Tickets way too expensive, need new rock stuff and Tilles comments (Page 3 of 5)

It is a closed group Tica. https://www.facebook.com/groups/223791004341610/
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On first impression (of the current/upcoming tour) of Joe's concert ticket prices, I thought they were pretty expensive.  I used to see a lot of shows, but not so many these days, so I don't know how Joe's prices compare to some other mainstream acts, although I recently saw Kenny Wayne Shepherd for considerably less.  Anyway, I've seen Joe before, so I wasn't very surprised at the ticket prices.
I am however, bringing three newbies along with me and I made it clear before I bought the tickets, that they were not going to be "economically minded".  With all the "inconvenience" fees (which I know are not Joe's influence), each of my tickets cost $110 and these are balcony seats (albeit front row).  Since my friends were not completely prepared for the final price, I have been "sweetening the deal" for them by providing them with various audio and video recordings of Joe that they cannot readily obtain elsewhere.  So, yes, due to the high final price, I feel responsible to help ease the sticker shock to my friends.  I don't have to, but I want to.
These aforementioned details actually work together for me though.  Although the ticket prices are higher than I appreciate, I want to see Joe because he's an amazing talent and puts on a whale of a show.  Add to that, he is taper/trader friendly, so I am free to obtain/record his shows and freely share them with others.  That in and of itself, is worth some monetary value (although I never sell or buy them) to me and then I can, as I said, pass some of these on to my friends.
It all pretty much evens out in the end for me.

Good reply -thanks!

Big Jeff, uh...yes, some easily hurt feelings here--and a tendency to lash out and attack as a result! Not nice! Has whiffs of Lord of the Flies! No need to take my comments all so personally people! And..perhaps, just perhaps....I have a point, at least a TEENY point (within all the points folks don't agree with)...? 

So you are equating my critique of the LI show with a past dysfunctional love relationship you were in?  Uh, perhaps you are thinking this through too much as I have been accused of doing. From your analogy what I think you're saying is that I pretend I'm a fan of Joe's but in fact, I actually hate him and I think he's terrible.....uh....Huh?????!?  (I know you were writing in jest, don't worry I appreciate what you were trying to say..;) )

But speaking to the bigger picture...I understand loyalty and how group-think means that a lone member is not allowed to have independent thoughts if they go against what the group is supposed to think...this sort of fan worship is the behavior being demonstrated by a few folks.  And now, boo hoo,  I'm being cast out of the fan group--I've already been ordered not to bother coming to any concerts if I would dare to complain about anything. And now I'm being told that, in fact, I don't even qualify as a true fan, and also that I am not capable of listening at Joe's concerts like *true* fans are, because I'm OBVIOUSLY talking the whole time!  (I think the psychoanalysts in the group should speak out and assess the reactions to my initial objective and, I believe, fair critique!) 

First of all, no, not i'm not busy wasting my 100 bucks talking--and that's because I DO LISTEN when I in the presence a guitar great. Also, more recently I've gone to his concerts ALONE because I can't get anyone to pay 100 bucks to come with me! So I couldn't talk even if I wanted to in some concerts! In fact, one reason, I find it annoying that Joe starts on the dot at 8 because at the last shows I had zillions of late people walking in front of me and squooshing past me which essentially meant that I couldn't focus on the first few songs. So all the magic was zapped out of my experience for those songs because of latecomers trompling all over me or in front of me making everyone stand up. (In fact I'm still smarting from the 2 shows I saw during the 'John Henry' tour where he opened with that. It was clearly a very very powerful opening but I missed it because of these people climbing all over and around me to get seated! I missed perhaps the greatest moments of those shows!)  I guess I should ONLY sit in the front row, but I have only been that lucky a few times and it was way in the past. (One, 2ish years ago at that Jazz Club in NYC--Iridium--where Joe played and there were only about 20 of us there! I did, by the way, get an awesome rendition of WUD at that show that I posted online on my FB and Joe's page, by the way.)

