stu I listen in my car.Its a function of my job driving around all day.So I am lucky that I have time to consume a lot of music listening.I don't use the mp3 as a primary listening device but find more and more time  when I do now.If I wanted to go vinyl I just wouldn't have the time to listen to much.
So I do think that people are on the go and want to listen to music when and wherever they can.So portability and cloud service are making that a reality.I think I am happy with a good headphone set and my iPhone.Thinking of adding an amp to it.
It may not be the best sound but I guess it's good enough for me to enjoy.I have a pretty decent sound system at home and do treat myself when I can to it.

Your rock candy baby
Your hard sweet and sticky

Re: Low definition music - do we care?

I buy cds, then I rip them to lossless flac files.

I spent about $1300 on my headphone rig and have never looked back.....the sound is pure bliss.

Joe sounds unbelievable, and yes I can hear his fingers hit the guitar strings.....great stuff.


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My Favorite Bonamassa Songs
Happier Times... Sloe Gin...Last Kiss...Lonesome Road Blues...Blues Deluxe...No Slack
Equipment For Listening To Joe
Sennheiser HD800 Headphones & Mad Ear+HD Headphone Amp

Re: Low definition music - do we care?

Honestly, I don't have the time to care. I rarely have the chance to sit down and enjoy listening to music anymore. If I had that free time, I would totally be into vinyl and the whole bit. But, for me, I'm in the car or I'm cleaning or doing something else, so mp3 it is. Maybe when I get older and don't have as much going on I'll get into being more of an audiophile, but until that day, convenience is the word of the day. Now, when it comes to movies/TV, I'm such a high definition junkie it's not even funny.

"And in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make"

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Re: Low definition music - do we care?

CDs on a great stereo when I'm at home
CDs on the car stereo
iPhone/iPad and ear buds when I'm on the train to/from work

I still have a nice turntable that sits in a box in my basement...it would be too painful and costly to update my music collection to vinyl and I don't care enough to do both

"Rock ON & Keep the Faith"

11 (edited by Rocket 2014-03-15 19:19:04)

Re: Low definition music - do we care?

NickelWound wrote:

I think this sound quality problems goes way beyond mp3's and CD's. Just the other day I put on Disraeli Gears which was an .flv file from YouTube but had been ripped from the original Album. Thew sound was spectacular! through $30 laptop speakers! I then went on to compare old Crosby Stills and Nash CDs made from the original tapes. Same thing, amazing!

The problem with current recording sound is compression. Everything is coming out the same speakers at the same time at the same volume all carefully equalized, sweetened and processes and ultimately compressed until all the dynamics have been removed. The results bite. But the older stuff....... On 'Sunshine of Your Love Clapton' was in the left speaker and Bruce and Baker were in the right. What a trip. I really was blown away. And playing Stephen Stills 'Black Queen' brought my wife in from the other room saying 'Wow that sound so nice.' The clarity was astounding.

So I have to agree with improving the overall sound of reproducing recordings. Maybe take a page out of the notebooks from the 70's. Dump the compression and sweetening. I'll take the awesome sound with a few noticeable clicks and pops and thumps over the newer 'perfect' sound any day.

Compression has been and will always continue to play a huge role in electrically managed sound reproductions, recordings, and creations.  It is NOT something new.  In fact the 70's saw the most dramatic experimentation with compressors probably in the history of recordings.  Disco itself is the sigmoid functioning colon function of that era...has it slowly but surely peristaltically advanced to mucho crapola?! Definitely.  Some contend the loudness wars are over.  I am not sure they are anything but the professional field following the trends of the times due to "what's out there" at the time.  Looking retroactively to the original archive version whether master or late generation mutant clone...if you can do a paint-by-number, you should be able in today's tech world to wrestle the sounds (somewhat!) more to your likings.  However, I don't infer completely without the internal mangling (possibly being an incurable total bust) by any stretch of the imagination.  The average schmuck just doesn't have the time nor means nor, sometimes sadly, the desire.  To lay anything as Low definition with prejudice....tat tain't my style.  Someone somewhere will take one of our so-called low def musical entrées and call it a Thanksgiving feast.  My travels, I've witnessed it, time and again.  cool  In fact, I LIVE it! big_smile  What's old-timey scratchy warped recordings without the same? tongue

