73 Reply by Carol-Ann_Amps (edited by Carol-Ann_Amps 2012-10-29 07:39:22)

  • Registered: 2007-09-03
  • Posts: 36

Re: Joe's New Rig

Joe Bonamassa wrote:

Well, its end of day one... The rig sounds great... All vintage Marshall amps and a Freidman Dirty Shirley 100..  It is the first one made in a 100 watt format.   The speakers are all 25 watt green backs...  It is much simpler than my old 4 head switching rig..  All cabinets are active but only two heads are on..  Tomorrow we button up the cabling and make the final decisions.. 
Joe B


The reasons you changed to EV's in the first place haven't got better. 50W or 100W doesn't make that much difference in destructive power or sound pressure level really. Apart from fragility from these speakers being such a low power rating , cone cry is the major bug bear if you are still pushing hard in to the power amp section. On a Les Paul B String 14th to 18th fret and G string 4th to 9th fret are the most problematic areas when detuned a semi-tone. Symptoms as I'm sure you willhave experienced at times in the past  are dischordal ghost notes that many wrongly think are the amps power supply  and notes that just drop out with no sustain as if you've just muted them. In the days all speakers were hand made entirely the inconsistency meant the frequencies of cone cry varied from speaker to speaker and in a 4x12 it was not ever that noticeable. Now they are all made to exacting standards by machine so the cone cry always happens at the same frequencies and  in a 4x12 with new speakers it's more noticeable than an old cabinet with old speakers. There is trick to helping this out, but I'm not posting it up here and being responsible for people killing their speakers as it seems quite drastic, but it does work.
For 99% of guitar players they will rarely ever play at the volumes this is an issue, unless they are using an amp with a very stout power supply and a fast transient response. I have a 30W model that can exhibit cone cry in a 65W speaker at moderate club gigging volumes.

THe 12L is the only guitar speaker in the world that will not exhibit cone cry in these areas when pushed hard, even with a 150W amp.
I've tried over 70 different speakers. The strongest current Celestion guitar speaker is the Classic Lead 80 and that still falls a ways behind the 12L for cone cry.
Celestion made a speaker for the Ampeg VL series years ago  that was similar to the EV. It sounded like an old Celestion but had the strength of a 12L. I have tried to get the Celestion rep. to dig out that design a reconsider it.

Will catch up with you in Novemeber at Springfield. Hope all is well.

Kind Regards, Alan.

74 Reply by DaveWammbarro (edited by DaveWammbarro 2012-10-29 08:08:37)

  • From: N.Wales, UK
  • Registered: 2009-03-06
  • Posts: 2,183

Re: Joe's New Rig

Carol-Ann_Amps wrote:

There is trick to helping this out, but I'm not posting it up here and being responsible for people killing their speakers as it seems quite drastic, but it does work.

...but I want to know now! Haha..

  • From: over yonder....in PA
  • Registered: 2009-02-09
  • Posts: 240

Re: Joe's New Rig

I'm eagerly awaiting the announcement of the MXR "Fet Driver"

"The way I like to look at it is....if that's the last time I ever got to play, I'd better give it everything I've got." -SRV
  • From: Detroit
  • Registered: 2006-06-02
  • Posts: 5,807

Re: Joe's New Rig

Carol-Ann_Amps wrote:

THe 12L is the only guitar speaker in the world that will not exhibit cone cry in these areas when pushed hard, even with a 150W amp.
I've tried over 70 different speakers. The strongest current Celestion guitar speaker is the Classic Lead 80 and that still falls a ways behind the 12L for cone cry.

Will catch up with you in Novemeber at Springfield. Hope all is well.

Kind Regards, Alan.

I will probably never play that loud. BUT.... For the sound, I will kill my back at every gig carrying my EVM12L-Black Label speakers to and from gigs. No wheels... just grunts and sometimes help from a good Samaritan. cool

- Nic from Detroit... posting on JB's Forum since 6-2-2006
Ask me about my handwound Great Lakes Guitar Pickups
Since 2010, Bonamassa fans have taken advantage of my JB friend discount = my cost + shipping. cool
  • From: North Carolina
  • Registered: 2008-10-26
  • Posts: 2,926

Re: Joe's New Rig

I always thought you could mic anything and make it work.  But when I took a Vox TV4 to one of our last gigs I couldn't hear nothing really and it would sound great for leads but the amp sounded like a fuzz pedal when I'd turn my les paul down.  It was rough.  But packing up was nice!

NPB_EST.1979 wrote:
Carol-Ann_Amps wrote:

THe 12L is the only guitar speaker in the world that will not exhibit cone cry in these areas when pushed hard, even with a 150W amp.
I've tried over 70 different speakers. The strongest current Celestion guitar speaker is the Classic Lead 80 and that still falls a ways behind the 12L for cone cry.

Will catch up with you in Novemeber at Springfield. Hope all is well.