I understand the sensitivity here--no one likes being told that what they like isn't as good as they think it is. But I'm not trying to insult anyone's tastes, I love Joe's music and talent as much as everyone. I partake and qualify as a bonafide fan and this was not meant as an insult to any of you not even Joe. I'm a fan! I listen! I've spent multitude of hours driving to far-away Joe concerts, have been to almost 20 shows,  have bought every CD Joe's done, have paid big bucks as the tics got pricier--not only for a ticket, but yes to sit up close, and have spread the music to friends who were Bonabaptized---and on a weekly basis play Joe's tunes to 100s of people who take my fitness classes....I've even bought tickets for friends who live in other cities so they can go get bonabaptized! SO, please don't take my acknowledgement of everyone's loyalty the wrong way--I don't mean to cast aspersions on anyone for wanting to believe that Joe is flawless and can do no wrong, ever. I think I have adequately acknowledged His Royal Guitar Greatness.

Do I hear subtle differences every time Joe plays the same old songs? YES!!! Just like you do. Sure, I get something new out of them. Sometimes I like the change, sometimes not so much. I mentioned some of the nuances I noticed in my earlier comments. Also, I think it should be acknowledged that a few of  you who commented earlier have ONLY been to a couple of shows, less than a handful. So yes probably your experience is what I experienced in, say, shows#1-17!!!! Fresh exciting and new and blows your mind!  But for someone who's getting past fingers and toes...that experience is starting to feel repetitive...and well perhaps it's worth noting because there are a lot of other fans who are up their in attendance figures and it might happen to a bunch of them, too.

And, let's just be realistic. All artists grow and evolve. All artists have good, better and worse evenings. And all performances are subjective--some people may get more inspired than others on a night....although perhaps SOME shows are so darn powerful that the majority would concur that a spell was cast on a certain evening. I think it's fair for me to voice some opinions on what I think could be improved.

If I am able to 'suss out what might make a kickass show and what makes a less kickass show, isn't it a good idea to throw those ideas out in case they are helpful? I have to say that in other artistic realms or line of work, critical review is, well, critical. I've been a professional writer for 20 years (books, and articles for magazines, newspapers, online.) Every single thing that gets written is edited, not only by me, but by my editors...and often it's improved...they see things that are not obvious to me and sentences, or just a couple of words, can be tweaked to make a weak sentence into a POWERFUL one. This is no slight on my writing ability, nor any other writer's--and we all get edited a bunch...it's just the way the process works to produce the best end result. (Sometimes final edits are not the best, just the shortest, but for the most part--objective eagle eyes are helpful when an artist is only surrounded by praise and stuck in the thicket of their own work.) This applies to most things I think. To have ONLY yes men and not a maybe man, well that's not necessarily the way to keep evolving to be better is it?

I recently heard an early demo version of Pink Floyd's "Money" on Sirius. Wow, was it TERRIBLE. Whatever those record producers did, man, were they able to spot the great moments in an almost-bland song and make it an amazing amazing recording. I know that Joe's CDs go thru the same process--that one guy he loves--the producer forget his name, does cool stuff to the songs. Or Joe does, or the whole band, or all o them together. Don't know but clearly there is so critical input there that helps shape things to be better than they are to start--like those awesome Greek twinges in the greece DC. (However, I must say--WHO thought of the idea of ruining Sloe Gin on the CD by inserting that LOUD LOUD BLARING siren in the middle of it? The first time I played it I was in my car and I thought I was being chased by cops!  It ruins the spell of the song!  HOWEVER, to give that song credit --my very fave of ALL Joe songs--it's powerful everywhere else on the recording. IN fact, I played it for a friend in my car and he is a very funny guy and he was like, Oh My GOD, this is soo SAD, it makes me want to go shoot myself! (Hopefully the humor was preserved in that retelling!)

But the question is, does this objective listening and critiquing process go on with Joe's CONCERTS? Not on these fan pages--since you are not allowed to say anything negative!  Joe gets lots of hero worship (deservedly)  But what about those little subtle things that only the fans--who know this stuff so well---can contribute?  And maybe there are also words of insight to be gleaned from complete newbies because they have totally fresh ears....? Just a thought.....