You wanna know my opinion on the real problem???!!! Digital every MFing thing in the world!!!  There is just something about limiting wiggle room...Take a page out of 1939. cool


Rock ON & Keep the Faith,
Rocket

"He still doesn't charge for mistakes! wink"
http://jbonamassa.com/tour-dates/
"Everybody wants ta get inta the act!"
“Now, this isn’t your ordinary party crowd, here.  I mean, there are professionals in here.”

Re: Low definition music - do we care?

As Joe  Walsh said he's an analog man living in a digital world

Your rock candy baby
Your hard sweet and sticky

Re: Low definition music - do we care?

Don't you just love Rockets ramblings. Must take ages... big_smile

Come on the Blades (sorry Idolbone just had to borrow your line)

14 (edited by RickB 2014-03-16 19:35:48)

Re: Low definition music - do we care?

Don't forget to load up that bass line so the windows rattle as you drive your car down the street. Then toss some sampling of real musicians you rip off, auto tune your singer who can't, and call it music. You'll go platinum for sure.  I'm an analog man.
Rick

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Re: Low definition music - do we care?

RickB wrote:

Don't forget to load up that bass line so the windows rattle as you drive your car down the street. Then toss some sampling of real musicians you rip off, auto tune your singer who can't, and call it music. You'll go platinum for sure.  I'm an analog man.
Rick

Another one here also. big_smile

Come on the Blades (sorry Idolbone just had to borrow your line)

Re: Low definition music - do we care?

RickB wrote:

Don't forget to load up that bass line so the windows rattle as you drive your car down the street. Then toss some sampling of real musicians you rip off, auto tune your singer who can't, and call it music. You'll go platinum for sure.  I'm an analog man.
Rick

For sure!Now can you add that on your Facebook  or tweet that message out!lol

Your rock candy baby
Your hard sweet and sticky

Re: Low definition music - do we care?

I don't have a problem with digital music, in fact I prefer it due to the increased convenience it offers. This is all provided that the bit rate is sufficient to accurately reproduce the music, which it is whenever you have loss less audio files or MP3s of 320 Kbps.

I think people claim digital is inferior whenever they haven't given it a fair test. If you play a vinyl record through a quality amp going into quality speakers, of course it's going to sound better than an MP3 file being played on an iPod going into the cheap ear-buds that came with it. If you were to take that MP3 file and pass it through a quality Digital-Analogue converter (DAC) then into the same Amplifier and speakers, it would sound on par with the record. I also think people have become accustomed to the imperfections that vinyl adds such as the hiss and therefore don't like the purity (for want of a better word) that digital provides.

In terms of production, over the years I've found record companies have been sacrificing dynamic range in order to have maximum volume in order to stand out on the radio. If you google "loudness war" you can find more info on it.

18 (edited by whirlwind 2014-03-20 05:33:37)

Re: Low definition music - do we care?

There are digital audio players now that will play flac files and the like....they are small and will fit in your pocket.......so no need for lower grade mp3 files, especially when you can have better sound than that.

I understand some people cant tell the difference....in that case.....just use mp3 files.

A  Sanza Clip Zip can play any kind of file....and it is about 1 inch wide and 2 inches long....pretty darn tiny...it can get lost in your pocket.

Good thing about Joe....he sounds great anyway you listen to him   smile

My Favorite Bonamassa Songs
Happier Times... Sloe Gin...Last Kiss...Lonesome Road Blues...Blues Deluxe...No Slack
Equipment For Listening To Joe
Sennheiser HD800 Headphones & Mad Ear+HD Headphone Amp