Kind Regards, Alan.

I will probably never play that loud. BUT.... For the sound, I will kill my back at every gig carrying my EVM12L-Black Label speakers to and from gigs. No wheels... just grunts and sometimes help from a good Samaritan. cool

AD3THREE's Website

  • Registered: 2010-09-30
  • Posts: 163

Re: Joe's New Rig

To be honest, I was always a bit surprised theat Joe played EV12L's as I, personally, never warmed up to these speakers sound wise for those types of tones. They always sounded a bit too "DI" like to my ears and felt a bit stiff to my hands. Greenbacks, despite their lower power handling, make more sense to me for a more midrange focussed, vintage inspired tone.

G12H30's, G12-65's, and Golds are a few others that I could see folks looking for similar types of guitar tones experimenting with.

Just my $0.02 and no offense to any and all that love their EV's.

79 Reply by Carol-Ann_Amps (edited by Carol-Ann_Amps 2012-10-29 16:58:31)

  • Registered: 2007-09-03
  • Posts: 36

Re: Joe's New Rig

Zen Guitar wrote:

To be honest, I was always a bit surprised theat Joe played EV12L's as I, personally, never warmed up to these speakers sound wise for those types of tones. They always sounded a bit too "DI" like to my ears and felt a bit stiff to my hands. Greenbacks, despite their lower power handling, make more sense to me for a more midrange focussed, vintage inspired tone.

G12H30's, G12-65's, and Golds are a few others that I could see folks looking for similar types of guitar tones experimenting with.

Just my $0.02 and no offense to any and all that love their EV's.

It depends what you are using them for. I build amps to work with them. The speaker is one part of an entire signal chain that begins with your hands. To say you don't like one thing in an isolated fashion is fine, but not really big picture. You never really qualified your point with what you tried it in, playing situation, style etc.

Would you say all of Joes recording and his live sound to this point were stiff or DI ? I think not, listen to the Ballad of JH CD again. Some of the warmest guitar tones ever put down on track anywhere. Period.

I just think in a touring situation where the amps are run to the redline pretty much, EV's are practically the only indestructive speaker there is.

You will suprised just how many Marshall cabs you see on big stages that are filled with EV's.
Some players you probably wouldn't expect too. It's one of those things  that quietly just happen in many cases and people are left to assume based on what is visible on the backline.

I'm not saying this because I have some deal with EV, the opposite, they are a nightmare to deal with if you buying in smaller quantities and expensive to boot. The guys at Celestion are awesome and much easier to deal with and I WISH they would release a speaker that handles what the 12L does. I would be all over it. Joe has the power to push something like this better than even I have.

Alan Phillips
Carol-Ann Amps

80 Reply by cindyron (edited by cindyron 2012-10-29 17:09:21)

  • From: New Hampshire, USA
  • Registered: 2010-12-21
  • Posts: 3,650

Re: Joe's New Rig

Carol-Ann_Amps wrote:
Zen Guitar wrote:

To be honest, I was always a bit surprised theat Joe played EV12L's as I, personally, never warmed up to these speakers sound wise for those types of tones. They always sounded a bit too "DI" like to my ears and felt a bit stiff to my hands. Greenbacks, despite their lower power handling, make more sense to me for a more midrange focussed, vintage inspired tone.

G12H30's, G12-65's, and Golds are a few others that I could see folks looking for similar types of guitar tones experimenting with.

Just my $0.02 and no offense to any and all that love their EV's.

It depends what you are using them for. I build amps to work with them. The speaker is one part of an entire signal chain that begins with your hands. To say you don't like one thing in an isolated fashion is fine, but not really big picture. You never really qualified your point with what you tried it in, playing situation, style etc.

Would you say all of Joes recording and his live sound to this point were stiff or DI ? I think not, listen to the Ballad of JH CD again. Some of the warmest guitar tones ever put down on track anywhere. Period.

I just think in a touring situation where the amps are run to the redline pretty much, EV's are practically the only indestructive speaker there is.

You will suprised just how many Marshall cabs you see on big stages that are filled with EV's.
Some players you probably wouldn't expect too. It's one of those things  that quietly just happen in many cases and people are left to assume based on what is visible on the backline.

I'm not saying this because I have some deal with EV, the opposite, they are a nightmare to deal with if you buying in smaller quantities and expensive to boot. The guys at Celestion are awesome and much easier to deal with and I WISH they would release a speaker that handles what the 12L does. I would be all over it. Joe has the power to push something like this better than even I have.