And so with that thought in mind...my main critique (and really, is there something so terrible about admitting this?) is that I'm a bit bored of hearing so many of the same songs every time I go to hear Joe play. Go ahead, kill me for saying this! Tell me not to come back! Or...maybe it's a helpful observation...?...? And like I mentioned earlier? Am I going to hear the same songs (or mostly the same songs) for the next 10 years?  Can't we have WUD guitar fancy-finger-virtuosoness on a NEW song? Or a new old song? Just not the same old, same old? Is that such a terrible request? Really? I find it very exciting when Joe inserts these familiar old bits into some totally different song (like when he does Peter F) and someone once told me he stuck some YES into some song (I wasn't old enough when Yes were at their peak so never recognized that one.) Those are cool unexpected moments in a show and would be great to have more Led Zep thrown all over the place!!!!

I LOVE the 4-show-different-songs London blowout. Unfortunately I can't get over there for them! (My guess is, time not withstanding, is that would be a $3000 endeavor with plane, hotel, tickets!)

There appears to be a standard concert structure that most 'big' artists follow (from my meagre concert experience)...at a concert for a particular season, they play like 80% of the songs off their new CD and then they throw in their most famous ones...say another 3-4 songs, from previous CDs. If you're a 'true' fan, you already have that new CD by the time you go hear them and so you are excited to hear these new songs in their live format...and of course thrilled to hear the big hits of the past. But it's a new--and scintillating and exciting experience (what happens next!?!?!!!) because mostly new songs are played at each concert tour. And sometimes you do get disappointed because one of your favorites is NOT played. (I was VERY bummed when I saw Green Day 3 years ago and they did not play the ONE song on their new album that I was slathering over--Horseshoes and Handgrenades--AMAZING song! I thought for sure it would be the last song of the concert (as it kept not being played and it's the PERFECT song to do live), but nope. And that sucked.) So if JOE were NOT to play WUD or Just Got Paid or whatever, sure, some fans would be disappointed a bit...but wouldn't there be other fab stuff to make it all ok? Especially if there was a new blow-you-away song or the greatest guitar jam ever? And isn't it ok to keep people wanting more? Isn't that the point of an encore, give them some but not all by not doing more encores?

Now maybe bands like the Rolling Stones, and I can't think of many others big enough to qualify, who are old acts and have been around for decades, but still produce new stuff--maybe THEY do NOT play all their new songs because they have so many huge hits from the past 40 years and people paying HUNDREDS of dollars to see them expect the old stuff. I have not seen the Stones since the 80s so I don't know how they do it anymore. But in general, I think that is the concert formula and it must work if everyone operates that way--mostly new songs, and throw in a few oldies but goodies.

I played Pain and Sorrow in one of my spinning classes this week and one of the things that was such a cool aspect of using that song is that it gets you in a trance. And that's what I try to do in my spin classes in general--as I DJ my music selection..I want to NOT just get people pedaling their bikes and pretending to climb hills with music in the background. I want them to be carried to another place altogether by the music and then they can express the physicality of what they feel by the intensity and things we do on the bike (sprint, slow arduous climb, etc.)  One of my best cycling sprints by the way is done to the last minute of BCC Song of Yesterday--gets increasingly faster and more intense as it builds into a frenzied crescendo--MAGIC!!!! (and a great calorie burner!

I don't know if any of you are fans of SEAL. His first 5 CDs were SPECTACULAR. His voice is pure silk and velvet and more important, the guy who produced those CDs (don't remember the name, but someone famous) did something ethereal and magical to Seal's voice and the music--so listening to his early CDs is totally transformative.  NOW, this the shocking thing...when I went to hear Seal, oh about 8 years ago in NY, his concert SUCKED. But why? His every song is great, his voice is a voice among angels!!! But it fell totally flat. I was shocked.

But I figured out why. It was because after every single song he did. The music completely stopped. And he turned the lights on the audienc--bright harsh lights that made your eyes hurt. So he could see us, I guess. But every spell he managed to cast mid-song, he VIOLENTLY BROKE by doing this at the end of every single song. I had waited for years to capture the live version of the magic of his CDs. And it was a huge letdown. Yeah, his voice was good, yeah the songs were still good...but the electricity, the trance, the energy was dissipated because of this formatting mistake. (Joe is doing some cool things with lighting that def help catapult the songs to another place.)