Alan Phillips
Carol-Ann Amps

YES JH Cd is awesome, I have tried many speakers and for me even thought it would only be in my dreams that I get to play as load as Joe I love the tone that comes out of EV's even at low volumes. I hear the true tone of the Amp and guitar. Grant it if you use other speakers there break up can to some be an appealing addition to the tone but as you increase volume it is just another variable i would not want to deal with. So for me EV12's all the way. A perfect match with my Carol Ann's wink

"Joe B saved my soul, forever grateful Ron"
"Some people dream of worthy accomplishments while others stay awake and do them"
Skinner #1,JBLP 145(aged),252, (unaged),#285HM, Bburst #026, Joes 052 BCC black LP, Strat> RT,EC Gilmour,Beck,Lenny LP> PK 83,CC#2,3,4,9,Amps>Carol Ann RAH JB-100 SN 001,JB100 Red SN02,OD2, OD3,Tucana 2&3 Triptix,Twinkle land, Plexi ,JB Jub, Jubs,Plexi,Satch,Two Rock>others
  • Registered: 2010-09-30
  • Posts: 163

Re: Joe's New Rig

Hi Alan,

You make valid points and I totally agree with what you're saying about treating a guitar rig as a system rather than individual parts. For the record, I really love Joe's tones (and his playing even more so!), which is why his use of EV12L's surprised me so much (from a tone standpoint, not from a durability/power handling standpoint--that part makes perfect sense). His expressed thoughts of going for a big, midrangey, top rolled off kind of tone seemed to match what we've all heard in his tones, but not my personal notion of the EV's. I've tried them with different amps, but other speakers just always seemed to be a better match for my tastes. Now, if I played as loud as Joe does every night, etc, I might have looked into how to make these work, but I've never had speaker failure issues (knock on wood), so I just have selected my drivers based on the tone and response that I prefer. Hope that makes sense... As I said, no offense to anyone else who uses/loves these... Just my $0.02.  ;-)

82 Reply by scorpion-70 (edited by scorpion-70 2012-10-31 15:20:52)

  • Registered: 2012-10-16
  • Posts: 182

Re: Joe's New Rig

I would like to hear that rig but....no gig on Finland this tour ..?

Women, whiskey and miles of travelin' is all I understand
  • From: Fairfax, VA
  • Registered: 2009-09-11
  • Posts: 1,337

Re: Joe's New Rig

New rig in Dallas
http://www.lespaulforum.com/forum/showp … stcount=16

and pedal board
http://www.lespaulforum.com/forum/showp … stcount=18

Jim

ES-335 #37
Pictures http://www.flickr.com/photos/jclark42796/sets/
More pictures https://picasaweb.google.com/114580443759038003888/
  • From: North Carolina
  • Registered: 2008-10-26
  • Posts: 2,926

Re: Joe's New Rig

Where did the floor isolation pads go?  At one point Joe said this was a major part of his rig because it always meant that his cabs were exposed to the same acoustics.  Change of mind about his?  Or maybe those 25 watt speakers to put out as many dB's to need it.

AD3THREE's Website

  • Registered: 2011-02-25
  • Posts: 127

Re: Joe's New Rig

After trying lots of amps in my life I settled on 50w Marshall NMV's.
Favorite speakers are Celestion Heritage G12M-65's.
Had a Jubilee, sold it. It really doesn't give classic Marshall tone.

  • rpic
  • Titanium
  • Offline
  • From: Sonoma, Ca.
  • Registered: 2006-08-16
  • Posts: 852

Re: Joe's New Rig

jclark42796 wrote:

New rig in Dallas
http://www.lespaulforum.com/forum/showp … stcount=16

and pedal board
http://www.lespaulforum.com/forum/showp … stcount=18

Jim


I kept waiting for those things to pop out and they never did.

  • From: York, PA
  • Registered: 2010-08-27
  • Posts: 1,749

Re: Joe's New Rig

Joe Bonamassa wrote:

The rack is gone....

I still see a rack behind the amps? Thought maybe rack would change to a smaller housing with just a Power Conditioner, the Palmer and maybe a tuner or drawer or something. Either way, new setup is way cool. -Seth

  • From: N.Wales, UK
  • Registered: 2009-03-06
  • Posts: 2,183

Re: Joe's New Rig

There are dozens of cool speakers out there. The EV aren't the be all end all.
Same that a Les Paul is not the be all end all.
Nor 11-52 strings.
You don't always need a wet/dry rig with reverb and delay...


Have fun and find some good tones for you...there is so much to try out there.

  • RickB
  • RickB
  • BONAMEGAMETAL
  • Offline
  • From: San Diego
  • Registered: 2009-10-30
  • Posts: 12,198

Re: Joe's New Rig

I've heard him play a bunch of different rigs from small to huge and it always sounds like JoeB. big_smile
Rick

Free download from Vienna! http://mbsy.co/bNLR
Lots of unique videos of Joe http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwd5vL8fXTw
Buy Joe's merchandise here. http://www.jbonamassa.com/affiliates/id … hp?id=1381

RickB's Website

  • Registered: 2012-10-16
  • Posts: 182

Re: Joe's New Rig

Joe is like Santana, Jimmy Page..Gary Moore. You know who's playing without see the player...

Women, whiskey and miles of travelin' is all I understand