And on the contrary, one of my favorite new bands--Wolfmother (Led Zeppelin with a beat with a PinkFloydesque undertone) are one of the most magical concert experiences ever--some people can lambast them for not being the greatest guitar players--although if you like screamy guitars you may love them--but they know how to use their music to transport you. One concert I went to at Terminal 5 in NYC was like an out of body experience---and the reason I THINK was because there was NEVER a moment of silence in between songs. They always kept one lone guitar note going so it kept people in a spell  (or me at least!) And carried them thru this awesome musical ride. And they are an extremely intense and also spacy band. I've seen them about 6ish times, although they keep breaking up, which is not good! Another band who did this and ranks as one of the best concert experiences I have ever had in my entire life--was Edie Brickell and the New Bohemions, I saw them in London in the 90s...and same things, the music NEVER stopped, an eternal note played from start to finish and their music was fairly trancelike anyway, but this made the concert experience be out of body.

This same feeling is what happens, imho, during those long guitar solos where the electric guitar (or, OK, the acoustic during WUD) just takes over your brain, body, all sensations and you go along with the music and you are in the "zone". It's almost as good as sex, no? Or akin to it in some cases. Joe does this in his guitar playing (although not in the fast bluesy ones imho! )  And when I've gotten chills at his past concerts it's because he transported me with his guitar notes...and you certainly know when the whole crowd feels it because their is an electric tingle thruout the whole place...But in Long Island, not so much--as much as I wanted it to be their (and drove a long distance in traffic from NYC for the privilege!) 

And so, I started wondering well...why? I've left Joe's concerts feeling utterly stoned in the past (without any good reason other than his electric guitar!) So why not this time? Some of it is the boredom factor...("oh this song AGAIN" and I've felt that way the last few shows, not JUST this one)..and some of it was too many musical breaks in between songs I think...and some of it was that I think the acoustic at the beginning DID not put ME, at least, in the zone to then go along for the ride...and there were fewer long electric guitar jams which are guaranteed to create that spell every time (The Led Zep buit in Just Got Paid was barely there this show.)  A loud wailing electric guitar is a surefire path to that sensation--straight deep into some crevice in the brain that triggers it, imho. I could be wrong about all these things (and I'm sure you will all let me know if I am   )

Anyway, I should probably be doing overdue writing work rather than defending myself to yall! So, back to work for me! But I hope that these comments clarify and comfort some of you at least!

Hahaha, thanks (I think!)  By the way, what is "Bonametal" in everyone's little bio on the left hand side? And also what is this Platinum, etc. member business? I'm a Bronze member it says...have no idea why or what it means or what I did to earn that?!

Number of posts is all it means. Bonametal is granted after 1,000. As you accumulate posts you'll note the change as you go over the threshold for each. No privileges or other stuff pertain.

No surely that award is our forum Sweet Sister Jane's I think the fact that Tica had it separated into paragraphs made it appear longer. Did make it easier to read that way however it was still a bit hard to follow. Since I'm a little ADD I didn't make it all the way through this one however I appreciate her effort to explain her feelings again. 

Tica sometimes we take ourselves to seriously and sometimes we have a little fun. I think there is a little of both going on. I will agree there is a whole lot of group think going on here because as a group we are some serious Joe fans and we think he is pretty damn good.

As you can see Joe reads and responds at times to things said here. He is very in tune with his fan's both the ones that may only say and post positive things he does want to here critiques too. However he must go the direction his compass tells him and even though he has trusted people who give solicited and unsolicited advice, at the end of the day he makes the decisions. Again you can't please everybody. I'm sure he wishes he could.

Now I quit offering advise a long time ago because he never took it and he has done pretty well doing it his way so I finally resigned myself to just watching him grow both as an artist and in popularity. He is doing OK in spite of what we think.

Tica,
No need to be defensive...yeah, most people here are very passionate about Joe and his music but, in general, are pretty open minded to an intelligent critique (which you gave). There have been lots of posts and opinions on Joes set list...everybody has an opinion, but I realized a long time ago, there's only one opinion that counts...and it ain't mine.